# The return of Law and Order Mothership **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted\ **Created:** [February 25, 2022, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-law-and-order-mothership/960091 "2022-02-25T06:36:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2022, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-law-and-order-mothership/960091/81 "2022-05-20T21:38:27Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Did you ever watch L&O:UK? A lot of the episodes are straight remakes of Mothership episodes, adapted for the difference in legal systems and culture. Yeah, had to drop it. > [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Tonight’s episode was the season finale. Thank goodness. Yeah, again the ADA missed a huge point. The cop saw the defendant brandishing a firearm. Then, she somehow out it away then drew and shit in a few minutes? And once a cop sees a gun, there is no "Down on your knees, n\*\*\*\*r, it is _drop the gun, drop the weapon NOW,_ over and over until the gun is dropped or the cop fires. And there is also no way the perp put the gun away then drew and fired without the cop dropping her. And no ADA would charge manslaughter. They’d charge Homicide 1, and maybe take a plea for aggravated manslaughter. Bad episode and bad season. ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2022, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-law-and-order-mothership/960091/82 "2022-05-23T14:23:36Z")
The best that can be said for this episode was that it wasn’t a ripped-from-the-headlines, “you won’t believe the shocking twist!”-type of story the season has otherwise leaned on. It still wasn’t great but there were moments that felt like an actual investigation, like the show used to be about. (I was hoping Shambala Green would’ve shown up as the girl’s attorney. She’d have kicked their asses around the courthouse.) All in all, a slight, last-minute upturn in an otherwise dire season. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2022, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-law-and-order-mothership/960091/83 "2022-05-23T14:35:05Z")
> [@Nonsuch](#): > > She’d have kicked their asses around the courthouse.) Speaking of, has the prosecution lost a case this season? I genuinely don’t remember - but each episode seems so heavy handed I can’t believe they did. And Shambala does kick ass. Does anyone think her and Ben Stone had a “thing” before season 1? There always seemed to be something deeper going on between them. Or is it just me? ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2022, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-law-and-order-mothership/960091/84 "2022-05-23T16:56:16Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Does anyone think her and Ben Stone had a “thing” before season 1? There always seemed to be something deeper going on between them. Or is it just me? It felt to me like they knew and respected each other but didn’t have an outside-of-work relationship. And it felt like their good relationship probably ended during “Sanctuary,” when she called him a hypocrite and he sorta called her a racist. On the other hand, I think it was fairly clear that Stone and Olivet were friends and had some kind of social relationship. Carolyn McCormick said she had hoped to maintain that dynamic with McCoy but that Waterston wasn’t all that interested in pursuing it. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2022, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-law-and-order-mothership/960091/85 "2022-05-23T17:04:33Z")
Speaking of social relationships (since season 21 sure isn’t worth talking about 🙂 ) what was up between Ross and Rodgers? In one episode Ross is with the detectives in the MEs office and the anger between Ross and Rodgers is physically palpable. But when Ross gets killed, Rodgers cries and practically looses it when she’s at the crime scene. I like it that L&O leaves out personal lives, but if they are going to bring it up, they should 1) actually explain it and 2) keep it consistent. And I still want to know how much went on between Rodgers and Lennie when they went to the opera. Rodgers said “best night of my life” and I’m not sure if she was referring to the production. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2022, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-law-and-order-mothership/960091/86 "2022-05-23T17:28:13Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Speaking of social relationships (since season 21 sure isn’t worth talking about 🙂 ) what was up between Ross and Rodgers? In one episode Ross is with the detectives in the MEs office and the anger between Ross and Rodgers is physically palpable. But when Ross gets killed, Rodgers cries and practically looses it when she’s at the crime scene. Do you mean Borgia, by any chance? Jamie Ross was not killed off, and Carey Lowell came back for an episode of the new season. Claire Kincaid was killed off, but I don’t recall Rodgers at the crime scene. > [@](#): > > And I still want to know how much went on between Rodgers and Lennie when they went to the opera. Rodgers said “best night of my life” and I’m not sure if she was referring to the production. I’ve heard that bit of trivia, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen the episode in which it’s mentioned. Do you happen to know which one? Apparently Lennie Briscoe’s death is referenced three times in the L&O-verse; once by each of his three partners. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2022, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-law-and-order-mothership/960091/87 "2022-05-23T18:10:37Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Do you mean Borgia, by any chance? Jamie Ross was not killed off Sorry! I forgot there were two! I refer to Capt Ross, played by Eric Bogosian in Criminal Intent. Rodgers was in both shows. (Probably SVU, too, but I don’t watch that. Definitely not in L&O: LA or UK. 🙂 ). I’d better be more careful. In the L&O family, next I’ll refer to “Alex” or “the redhead” and no one will know of whom I am speaking. 🙂 > [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I’ve heard that bit of trivia, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen the episode in which it’s mentioned. Do you happen to know which one? Criminal Intent, season 5, Dramma Giocoso. Rodgers is inspecting the snotty conductor, played by repeat offender Julian Sands, for possible injuries that may have happened if he had murdered the violinist. He’s all “I hope you can handle seeing me shirtless, the shock may be too much”, and while she’s not having any of it, she does give him a compliment that she saw a production of his (I think it was Aida, but I can’t remember), and then she looks to Logan and says “Lennie Briscoe took me”. I got the impression Logan hadn’t heard about this. Her tone wasn’t bragging, but wistful. > [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Apparently Lennie Briscoe’s death is referenced three times in the L&O-verse; once by each of his three partners. In season 6 of CI, Renewal, Logan tells his date that Lennie comes to him in dreams, saying “I’m not dead, Mike. I’m not dead”. When Curtis came back to visit when Deborah died, he told Van Buren he talked to Lennie before he died. I don’t know what or when Ed Green said anything. If it was in a Fontana episode, that would explain why. 🙂 I can’t stand him. eta: since we’re talking about Rodgers, I just have one thing to add. “Free javelins.” ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2022, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-law-and-order-mothership/960091/88 "2022-05-23T18:22:02Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > When the police chief bitches to McCoy about “defunding the police” I realize why it’s a good thing I’m not DA. I was focused on figuring out if the chief was Anthony Michael Hall (it wasn’t but the resemblance was there). > [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > eta: since we’re talking about Rodgers, I just have one thing to add. “Free javelins.” Rogers also has the great bit with Green (regarding the morgue) Rogers: “You get used to the smell” Green: “No, you DON’T!” ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2022, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-law-and-order-mothership/960091/89 "2022-05-23T18:32:15Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > I was focused on figuring out if the chief was Anthony Michael Hall (it wasn’t but the resemblance was there). Nope, but he was another repeat offender. Terry Serpico. (what a name for a New Yorker. Fun fact: his father’s name was Frank Serpico, but not _that_ Frank Serpico.) He was a criminal on two CI episodes, and a semi-regular on SVU. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2022, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-law-and-order-mothership/960091/90 "2022-05-23T19:23:46Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > I don’t know what or when Ed Green said anything. If it was in a Fontana episode, that would explain why. 🙂 I can’t stand him. It was in Green’s last episode, “Burn Card” from Season 18 (also the episode that introduced Anthony Anderson as Detective Bernard). Green said that he had started gambling again after Lennie died. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2022, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-law-and-order-mothership/960091/91 "2022-05-23T19:43:44Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > eta: since we’re talking about Rodgers, I just have one thing to add. “Free javelins.” Best line ever. Anyone who can trade wisecracks with Lennie Briscoe and come out on top is a force to be reckoned with. Would love to see Rodgers return in a new episode. Second best line, this time from Lennie, “extra mustard, and don’t trim the fat.” ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2022, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-law-and-order-mothership/960091/92 "2022-05-23T19:44:19Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Speaking of, has the prosecution lost a case this season? I genuinely don’t remember - but each episode seems so heavy handed I can’t believe they did. Yes. One. The defendant had a weird defense, and of course the ADA tried some weird charge. But the defendant was really sympathetic, and you could see the jury siding with him. Price should have picked up on that and cut his losses, but he is shown as a “my way is always the ONLY right way” so of course he didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2022, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-law-and-order-mothership/960091/93 "2022-05-23T21:16:12Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Second best line, this time from Lennie, “extra mustard, and don’t trim the fat.” Third best, the on-site ME, telling Lennie and Ed about the condition of a floater, and lack of anything that can be sued to ID the body: “Did I mention the eels?” ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2022, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-law-and-order-mothership/960091/94 "2022-05-23T21:27:39Z")
Is the season over now? I don’t like the ADA, don’t like the Burn Notice guy, hear others agree with me, but I could get used to them. I want to go back and watch some of them again, I feel like something has changed stylistically that I can’t put my finger on. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2022, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-law-and-order-mothership/960091/95 "2022-05-24T03:42:44Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I don’t like the ADA, don’t like the Burn Notice guy, hear others agree with me, but I could get used to them. I do not like the ADA either, Price is such a asshole, and he treats his assistant like dirt. Det. Cosgrove is kinda hit and miss, he was really bad first epi, but has toned down. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2022, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-law-and-order-mothership/960091/96 "2022-05-24T22:04:31Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Price is such a asshole, And I thought Cutter was bad. We didn’t know how good we had it. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2022, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-law-and-order-mothership/960091/97 "2022-05-24T23:03:07Z")
Yeah, Cutter did questionable stuff - but he did it in order to win, which is comprehensible; Price just does stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-law-and-order-mothership/960091/98 "2022-05-25T14:21:41Z")
There was a Briscoe and Green episode called _Couples_ that diverged from the usual formula; with the detectives investigating three homicides and a kidnapping all on the same day. There are some great Lennie moments in that one. > [@](#): > > Maitre D’: [referring to the victim and her husband] She gave him a big hug. > > Detective Lennie Briscoe: No kiss? > > Maitre D’: You married? > > Detective Lennie Briscoe: I’ve toyed with the notion. > **["Law & Order" Couples (TV Episode 2003) - Quotes - IMDb](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0629219/quotes/?ref_=ttgf_sa_3)** > > Couples: Directed by David Platt. With Jerry Orbach, Jesse L. Martin, S. Epatha Merkerson, Sam Waterston. Briscoe and Green catch three murder cases and one kidnapping on the same day, and one murder is tied to a fourth murder which happened ten... ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-law-and-order-mothership/960091/99 "2022-05-25T14:23:37Z")
From that episode > - [A.D.A. Serena Southerlyn](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0737533/?ref_=tt_ch) : The defendant killed her husband, your honor. > > [Gwen Berman](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0249060/?ref_=tt_ch) : She ran him over four times with her car. > > [Judge Janice Goldberg](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0495877/?ref_=tt_ch) : I admire her restraint. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-law-and-order-mothership/960091/100 "2022-05-25T16:30:51Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > [Judge Janice Goldberg](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0495877/?ref_=tt_ch) : I admire her restraint. The arraignment judges, though short their hour upon the stage may be, do get some good one liners every now and then. I also notice they use the same actors for these judges a lot, which makes sense in the real world. 13 times, in the case of Ms Lebowitz! Same scene: I’m not supposed to express personal opinions in the courtroom, but I’ve got to tell you, Ms. Perazzo, you make me proud to be an American. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-law-and-order-mothership/960091.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-law-and-order-mothership/960091.md?page=6)