# The repugs want to see your tax return. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 21, 2004, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repugs-want-to-see-your-tax-return/275912 "2004-11-21T04:31:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2004, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repugs-want-to-see-your-tax-return/275912/1 "2004-11-21T04:31:46Z")
> [@](#): > > WASHINGTON (AP) - Congress passed legislation Saturday giving two committee chairman and their assistants access to income tax returns without regard to privacy protections, but not before red-faced Republicans said it was all a mistake and would be swiftly repealed. > > The Senate unanimously adopted a resolution immediately after passing a 3,300-word spending bill containing the measure, saying the provision ``shall have no effect.’’ House leaders promised to pass the resolution next Wednesday. > > ``We’re going to get that done,’’ said John Feehery, a spokesman for House Speaker Dennis Hastert. > **[Latest news from around the world | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/world)** > > Latest World news news, comment and analysis from the Guardian, the world's leading liberal voice Right…A mistake. How does something get put into a bill by accident?? Get used to it people. Things like this are going to happen over and over again for at least the next two years. I agree that once they got caught the changed it. But what if they hadn’t got caught? ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2004, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repugs-want-to-see-your-tax-return/275912/2 "2004-11-21T05:26:09Z")
Um…er…I think it’s…that is to say… ah fuck it… :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2004, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repugs-want-to-see-your-tax-return/275912/3 "2004-11-21T06:08:05Z")
I would just like to note for the record that while the Republicans are professing innocence and the Democrats are pointing fingers, nobody is really sure who did what here. It could be that the Republicans actually tried to get away with something like this. It could be that a Democrat managed to slip it in to put some egg on the faces of the Republicans, or even to kill the bill. I’m not rushing to judgment on this one just yet, except to say that whoever put it in was pretty despicable. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2004, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repugs-want-to-see-your-tax-return/275912/4 "2004-11-21T06:19:54Z")
As Michael Moore demonstarted in his latest film, lawmakers often don’t \*read \* the bills they are voting on. Someone tried to take advantage of it. All deserve a boot to the head for not reading them. ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2004, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repugs-want-to-see-your-tax-return/275912/5 "2004-11-21T08:47:31Z")
The spending bill is 14 inches thick! I bet there’s a rider in there declaring President Bush legally dead 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2004, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repugs-want-to-see-your-tax-return/275912/6 "2004-11-21T10:54:01Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > I would just like to note for the record that while the Republicans are professing innocence and the Democrats are pointing fingers, nobody is really sure who did what here. Not so. It was [Congressman Ernest Istook (R-OK)](http://www.house.gov/istook/) > [@](#): > > [Tax Disclosure Buried in Spending Bill > Sunday November 21, 2004 2:46 AM > By MATT YANCEY > Associated Press Writer](http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4628320,00.html) > > "There will be no window where this will be law,’’ Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist said. He referred to the provision as the Istook amendment and congressional aides said it was put in the bill at the request of Rep. Ernest Istook Jr., chairman of the House Appropriations Committee’s transportation subcommittee. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2004, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repugs-want-to-see-your-tax-return/275912/7 "2004-11-21T11:04:24Z")
> [@Desmostylus](#): > > Not so. It was [Congressman Ernest Istook (R-OK)](http://www.house.gov/istook/) It’s good to know. Now we have a subject for our ire. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2004, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repugs-want-to-see-your-tax-return/275912/8 "2004-11-21T21:28:50Z")
If y’all believe that this Istook, an unknown congressman from OK, took it upon himself to insert this into this bill, I just have one thing to say… Y’all wanna buy a bridge? ---
**Author:** ![BJMoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@BJMoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BJMoose)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2004, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repugs-want-to-see-your-tax-return/275912/9 "2004-11-22T19:07:07Z")
Important technical question here: Can Congress repeal part of a bill merely by passing a resolution? ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repugs-want-to-see-your-tax-return/275912/10 "2004-11-23T01:20:32Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > If y’all believe that this Istook, an unknown congressman from OK, took it upon himself to insert this into this bill, I just have one thing to say… > > Y’all wanna buy a bridge? I can almost believe it. Istook was one of those Gingrich Republicans who came in trying to reform America. He wasn’t unknown. He’s just ultra conservative. ---
**Author:** ![pervert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bbe5ce/32.png) [@pervert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pervert)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repugs-want-to-see-your-tax-return/275912/11 "2004-11-23T01:33:18Z")
Does anyone have access to the language in question? Is it possible that someone simply wanted the chairmen of these committees to have access to real records and put it in such a way as to break privacy provisions? From the articles I am not even sure exactly what the objection is refering to. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repugs-want-to-see-your-tax-return/275912/12 "2004-11-23T01:37:21Z")
> [@BJMoose](#): > > Important technical question here: > > Can Congress repeal part of a bill merely by passing a resolution? Apparently what’s at work here is, that since the Appropriations Bill is NOT yet Law [sub]“I’m just a bill, only a bill…”[/sub], they are deciding that _rather than a motion to reconsider_ which requires consent from the other chamber and would reopen the whole freakin’ monster, they’ll pass joint resolutions _before_ the bill is sent up Penna. Ave., to leave without effect that part of the _bill_ language. Must be some US-Congress kind of thing, never heard of it before – here at the commonwealth level if you catch an “oopsie” in a bill after final vote but before sending it to the Exec, you have to have a motion to reconsider (but you have a maximum number of those you can use). ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repugs-want-to-see-your-tax-return/275912/13 "2004-11-23T01:42:28Z")
> [@pervert](#): > > Does anyone have access to the language in question? > [@](#): > > The exact language of the provision is as follows … > > ``` > "Hereinafter, notwithstanding any other provision of law governing the disclosure of income tax returns or return information, upon written request of the Chairman of the House or Senate Committee on Appropriations, the Commissioner of the Internal Revenue Service shall allow agents designated by such Chairman access to Internal Revenue Service facilities and any tax returns or return information contained therein." > > ``` [From Talking Points Memo](http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2004_11_14.php#004074) ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repugs-want-to-see-your-tax-return/275912/14 "2004-11-23T02:58:19Z")
“Hereinafter, notwithstanding any other provision of law governing the disclosure of income tax returns or return information, upon written request of the Chairman of the House or Senate Committee on Appropriations, the Commissioner of the Internal Revenue Service shall allow **agents** designated by such Chairman access to Internal Revenue Service facilities and any tax returns or return information contained therein.” I think the key word is agents. That could be anyone from the chairman himself, to his brothers second cousins wifes hairdresser. You get my drift. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repugs-want-to-see-your-tax-return/275912/15 "2004-11-23T03:52:04Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > I think the key word is agents. Absolutely, as it’s worded, they could delegate the power to their PACs. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repugs-want-to-see-your-tax-return/275912/16 "2004-11-23T05:23:20Z")
According to the news reports I heard, this was discovered by a congressman’s staff when they read through the 3,000 page legislation. It was at about page 1,200. My impression is that many times members of the House and senators vote on bills without ever having read them carefully, if at all. So what other surprises were in this bill? And how often does something like this happen? ---
**Author:** ![Asylum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@Asylum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asylum)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repugs-want-to-see-your-tax-return/275912/17 "2004-11-23T06:00:31Z")
> [@Desmostylus](#): > > Not so. It was [Congressman Ernest Istook (R-OK)](http://www.house.gov/istook/) [Istook is denying it](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A5738-2004Nov22_2.html). Claims he has no idea how his name got attached to it. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repugs-want-to-see-your-tax-return/275912/18 "2004-11-23T06:12:34Z")
> [@Asylum](#): > > [Istook is denying it](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A5738-2004Nov22_2.html). Claims he has no idea how his name got attached to it. Good lord. And we voted to keep these people in power. Come on Brutus, Sam, Bricker… defend this shit. I dare you. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repugs-want-to-see-your-tax-return/275912/19 "2004-11-23T06:15:56Z")
> [@Dewey Finn](#): > > So what other surprises were in this bill? Take a look at **Asylum** ’s link above. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repugs-want-to-see-your-tax-return/275912/20 "2004-11-23T13:15:55Z")
The truth IS, that on all but the most straightforward simple bills, a majority of legislators (all levels) do NOT stop to read the whole things, specially appropriations. Which is fine because you’d never get a modern budget for anything larger than a village passed if they did. (Besides, if you read the whole bill and end up not understanding jacksquat – which if you look at some bills is not that difficult to imagine – it’s the same as not reading it, plus you just wasted a whole weekend) Mostly, those who are not members of the relevant committee will rely on the _report_ from the committee (or from their ranking member, if in the minority) to decide on how to vote on the floor – and damn many of them rely on one of their staffers doing for them an exec summary _of_ the report. If they have a particular area-of-interest they may read up the bits that are about that and make their turn at debate be on that specific issue. It’s how it’s supposed to work; but there ARE supposed to be people in charge of looking out for things like the subject of the OP. Now, a committee chairman or floor leader or whip who makes a habit of _gratuituously_ pulling legislative stunts or _allowing_ them to pass uncalled, will wind up removed from their position, or at least losing credibility to the point they’re rendered ineffective (as in, people WILL start reading everything that comes from/through them before taking any action) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repugs-want-to-see-your-tax-return/275912.md?page=2)