# The Return of Fascism **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 13, 2015, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-fascism/740298 "2015-12-13T02:20:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-fascism/740298/41 "2015-12-15T18:26:12Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > B. > > Obama has been in office 7 years. For roughly half a year of that the government operated under a budget signed by George W. Bush; ever since then it’s been budgets signed by Obama. (Not that Obama, as a Senator, ever opposed most Bush’s big-spending ways.) True - January 21, 2009 he should have just snapped his fingers and stopped the two wars and the massive recession that he inherited, which (apart from the stimulus, which most economists agree was too small) were the main drivers of debt under Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-fascism/740298/42 "2015-12-15T21:58:32Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I assume he is referring to short-term growth generated by loosening controls on credit and creating the conditions for credit, housing and other bubbles. Under those conditions, the middle class appears to be prospering but any gains are wiped out in the inevitable contraction that follows. We saw the same thing under Bush II. > > I think “strip-mining” is a bit strong; I think those policies are a well-meaning effort to grow the economy overall. That and accelerating the decline of unions. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-fascism/740298/43 "2015-12-15T23:20:16Z")
For a modern technologically advanced nation, fascism is a wholly outdated and inefficient apparatus compared to modern systems of control. You may as well fret about monarchism or the gold standard. Or at least, that’s what the elites will say to each other before their guy slips his leash. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2015, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-fascism/740298/44 "2015-12-16T00:14:34Z")
That whole “Democrat Party” thing you guys do is just basically juvenile. We have two choices. Ignore it, and look weak. Correct it, and look petty. I’ll look petty, thank you. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2015, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-fascism/740298/45 "2015-12-16T00:18:49Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > True - January 21, 2009 he should have just snapped his fingers and stopped the two wars I’m glad we can agree on something. Yes, if Obama wanted to end the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, he could have issued an order on the day he entered office, ordering all American troops to leave those two countries. It would only have taken a few days, or at most a few weeks, to get all American troops home from the Middle East. Instead, Obama chosen to have the Iraq War drag on for three years, and the Afghanistan War is still going today. So you’re entirely correct. Obama could have ended the wars right away, but he didn’t. He’s also deployed the American military elsewhere, needless to say. ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2015, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-fascism/740298/46 "2015-12-16T02:05:03Z")
“Fascism” is such a [hard word to define](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism). From the cite: > [@](#): > > What constitutes a definition of fascism and fascist governments is a highly disputed subject that has proved complicated and contentious. Historians, political scientists, and other scholars have engaged in long and furious debates concerning the exact nature of fascism and its core tenets. I’ve found it best to ignore anybody who does a Chicken Little routine about the “rising specter of fascism” or other such rot. It’s more sensationalism than substance. [QUOTE=George Orwell] The word Fascism has now no meaning except in so far as it signifies "something not desirable. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2015, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-fascism/740298/47 "2015-12-16T04:52:55Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > I’m glad we can agree on something. Yes, if Obama wanted to end the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, he could have issued an order on the day he entered office, ordering all American troops to leave those two countries. It would only have taken a few days, or at most a few weeks, to get all American troops home from the Middle East. Instead, Obama chosen to have the Iraq War drag on for three years, and the Afghanistan War is still going today. So you’re entirely correct. Obama could have ended the wars right away, but he didn’t. > > He’s also deployed the American military elsewhere, needless to say. Yes because he’s not some retard Paulbot or True Leftist who thinks you can end war simply a snap of a finger. Most liberals aren’t pacifist pansies-they support war as long as its smart and that’s what Obama’s been doing by focusing on drone warfare to blow up the agents of Islamist reaction while keeping American troops safe. ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2015, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-fascism/740298/48 "2015-12-16T05:11:05Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Yes because he’s not some retard Paulbot or True Leftist who thinks you can end war simply a snap of a finger. Most liberals aren’t pacifist pansies-they support war as long as its smart and that’s what Obama’s been doing by focusing on drone warfare to blow up the agents of Islamist reaction while keeping American troops safe. War, which is simply another name for systematic mass murder, is cool as long as it’s “smart”? Seems to me a higher bar than “smart” should be met before bombing people. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2015, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-fascism/740298/49 "2015-12-16T05:12:20Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > War, which is simply another name for systematic mass murder, is cool as long as it’s “smart”? Seems to me a higher bar than “smart” should be met before bombing people. By smart war I mean obviously situations where not going to war at the present moment would in the long run produce greater evils then going to war. ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2015, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-fascism/740298/50 "2015-12-16T05:20:40Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > By smart war I mean obviously situations where not going to war at the present moment would in the long run produce greater evils then going to war. All sane people agree you should pick the lesser of two evils. But it’s very difficult to say what’s “smart” when one compares the present to some possible future condition. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2015, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-fascism/740298/51 "2015-12-16T16:37:39Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Yes because he’s not some retard Paulbot or True Leftist who thinks you can end war simply a snap of a finger. Most liberals aren’t pacifist pansies-they support war as long as its smart and that’s what Obama’s been doing by focusing on drone warfare to blow up the agents of Islamist reaction while keeping American troops safe. Under this logic he is making a rational choice based on the desirability of the various options. He therefore did not get forced into it and should be held accountable for his actions. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-fascism/740298/52 "2015-12-17T08:51:33Z")
Only conservatives could hold the positions “The debt is too high! Obama should have ended the wars earlier!” and “ISIS arose out of instability in Iraq! Obama ended the wars too soon!” without the slightest hint of shame or self-awareness. ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-fascism/740298/53 "2015-12-17T10:13:40Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > I think it’s outrageous that so many people on this thread don’t know fuck all about Fascism, and so readily confuse it with tyranny. > > Also, thinking that only the right can have tyrants. > > Go home; if you’re quiet enough, nobody will throw things at you. The problem is to many people think black and white to quote someone from the EDL I am white my wife is black and the kids are all shades in between. It is the same with politics there are tyrants at both ends bur in the centre ground there is understanding. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-fascism/740298/54 "2015-12-17T10:19:16Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > B. > > Obama has been in office 7 years. For roughly half a year of that the government operated under a budget signed by George W. Bush; ever since then it’s been budgets signed by Obama. (Not that Obama, as a Senator, ever opposed most Bush’s big-spending ways.) So are you blaming Obama for not raising taxes? For not slashing military spending? Or for sending SocSec checks to retirees? Or don’t you even know why the deficit continues? ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-fascism/740298/55 "2015-12-17T15:44:24Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Only conservatives could hold the positions “The debt is too high! Obama should have ended the wars earlier!” and “ISIS arose out of instability in Iraq! Obama ended the wars too soon!” without the slightest hint of shame or self-awareness. Obama did end the wars too soon. That is not what is being debated. Someone said that the deficits under Obama were the fault of his predecessor. What has been pointed out is that since Obama chose to do what he did the consequences of those decisions such as the increased deficits are his fault. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-fascism/740298/56 "2015-12-17T15:44:54Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > The problem is to many people think black and white to quote someone from the EDL I am white my wife is black and the kids are all shades in between. To quote everybody else from the EDL, “send your wife back where she came from.” ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-fascism/740298/57 "2015-12-17T16:41:28Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Yeah, there are alot of poor but not 3rd world terms of poor. The poor here have food, shelter, and most of the basics. Often they own tvs, cell phones, dvds and oddly enough, many are overweight. > snip. It’s not that odd when you realize that those living in poverty in the US can’t afford gym memberships, exercise equipment, organic produce, protein shake powder, or other foods that would provide nutrition but also not make them gain weight. What’s the cheapest stuff you can buy to eat? Ramen, pasta, starchy stuff…all of which packs on the pounds. ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-fascism/740298/58 "2015-12-17T20:42:58Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > To quote everybody else from the EDL, “send your wife back where she came from.” You really are not to bright are. you do you always judge people by your own standards? ---
**Author:** ![jerry\_smissingfinger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e56c9b/32.png) [@jerry\_smissingfinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jerry_smissingfinger)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-fascism/740298/59 "2015-12-19T02:57:43Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > This is correct. Even France, where the Front National has scored 30% in voting, is nowhere ripe for facism. (Trump’s popularity can be dismissed; much is just clowning around with pollsters about a clown.) > > Umair believes fascism will emerge when a demagogue can unite the dissatisfied on the left with the dissatisfied on the right. But the gulf between left and right in America is far too big for this to happen anytime soon. > > He does make one good point however: > > I think it’s very unfortunate that America’s Left is very excited they can smoke marijuana legally, etc. … and they get so stoned they’re hardly aware their country is being stolen out from under them by Wall St. and the Koch Brothers. Don’t forget about Lord Rothchild:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-fascism/740298/60 "2015-12-19T03:06:46Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > To quote everybody else from the EDL, “send your wife back where she came from.” > [@T.M](#): > > You really are not to bright are. you **Really Not All That Bright** , I understand the point you think you were making, but this was not the way to do it. **T.M.** , do not insult other posters outside The BBQ Pit. If you have a problem with a post or a poster, Report the post. Both of you knock it off. [/Moderasting] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-fascism/740298.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-fascism/740298.md?page=4)