# The return of Law and Order Mothership **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted\ **Created:** [February 25, 2022, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-law-and-order-mothership/960091 "2022-02-25T06:36:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-law-and-order-mothership/960091/41 "2022-03-02T02:29:54Z")
> [@Nonsuch](#): > > I was a little disappointed in the Jamie Ross angle. I always liked her character but the actions ascribed to her in this story seem more like something Carmichael would’ve done. In one of her two (corrected from my post above) guest star appearances as a defense atty, (Justice) she twisted the law and her ethics into a knot trying to get the titular justice for a wrongly-convicted person without violating her oath and atty client privilege. She ended up before the ethics board in that one, So what she did in this new episode is within her wheelhouse. But there’s no way a prosecutor should be able to plead the fifth AND keep her job. She can always go back to being a judge. I guess they forgot she was. Or Trial By Jury has been determined to not be canon. > [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I know that all the spinoffs use variations of the theme, but this is the first time I’ve noticed a different version on the original show. Season 1 to 3 or 4 had a longer, more jazzy theme. Criminal Intent switched to a “Power theme” somewhere around season 7. Not sure if Mothership used it as well. At least, until the next season 20 episode I see on WE, > [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I didn’t think she looked bad for 61. Whoever she looked like, looked good for 61. She just didn’t look like Carey Lowell. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-law-and-order-mothership/960091/42 "2022-03-03T22:18:14Z")
Do we know when season 21 will be available in the UK? ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-law-and-order-mothership/960091/43 "2022-03-04T03:57:51Z")
Episode 2. Another muddled mess. Ripped from the headlines (Elizabeth Holmes and Theranos) with a chunk of #MeToo, but it couldn’t keep a narrative. It was a prosecutor-centric episode, but they didn’t seem to have done any prep work or strategizing AT ALL before going to trial. It was all reaction. At least Cosgrove wasn’t an asshole this time. He wasn’t much of anything. Manheim’s Lt Dixon is still even more useless. She’s worse than Cragen. She arrests without sufficient evidence and taunts Price to prosecute. That’s not how it works! Anthony Anderson is still sleepwalking through the eps. All in all it looked like it was written by a rookie screenwriter. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-law-and-order-mothership/960091/44 "2022-03-04T05:44:50Z")
> [@MrAtoz](#): > > > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > > > I’m finally watching the episode and I’m not at all surprised that McCoy was hostile to the “defund the police” sentiment. This is a career district attorney who worked with police for decades. Despite his liberal leanings, he doesn’t recognize the problems. I think this is supposed to demonstrate just how entrenched the system is. > > Not to mention that McCoy was frequently willing to “bend the rules” to get a conviction. It’s not just that he doesn’t recognize the problems, he often is part of the problem. He may be an old hippy who has fond memories of Woodstock, but as a prosecutor he’s always been very pro-police. I believe his nickname is “Hang 'Em High McCoy”. Being a liberal hasn’t prevented McCoy from being a hardass before, obviously. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-law-and-order-mothership/960091/45 "2022-03-04T13:57:24Z")
Sounds like they’re using SVU’s “2 for one” style of writing where if they don’t think the original plots are strong enough with the main story they’ll add another subplot … Like when Svu did its take of the high school “pregnancy club” they added a second act thing of having one of the other girls’ mom bully one of the girls to suicide as revenge for disgracing her kid Both were real-life incidents on the news at the time ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2022, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-law-and-order-mothership/960091/46 "2022-03-05T19:46:54Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Episode 2. Another muddled mess. Agreed. Possibly even worse than the premiere. Law & Order was never exactly subtle but it’s startling how dumbed-down and expository this episode was. There’s so much declaiming and speechifying about the political significance of every plot point there’s barely any time to _have_ a plot. The Holmes stand-in character was thinly sketched even by L&O standards; the show has served up so many wealthy narcissists as defendants in the past it’s like they don’t feel they have to try anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-law-and-order-mothership/960091/47 "2022-03-11T06:18:06Z")
Episode 3. Did they fire all their legal advisors? Ripped from the headlines of Gabby Petito. Why did defense put the defendant on the stand? Why didn’t she ask for a summary dismissal (and get one)? Why was Jack so gung ho for a case with no actual evidence (or even a body)? What was the hurry? More important, plot wise, if the guy actually did it, why did he keep the empty bag of lye, the shovel, the excess zip ties? Was he just frugal? Why was the boot in his house, but yet the body could never be found? Who posted the fake photo of the dead girl, and are you telling me no one in NYPD could expose it as a fake? Sloppy writing, again. Frank is still an inconsistent hot head, and Anthony Anderson still looks like he wishes he was in some other show. Fun fact: Milena Govich (detective beauty queen) directed, and her aunt has a role as the trial judge. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-law-and-order-mothership/960091/48 "2022-03-11T14:59:33Z")
Oh dear… I haven’t been able to bring myself to watch episodes 2 & 3. Episode 1 stank to high heaven. I don’t do well with disillusionment. I’m enjoying watching the early episodes on afternoon TV-- Briscoe and Green, my favorite combo. I may just stick with those for a while. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-law-and-order-mothership/960091/49 "2022-03-11T15:19:13Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I don’t do well with disillusionment. These episodes are like a HS knockoff version of L&O, written by 17 year olds. In “real” Law and Order, a murder case without a body would be acknowledged to be a tough sell, and yet here the show just shrugs and the jury says “guilty”. To be fair, the empty bag of lye really can’t be explained away, but should it be enough to convict? And your telling me that in winter, they can’t find a fresh grave? It’s not like this guy is going to lug a body over his shoulder three miles from the road. The body is certainly not far from a road, or his tracks could easily be followed off road. This is his first “spurned date” murder, and he leaves no evidence? Quite the learning curve. And he doesn’t just bash her head in and leave, no he publicly grabs her off the street, drives her around (for what purpose) and murders and buries her. How does he go from “you must love me” to “if I can’t have you no one can” in a matter of…hours? And this is just ignored in the episode. Good writing could have fixed all these issues. Note that L&O (Criminal Intent) has already did the internet sensation who might have faked her kidnapping (with bonus murder!), though they didn’t have the word “influencer” back then. > **["Law & Order: Criminal Intent" Weeping Willow (TV Episode 2006) ⭐ 7.5 |...](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0891812/)** > > 1h | TV-14 I’m hoping in five or 6 episodes, we’ll have a follow up and find she’s not dead. Probably not with this writing group, though. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-law-and-order-mothership/960091/50 "2022-03-11T18:39:19Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Oh dear… I haven’t been able to bring myself to watch episodes 2 & 3. Episode 1 stank to high heaven. I don’t do well with disillusionment. I don’t know, I thought episodes 2 & 3 were fine… Honestly I didn’t really notice much difference between those and the original series. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-law-and-order-mothership/960091/51 "2022-03-11T18:40:52Z")
I appreciate that comment. I’ll give them a look. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-law-and-order-mothership/960091/52 "2022-03-11T18:55:16Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I’ll give them a look. It’s always good to check them out for yourself. Mileage always vaires, and they’re only 40 minutes without commercials. Heck, I watched all the Fontana and DBQ episodes, and I won’t watch those again. How do you know if they’re bad if you don’t watch them? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-law-and-order-mothership/960091/53 "2022-03-11T19:01:17Z")
> [@MrAtoz](#): > > He may be an old hippy who has fond memories of Woodstock, but as a prosecutor he’s always been very pro-police. Yeah. In the Stephen Hill days, there were times when Adam Schiff pushed McCoy to charge police with more serious crimes than McCoy thought was appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-law-and-order-mothership/960091/54 "2022-03-11T21:25:15Z")
Gee, I liked Fontana… no accountin’ for taste, eh? 😉 In some areas I’m easily influenced by others’ opinions. Other times I’m obnoxiously and contrarily defiant. _Part of my charm._ ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-law-and-order-mothership/960091/55 "2022-03-11T21:34:51Z")
> [@dorvann](#): > > A police procedural set in the Star Trek universe would be an interesting idea for a show [It’s been done](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspicions_%28Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation%29), and the result was pretty meh. ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2022, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-law-and-order-mothership/960091/56 "2022-03-14T04:54:52Z")
Though by no means a great episode, this last one did not strike me as so glaringly ill-conceived and mishandled as the first two. Though I cringe at hearing characters say things like “It took me a year to reach influencer status!”, like they send you a certificate in the mail or something. Still, the killer was memorably chilling and most of the proceedings were pretty grounded and realistic so long as nobody was taking about social media. _Edit: spelling_ ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2022, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-law-and-order-mothership/960091/57 "2022-03-14T12:08:43Z")
> [@Nonsuch](#): > > Though I cringe at hearing characters say things like “It took me a year to reach influencer status!”, It’s like saying someone is a 47th level Dungeon Master. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2022, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-law-and-order-mothership/960091/58 "2022-04-08T04:00:06Z")
New episode, ripped from the headlines of the “Pizzagate” shooter, combined with any right wing radio show rabble rouser. Things are getting better. I really expected Cosgrove to fully support the right wing freedum freethinkers. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2022, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-law-and-order-mothership/960091/59 "2022-04-08T04:37:54Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Episode 3. Did they fire all their legal advisors? > > Ripped from the headlines of Gabby Petito. > > Why did defense put the defendant on the stand? Why didn’t she ask for a summary dismissal (and get one)? Why was Jack so gung ho for a case with no actual evidence (or even a body)? What was the hurry? Yes, the whole thing made no sense. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2022, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-law-and-order-mothership/960091/60 "2022-05-14T21:56:44Z")
This series is getting bad and formulaic FAST. 1. The two detectives are pretty cool, and do find the killer fairly quickly. The Lieutenant ( Camryn Manheim) is wasted as her entire role is to say something like “Bring him in”. 2. But then, there is little solid evidence the killer did it. However, the killer pleads to some weird ass defense which means he admits it (which isn’t necessary at all, as the cases is weak), such as he ate too many twinkies. 3, Then Price decides to do some crazy end run around the law, and comes up with something new, like charging the twinky company with crimes against humanity. Price is also a huge asshole who treats his brilliant assistant like some used toilet paper he stepped on in the subway. 1. The great Sam Waterson then offers a word of caution, but always goes along with the crazy end run. Always. Sam then is _also_ wasted, along with poor Camryn Manheim. They might as well just do prerecord bytes of their roles, and the director can splice them in when needed. 2. Prices big prosecution is simply to make an emotional appeal to the jury, who, inevitably turn in a Guilty verdict (except the one time there was a rather relatable defendant) . 3. Always ripped from the headlines. Rinse, wash, repeat. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-law-and-order-mothership/960091.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-law-and-order-mothership/960091.md?page=4)