# The Republicans have worse problems than the Democrats in the POTUS race. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 3, 2015, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republicans-have-worse-problems-than-the-democrats-in-the-potus-race/729812 "2015-09-03T14:12:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republicans-have-worse-problems-than-the-democrats-in-the-potus-race/729812/21 "2015-09-04T11:27:07Z")
“PRESUMABLY trustworthy candidate” That’s an awful lot to presume, I think. Got anyone in mind, in particular that you feel we can make such a presumption about? Which GOP candidate leads for trustworthiness in your view? Just curious! ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republicans-have-worse-problems-than-the-democrats-in-the-potus-race/729812/22 "2015-09-04T16:43:05Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > Things like wanting to repeal birthright citizenship, discrimination against the LGBT community, even repealing Obamacare, seem like they are now loosing issues. In the past they might have been winning issues, but now it seems these are no longer winning issues. So basically we have the Democrats running on winning issues with a seemingly untrustworthy candidate, and Republicans running on loosing issues with a presumably trustworthy candidate, whoever it might turn out to be. Do I have this about right, or have I made some flawed assumptions? [Obamacare is unpopular.](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html) Opposing it should be a winning issue for Republicans; clinging to it should be a losing issue for Democrats. Regarding discrimination against they gay community, the top issue is whether private businesses should be forced to cater or serve at gay weddings, even when the owners wish not to. [Most Americans believe they should not be forced to do so](http://libertyfirstnews.com/poll-most-americans-support-businesses-being-allowed-to-discriminate-against-gay-couples/). There are other losing issues for Democrats that could be named: [ul] [li]Democrats oppose construction of the Keystone XL Pipeline. Most Americans are in favor of it.[/li][li]Democrats support the deal with Iran. [Most Americans oppose it](http://www.quinnipiac.edu/images/polling/us/us08032015_U76afgy.pdf).[/li][li]Democrats support the corn ethanol mandate (or at least Hillary does). Most Americans oppose it.[/li][li]Democrats oppose Right to Work laws. Most voters [favor](http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/article/2015/feb/23/sorting-out-public-opinion-right-work-laws/) them.[/li][li]Democrats oppose school vouchers. Most voters support vouchers.[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republicans-have-worse-problems-than-the-democrats-in-the-potus-race/729812/23 "2015-09-04T16:51:25Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > [Obamacare is unpopular.](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html) Opposing it should be a winning issue for Republicans; clinging to it should be a losing issue for Democrats. Right. If only in 2012 Republicans had opposed Obamacare, then Romney might be President today. Maybe they should vote in Congress to repeal it! That would really send a message, wouldn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republicans-have-worse-problems-than-the-democrats-in-the-potus-race/729812/24 "2015-09-04T17:01:26Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > [li]Democrats oppose school vouchers. Most voters support vouchers.[/li][/LIST] Is this true? I wasn’t aware. (the first part) ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republicans-have-worse-problems-than-the-democrats-in-the-potus-race/729812/25 "2015-09-04T17:47:40Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > [Obamacare is unpopular.](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html) Opposing it should be a winning issue for Republicans; clinging to it should be a losing issue for Democrats. I don’t think opposing it or even repealing it is a winning position unless you’ve proposed something not only better to replace it but also with a clear direction that aims to narrow the gap in health care between the U.S. and nations that are outperforming us. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republicans-have-worse-problems-than-the-democrats-in-the-potus-race/729812/26 "2015-09-04T17:55:25Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Right. If only in 2012 Republicans had opposed Obamacare, then Romney might be President today. > > Maybe they should vote in Congress to repeal it! That would really send a message, wouldn’t it? It’s never worked before. But that’s no reason not to repeat the action again & again. And again… ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republicans-have-worse-problems-than-the-democrats-in-the-potus-race/729812/27 "2015-09-04T18:08:28Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > It’s never worked before. But that’s no reason not to repeat the action again & again. And again… [“This time for sure!”](https://notapunkrocker.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/wpid-bullwinkle28.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republicans-have-worse-problems-than-the-democrats-in-the-potus-race/729812/28 "2015-09-04T19:29:32Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Not only that, but these Republican positions are growing more losing over time. > > When you look at polling data on these issues by age, you see that the Republican position is strongest in the elderly group, with decreasing support as you go to younger ages. And when you look at race – white people vs. minority. Or gender – male vs. female. the more you are old, white, and male, the more likely you are to support these Republican positions. > > But older people are dying off, minorities are raising more children than whites, and women live longer. So as time goes on, the voting population will lean more toward the Democratic positions than the Republican ones, and these will become even more losing positions. > > [As a solid (but now older) Democrat, I approve of this message!] Of course, there is the observation to be made that as voters grow older, they tend over time to skew more conservative, so you can’t trust “once a young liberal, always a young liberal”. Current research I’m aware of does not tend to support that observation,however. See: ([The politics of American generations: How age affects attitudes and voting behavior | Pew Research Center](http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/07/09/the-politics-of-american-generations-how-age-affects-attitudes-and-voting-behavior/)) Anecdotally, many of my hippy-era friends and relatives apparently voted for Romney.\* My\* politics, of course, remain as idealistic and unsullied as ever. I’d vote for Bernie first, but any Dem over any of the Rs. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republicans-have-worse-problems-than-the-democrats-in-the-potus-race/729812/29 "2015-09-04T19:37:40Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > “PRESUMABLY trustworthy candidate” > > That’s an awful lot to presume, I think. Got anyone in mind, in particular that you feel we can make such a presumption about? Which GOP candidate leads for trustworthiness in your view? Just curious! Well [let’s see](http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2274): The untrustworthy/trustworthy numbers: Clinton: 61/34 (!) Trump: 54/38 Biden: 33/56 Bush: 39/48 Rubio: 28/49 So Rubio leads in trustworthiness, according to that poll. Clinton definitely scores worse than anyone. When people were asked to come up with first word that comes to mind when thinking of Hillary Clinton, the top 3 words were: “liar”, “dishonest” and “untrustworthy”. While for Trump “honest” was 6th, and for Bush “honest” was 3rd. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republicans-have-worse-problems-than-the-democrats-in-the-potus-race/729812/30 "2015-09-04T20:33:29Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > [Obamacare is unpopular.](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html) Opposing it should be a winning issue for Republicans; clinging to it should be a losing issue for Democrats. Like its been said many many many times, Americans “oppose” the health care law in that some of us thinks it doesn’t go far enough. If the only options presented to me was like/dislike, I’d like it. But if it was like/dislike/replace, I’d check to replace it with single payer government-run health care like every other civilized country has. Plus, Obamacase is a dead issue, its been won, its a non-starter anymore. Everyone who likes it will continue to like it and, unfortunately for you, some people who dislike it will end up liking it once they realize it helps them. > [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Regarding discrimination against they gay community, the top issue is whether private businesses should be forced to cater or serve at gay weddings, even when the owners wish not to. [Most Americans believe they should not be forced to do so](http://libertyfirstnews.com/poll-most-americans-support-businesses-being-allowed-to-discriminate-against-gay-couples/). Yeah, and it took [30 years](https://xkcd.com/1431/) after interracial marriage was forced on Americans before a majority of them approved it. I’m very happy that bigots are being forced to pretend their secular business who takes money from atheists, adulterers, and Muslims are suddenly churches and losing in the courts ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republicans-have-worse-problems-than-the-democrats-in-the-potus-race/729812/31 "2015-09-04T20:57:56Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > I think most voters (among those who would ever consider voting for a Democrat anyway) understand the manufactured nature and lack of substance of all of them, and are willing to punish the creators for their lies. > > Somebody here said it, “Where there’s smoke, there’s often a smoke generator.” And with only “most voters among those who would ever consider voting for a Democrat,” do you get to 50% of the general election vote? No. You get ~38%. That’s great for a GOP blowout. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republicans-have-worse-problems-than-the-democrats-in-the-potus-race/729812/32 "2015-09-04T22:17:12Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > [Obamacare is unpopular.](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html) Opposing it should be a winning issue for Republicans; clinging to it should be a losing issue for Democrats. Bernie Sanders, for one, wants to replace Obamacare with single-payer. What’s the GOP plan again? > [@](#): > > Regarding discrimination against they gay community, the top issue is whether private businesses should be forced to cater or serve at gay weddings, even when the owners wish not to. [Most Americans believe they should not be forced to do so](http://libertyfirstnews.com/poll-most-americans-support-businesses-being-allowed-to-discriminate-against-gay-couples/). And most Democratic pols will probably go with the people on that. > [@](#): > > Democrats oppose construction of the Keystone XL Pipeline. Most Americans are in favor of it. Is that most Americans who live in the region it would run through? I don’t have those numbers, but I wonder. We put up with a lot of pollution in the central US, but a major dilbit leak into our aquifers might be too much. > [@](#): > > Democrats support the deal with Iran. [Most Americans oppose it](http://www.quinnipiac.edu/images/polling/us/us08032015_U76afgy.pdf). Huh, maybe. But to the point of voting based on it? If it’s a choice between a deal or a war, what’s the tally then? > [@](#): > > Democrats support the corn ethanol mandate (or at least Hillary does). Most Americans oppose it. And that vote is a winner in certain places and neutral most places, I expect. > [@](#): > > Democrats oppose Right to Work laws. Most voters [favor](http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/article/2015/feb/23/sorting-out-public-opinion-right-work-laws/) them. Yes, the Democrats are a labor-union party. So what? Do most Americans favor everything on the GOP wishlist? > [@](#): > > Democrats oppose school vouchers. Most voters support vouchers. Well, there’s a lot of difference of opinion within the Democratic Party there. This is all over the place. Are voters really going to vote based on these issues? Maybe. But I expect the Democrats _gain_ votes based on these “unpopular” positions, because the people who want these things are more motivated than the ones that don’t. You know, it’s kind of like how Republicans court the anti-birth-control and anti-net-neutrality factions. The most popular position isn’t always the strategic position for a careerist; it can be more strategic to take the position which gives you allies and donors. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republicans-have-worse-problems-than-the-democrats-in-the-potus-race/729812/33 "2015-09-04T22:33:18Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > But to the point of voting based on it? If it’s a choice between a deal or a war, what’s the tally then? That’s a false choice. If it’s true though, then doesn’t that mean Obama will be leading us to war should Iran cheat or just decide to reject the deal? But anyway, on foreign policy it’s never just one issue that people vote on. What actually ends up happening is that the Democrats call the Republicans warmongers and the Republicans call the Democrats weak, with “betrayal of allies” being a particularly useful attack. The Republicans have historically won on this issue when they go on the attack, and the polling for Obama on foreign affairs is ugly. [http://pollingreport.com/obama\_ad.htm](http://pollingreport.com/obama_ad.htm) > [@](#): > > This is all over the place. Are voters really going to vote based on these issues? Maybe. But I expect the Democrats _gain_ votes based on these “unpopular” positions, because the people who want these things are more motivated than the ones that don’t. I think ITR’s point was just to show that Republicans have advantages on a lot of issues, and are regaining advantages on issues that Democrats had neutralized before Obama, such as foreign policy and crime. Yes, the REpublicans are to the right of Americans on many social issues. What liberals forget though, is that Republicans have been in that place since the Reagan Revolution. The Republican Party always positions itself significantly right of the public on social issues. The GOP’s relative positioning is the same as it has always been. Who wins the election will of course come down to fundamentals, but it will also come down to what issues concern Americans most. If the big issues are things where Republicans have an advantage, they’ll win. ---
**Author:** ![zoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/71c47a/32.png) [@zoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoo)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republicans-have-worse-problems-than-the-democrats-in-the-potus-race/729812/34 "2015-09-04T23:02:40Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > But anyway, on foreign policy it’s never just one issue that people vote on. What actually ends up happening is that the Democrats call the Republicans warmongers and the Republicans call the Democrats weak, with “betrayal of allies” being a particularly useful attack. The Republicans have historically won on this issue when they go on the attack, and the polling for Obama on foreign affairs is ugly. Of course the “betrayal of allies” in this case is if we back out of the deal. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republicans-have-worse-problems-than-the-democrats-in-the-potus-race/729812/35 "2015-09-04T23:19:03Z")
Some allies. Mainly the ones least affected by Iran. ---
**Author:** ![zoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/71c47a/32.png) [@zoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoo)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republicans-have-worse-problems-than-the-democrats-in-the-potus-race/729812/36 "2015-09-04T23:54:31Z")
“Some” being everybody but the Israeli government. Even the Saudis are coming on board. ---
**Author:** ![Pashnish\_Ewing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8797f3/32.png) [@Pashnish\_Ewing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pashnish_Ewing)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republicans-have-worse-problems-than-the-democrats-in-the-potus-race/729812/37 "2015-09-05T00:48:01Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If the big issues are things where Republicans have an advantage, they’ll win. You know, there is the little issue of putting up a GOP candidate that people will _actually_ vote for. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republicans-have-worse-problems-than-the-democrats-in-the-potus-race/729812/38 "2015-09-05T02:01:41Z")
Right now that’s more the Democrats’ problem. Their frontrunner is polling nearly as badly as Trump now. The difference is that we all know Trump won’t be our nominee. If the Democrats nominate a candidate with a 36% favorability rating then it would be hard for Republicans to NOT pick someone acceptable by comparison. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republicans-have-worse-problems-than-the-democrats-in-the-potus-race/729812/39 "2015-09-05T02:03:14Z")
Names, you so often shy away from giving us names. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republicans-have-worse-problems-than-the-democrats-in-the-potus-race/729812/40 "2015-09-05T02:04:23Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Right now that’s more the Democrats’ problem. Their frontrunner is polling nearly as badly as Trump now. The difference is that we all know Trump won’t be our nominee. > > If the Democrats nominate a candidate with a 36% favorability rating then it would be hard for Republicans to NOT pick someone acceptable by comparison. Considering the Republicans in question, this will actually be really easy. IMO at least [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republicans-have-worse-problems-than-the-democrats-in-the-potus-race/729812.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republicans-have-worse-problems-than-the-democrats-in-the-potus-race/729812.md?page=3)