# The restaurant tab conundrum. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 8, 2020, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-restaurant-tab-conundrum/846132 "2020-01-08T17:51:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-restaurant-tab-conundrum/846132/41 "2020-01-08T22:41:27Z")
By the way, it’s illegal in the US for the restaurant to deduct any shortages from the waitress. [https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/15-flsa-tipped-employees](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/15-flsa-tipped-employees) > [@](#): > > Where deductions for walk-outs, breakage, or cash register shortages reduce the employee’s wages below the minimum wage, such deductions are illegal. Where a tipped employee is paid $2.13 per hour in direct (or cash) wages and the employer claims the maximum tip credit of $5.12 per hour, no such deductions can be made without reducing the employee below the minimum wage (even where the employee receives more than $5.12 per hour in tips). ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-restaurant-tab-conundrum/846132/42 "2020-01-08T22:55:17Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > Not really. I mean, it sucks that you have to punish everyone because of a few bad eggs, but you have to be very careful not to make stealing overly easy. If the business’ policy is to eat any shortages, what reason would an employee have for not stealing. It would be like a car insurance company that you can call and say ‘hi, my car got hit, they said it’s $1000 to fix’ and you get a check for $1000 without question or proof that it actually happened. > > Of course, it’s kind of a double edge sword since the cashier/waitress has to cover shortages, but the business keeps overages, but like the first part, if employees can keep overages they’ll go out of their way to short customers. I think you either trust your employees not to steal or you fire them, but it seems messed up to say “Sometimes people are going to stiff the bill, this is not your fault and there’s nothing you can do about it, but we’re going to punish you for it regardless because you might be a thief.” Just doesn’t feel right. (And apparently is also illegal). It wouldn’t fly in any other environment either, like if a printer went missing from my office and my key fob indicates that I was the last person there, but I say it was the cleaning crew, my company can either believe me or they can fire me, but they can’t say, “We believe that it was the cleaning crew but we’re docking your pay because if not other people will feel like there’s nothing stopping them from stealing printers and blaming the cleaning crew.” ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-restaurant-tab-conundrum/846132/43 "2020-01-08T23:25:48Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Why wouldn’t you go back. There was some confusion, you explained your side and they took your word for it without question. ISTM, that’s about the best possible outcome. In fact, I’d say you should continue to patronize a business that treats you that well. The money wasn’t there, so they were right (or at least, not wrong) to question you first. But when you said you’re sure you left money, they understood that something happened to it after you left. They should just assume I did not stiff them and not follow me out, IMO. There’s a possible semantic issue in this type of thing. If you mean ‘I don’t know why I, ‘Joey P’, wouldn’t go back to that place’ that’s completely fine. But I ‘Corry El’ will choose from among generally numerous\* eateries on the slightest reason that makes sense to _me_. As long as I’m there I believe I’m more understanding than most people of any problems or issues that arise. And I wouldn’t be literally pissed off by being followed out and asked if I paid. But as to going back, no. \*pretty much innumerable where I live, literally dozens within easy walking distance, but in general there’s multiple choice on eateries most places. Recently I stayed in a town in NV with one restaurant and ~1 hr drive to any other town: fortunately it was good. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-restaurant-tab-conundrum/846132/44 "2020-01-08T23:28:01Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > I think you either trust your employees not to steal or you fire them, but it seems messed up to say “Sometimes people are going to stiff the bill, this is not your fault and there’s nothing you can do about it, but we’re going to punish you for it regardless because you might be a thief.” Just doesn’t feel right. (And apparently is also illegal). It wouldn’t fly in any other environment either, like if a printer went missing from my office and my key fob indicates that I was the last person there, but I say it was the cleaning crew, my company can either believe me or they can fire me, but they can’t say, “We believe that it was the cleaning crew but we’re docking your pay because if not other people will feel like there’s nothing stopping them from stealing printers and blaming the cleaning crew.” You attached my name to the wrong post. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-restaurant-tab-conundrum/846132/45 "2020-01-08T23:37:53Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > They should just assume I did not stiff them and not follow me out, IMO. Oh, I don’t know about that. It’s fair of them to at least ask. But once I explained my side of it, if they choose not to believe me, well, fifteen dollars isn’t enough for me to fight them about it but the accusation (if not withdrawn) would be enough to make me stay away. As for obligations, I certainly wouldn’t feel it my responsibility to pay the bill a second time just because somebody’s stealing from the restaurant’s tables. It probably wouldn’t even cross my mind to pay the tip a second time - I sort of mentally lump the tip in as just part of the cost of eating out, which it so say the bill (which in my mind was already paid). ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-restaurant-tab-conundrum/846132/46 "2020-01-08T23:50:13Z")
This is why I insist on at least seeing the server pick up the money before I leave the restaurant. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-restaurant-tab-conundrum/846132/47 "2020-01-09T00:06:49Z")
Bob ---- but society is to blame. I just had to add the Python reference. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-restaurant-tab-conundrum/846132/48 "2020-01-09T01:25:03Z")
Right or wrong, we’ve got to know, what’s Bob’s race/ethnicity? And this kind of reminds me of the old joke: two men, Andy and Bob, are robbed in a back alley. “Give me all your money,” says the assailant. Both Andy and Bob take their money out of their wallets, when suddenly Andy says, “Bob, here’s that $100 I owe you,” and gives it to him. Is that debt actually settled? ---
**Author:** ![Mallard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Mallard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mallard)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-restaurant-tab-conundrum/846132/49 "2020-01-09T01:41:05Z")
Bob’s on the hook for it. The waitress will be able to establish that it looks like a classic “dine & dash”. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-restaurant-tab-conundrum/846132/50 "2020-01-09T01:45:10Z")
I think that Bob is responsible for seeing that the waitress or the cashier gets his money. But I’ve been in restaurants when it seemed that the waitress/waiter disappears after dropping off the check and have had to wait what seems like a good long time for them to return. So I can understand the desire just to leave money and walk out. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-restaurant-tab-conundrum/846132/51 "2020-01-09T01:50:21Z")
Bob did not remit or even proffer payment. He received a bill, assigned a specified sum to cover it… and then failed to give it to the restaurant or even _attempt_ to give it. That was his failure and that is why, in a situation where the thief remains hidden within in his Schrodinger’s box, Bob owes the restaurant its bill AND the waitress her tip. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-restaurant-tab-conundrum/846132/52 "2020-01-09T02:01:03Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > Right or wrong, we’ve got to know, what’s Bob’s race/ethnicity? > > And this kind of reminds me of the old joke: two men, Andy and Bob, are robbed in a back alley. “Give me all your money,” says the assailant. Both Andy and Bob take their money out of their wallets, when suddenly Andy says, “Bob, here’s that $100 I owe you,” and gives it to him. > > Is that debt actually settled? The joke is funny, but the answer to your question is… Uh, No. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-restaurant-tab-conundrum/846132/53 "2020-01-09T02:17:22Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Leaving money on the table, while inherently risky, is how things are done. > [@CookingWithGas](#): > > Leaving cash on the table to pay a bill (with any change going towards the tip) is a conventional way to pay a restaurant tab if you don’t need change. > [@Corry\_El](#): > > Leaving an even amount of cash which covers the bill (and whatever tip the customer chooses) and walking out is a highly common way of paying a restaurant tab especially in mid/downscale table service places. It’s not like some strange way of paying in some made up strained analogy. I think this argument is missing an important point. There may be restaurants where you can leave money on the table and that’s an accepted practice. But the OP specifically said that the waitress told Bob “I’ll be right back” when she gave him the bill. That indicates that she expected to receive the money directly from Bob. I feel this overrides any claim by Bob that he has left money on the table at other restaurants. If I go to a buffet, I don’t sit down at a table and expect a waiter to bring me my food just because that’s the way they do it at other restaurants. I adapt my usual practice to the way they do it in this particular restaurant. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-restaurant-tab-conundrum/846132/54 "2020-01-09T02:22:15Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Bob did not remit or even proffer payment. He received a bill, assigned a specified sum to cover it… and then failed to give it to the restaurant or even _attempt_ to give it. I wouldn’t go that far. I feel Bob attempted to pay the restaurant. But I feel the money was stolen before the transaction was completed. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-restaurant-tab-conundrum/846132/55 "2020-01-09T02:34:34Z")
He didn’t remit payment. He had to perform an action and he failed. I have been Bob myself, leaving money on the table. But that _passive_ action leaves _me_ open to the liability, not the restaurant. They gave me the service I ordered. I still owe them the $. If I wanted to be totally absolved of that responsibility, I needed to make direct payment to the restaurant, not indirectly by leaving cash where the waitress… or anyone else… could grab it. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-restaurant-tab-conundrum/846132/56 "2020-01-09T02:42:05Z")
Bob. That’s the risk you take when you do something like that. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-restaurant-tab-conundrum/846132/57 "2020-01-09T03:30:41Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > That’s messed up. It was very much a “fuck you, pay me” type of relationship between waitstaff and management. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-restaurant-tab-conundrum/846132/58 "2020-01-09T03:49:52Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > It was very much a “fuck you, pay me” type of relationship between waitstaff and management. [To add to what enalzi said:](https://www.cleveland.com/schultz/2009/12/the_costs_of_getting_stiffed_s.html) > [@](#): > > Finally, if you’re a server whose employer is saddling you with bills that customers refuse to pay, the U.S. Department of Labor wants to hear from you. Call its help line at 1-866-487-9243. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-restaurant-tab-conundrum/846132/59 "2020-01-09T04:43:04Z")
That’s what Bob gets for paying in cash. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-restaurant-tab-conundrum/846132/60 "2020-01-09T12:47:15Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > But Bob’s annoyed by this. As he walks out the door, he decides he shouldn’t give a tip for poor service like that. So he goes back into the restaurant and returns to the table. The twenty is still there. Bob puts the twenty into his wallet and puts fifteen dollars in its place. He then leaves. > > Did Bob take back his own money? Or did Bob steal five dollars that now belonged to the waitress? A month or so ago I was in a dive bar sitting near a man and woman (husband/wife) who were _very_ drunk. Every round of drinks, she paid, then took a dollar or two from her change and added it to a pile of bills on the bar that was going to be her tip at the end of the night. She was barely able to stand. She decided enough was enough, put on her coat (with cringeworthy difficulty), and walked out the door. He stayed and ordered another drink. He also picked up his wife’s tip pile and counted it. He used the money to pay for his drink, put a dollar on the bar and the rest in his pocket, chugged his drink and left. I told the bartender what I’d observed. She told me they do that all the time and she’s pretty sure that the wife knows what he does. She also told me they live a two minute walk from the bar. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-restaurant-tab-conundrum/846132.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-restaurant-tab-conundrum/846132.md?page=4)