# The Return of the Justice League - Feb 11th **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 7, 2006, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-the-justice-league-feb-11th/343419 "2006-02-07T18:08:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2006, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-the-justice-league-feb-11th/343419/21 "2006-02-12T19:58:29Z")
> [@middleman](#): > > I don’t buy comics any more, but as my wife was next door at the eye glass store, I took our son into the shop to see the superheroes. > > We picked out a few JLU and TT comics and then looked at the toys. > > We saw a DC Direct Hal Jordan figure, and noticing that this Green Lantern was not a black man with a shaved head, he proclaimed, “That’s not the REAL Green Lantern.” With all due respect, your boy needs an edu-ma-cation. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Xan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/ac8455/32.png) [@Xan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xan)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2006, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-the-justice-league-feb-11th/343419/22 "2006-02-12T19:59:04Z")
> [@Big Bad Voodoo Lou](#): > > Heh, I was the first contributor to the Wikipedia article on Blue Beetle, since I’m also a huge fan of the character. (See my website, [http://www.geocities.com/bigbadvoodoolou/bluebeetle.html](http://www.geocities.com/bigbadvoodoolou/bluebeetle.html) , which will hopefully also give you some reading recommendations.) I am amused and surprised to see how others have embellished upon what I originally wrote. > > The licensing rights to Beetle and the other Charlton characters are fascinating to me, especially because nobody has given any straight answers. I’ve communicated one-on-one with Dwayne McDuffie over this, as well as executives in charge of the JLU action figure line at Mattel as to why they can’t make Question or Captain Atom toys or merchandise, and why Beetle wasn’t even allowed to be used in the show. Take it from me, McDuffie and Bruce Timm would have LOVED to include him, had they been granted the rights. The Mattel guys would have loved to produce Beetle in three dimensions as well, but it was not to be. > > Since I’m also interested in copyright and trademark law, I would be fascinated to see the original Blue Beetle media rights contract dating back to the 1939 radio show, but I’ve never found it, and anyone who knows the specifics ain’t talking. So nobody knows the whole story, but that’s just the most logical explanation circulating. > > At least the mysterious contract also kept Blue Beetle out of the reportedly-atrocious made-for-TV live action Justice League pilot, which featured an out-of-shape David Ogden Stiers as Martian Manhunter, along with Green Lantern Guy Gardner, Flash, the Atom, Fire, and Ice. Thanks for the link! (although I already saw it when you linked to it in another thread. Now I’m going to bookmark it) ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2006, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-the-justice-league-feb-11th/343419/23 "2006-02-12T21:22:56Z")
Lou, There are several Capt. Atom action figures available. I’m not sure if Mattel makes them (that would be DC’s decision), but there are several [here](http://www.bizrate.com/buy/products__att288051--573391-,cat_id--14010100.html) and I believe there is a JLU one. ---
**Author:** ![Wolfian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7ea924/32.png) [@Wolfian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfian)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2006, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-the-justice-league-feb-11th/343419/24 "2006-02-12T22:46:05Z")
**Xan** : Blue Beetle pops stars in the Justice League Unlimited comic #5. Its’ pretty funny. At one point he steals a carton of milk from the JLU fridge, presumably Zatanna’s as it has “knird ton od” written on it. 😃 > [@middleman](#): > > We saw a DC Direct Hal Jordan figure, and noticing that this Green Lantern was not a black man with a shaved head, he proclaimed, “That’s not the REAL Green Lantern.” > > I went into a defensive crouch, because I was worried I was gonna have to whup some fanboy butt. > > Them’s fightin’ words in some circles. : Snort : Everybody knows that the REAL GL wears black and white and a crab mask. : d & r : ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-the-justice-league-feb-11th/343419/25 "2006-02-13T00:22:02Z")
> [@middleman](#): > > Lou, > > There are several Capt. Atom action figures available. I’m not sure if Mattel makes them (that would be DC’s decision), but there are several [here](http://www.bizrate.com/buy/products__att288051--573391-,cat_id--14010100.html) and I believe there is a JLU one. Howdy, Sir! Actually, DC Direct made the only existing Captain Atom figure so far, as part of its “Batman/Superman: Public Enemies” line, based on the art of Ed McGuinness. I own it – that is the one you linked to. Presumably DC Direct can produce any characters they want, since they are an actual branch of DC Comics – that’s why they’ve also made Blue Beetle and Question figures (one of each, a few years back). There are also Captain Atom and Blue Beetle HeroClix game pieces made by WizKids, and Hasbro made a Blue Beetle action figure back in 2000 as a special mail-order figure for their Total Justice toy line. I’m not sure of the legal machinations behind this, except to just hypothesize that each merchandising company has its own set of licensing contracts with DC, and each contract has specific lists of characters they can and cannot portray or produce. We know Mattel does not have permission to make the big three Charlton characters as JLU figures, in that specific scale (4") and art style (based on Timm): Blue Beetle (who isn’t allowed in the cartoon either), or Captain Atom or Question (who both are). We also know they cannot make Captain Marvel either, despite his single appearance in JLU – and other toy and merchandising companies have made Captain Marvel stuff in years past, adding to the confusion. I can’t explain why, but I can clearly guess that the master list of characters Mattel got from their contract with DC and WB Animation has a long list of possibilities for them to produce (which is how we’ve gotten some oddball figure choices like Aztek, Waverider, and the Ditko Starman), just not those four. Since Beetle, Question, Captain Atom, and Captain Marvel were all acquired by DC from different publishers that no longer exist (Charlton and Fawcett), I can see why they might be under a different set of contracts, rather than with the “homegrown” DC characters. Then again, if you ever happened to see this picture on my website with my JLU figure display (complete with Blue Beetle and Captain Atom), I should tell you they were customized figures made for me by our very own Doper **Selkie** , a top-notch professional sculptor: [http://www.geocities.com/bigbadvoodoolou/toys/jlu.jpg](http://www.geocities.com/bigbadvoodoolou/toys/jlu.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-the-justice-league-feb-11th/343419/26 "2006-02-13T01:15:41Z")
**Wolfian** , you’re just asking for a world of hurt, aren’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-the-justice-league-feb-11th/343419/27 "2006-02-13T02:24:15Z")
> [@middleman](#): > > We saw a DC Direct Hal Jordan figure, and noticing that this Green Lantern was not a black man with a shaved head, he proclaimed, “That’s not the REAL Green Lantern.” > > I went into a defensive crouch, because I was worried I was gonna have to whup some fanboy butt. > > Them’s fightin’ words in some circles. You gotta get your son to see the 2 parter ‘The Once and Future Thing’. There were some weird time fluctuations going on and at one point John Stewart turned into Hal Jordan- pretty cool. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-the-justice-league-feb-11th/343419/28 "2006-02-13T02:26:30Z")
At which point you should point to Hal and yell, “See, son? Pay attention. HE is the one true Green Lantern!” ---
**Author:** ![Xan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/ac8455/32.png) [@Xan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xan)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-the-justice-league-feb-11th/343419/29 "2006-02-13T02:28:15Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > At which point you should point to Hal and yell, “See, son? Pay attention. HE is the one true Green Lantern!” Alan Scott would disagree with that. ---
**Author:** ![bmoak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@bmoak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bmoak)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-the-justice-league-feb-11th/343419/30 "2006-02-13T04:29:18Z")
Nice ep. Orion is kind of an odd foil for the Flash, and it’s kind of embarassing to see the wielder of the Astro-Force get smacked around by the likes of Capt. Cold and capt. Boomerang. The contrast between how the Flashand Batman interact with both the local citizenry and their Rogues Galleries is exquisite. Wally’s boss is definately a tribute to Barry Allen. Not only Barry’s blond buzz-cut (and his job) but his trademark bow-tie as well. ---
**Author:** ![Amok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f17d59/32.png) [@Amok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amok)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-the-justice-league-feb-11th/343419/31 "2006-02-13T14:48:14Z")
> [@Big Bad Voodoo Lou](#): > > He did indeed, and David Cassidy played Mirror Master – but I don’t think he provided the voice last night. Mirror Master was voiced by Alexis Denisof. I didn’t recognize his voice at all though. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-the-justice-league-feb-11th/343419/32 "2006-02-13T14:51:28Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > At which point you should point to Hal and yell, “See, son? Pay attention. HE is the one true Green Lantern!” I would have said it when we saw the episode, but I had already said it about Kyle Rayner in the Amazo Returns episode! 😉😃 ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-the-justice-league-feb-11th/343419/33 "2006-02-13T15:31:09Z")
“… you just pull another bleedin’ mirror out of your **arse** nal…” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-the-justice-league-feb-11th/343419/34 "2006-02-13T15:37:15Z")
> [@bmoak](#): > > Nice ep. Orion is kind of an odd foil for the Flash, and it’s kind of embarassing to see the wielder of the Astro-Force get smacked around by the likes of Capt. Cold and capt. Boomerang. > > The contrast between how the Flashand Batman interact with both the local citizenry and their Rogues Galleries is exquisite. > > Wally’s boss is definately a tribute to Barry Allen. Not only Barry’s blond buzz-cut (and his job) but his trademark bow-tie as well. I agree. Orion is (near?) Superman-level strength and durability. Captain Cold and Captain Boomerang would not have slowed him one bit. However, like most comics and especially tv shows based on comics, his powers were adjusted to the appropriate level for the story. I like (even if it probably wasn’t in character) how, after berating Bats for giving into Flash, he gave in to Bats. I really liked how Flash handled The Trickster, plus his attitude towards the rest of his rogues. I also enjoyed Flash’s interaction with the crowd and the people of Central City. It stands in stark contrast to _The_ Batman (wasn’t there a joke in this episode about that, or did I read it in a comic this week?). I thought the writers could have done a little better with the closing speeches, both Flash to the press and Orion to Flash. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-the-justice-league-feb-11th/343419/35 "2006-02-13T15:43:36Z")
Do you think that episode may have been a pilot-with-a-show for a Flash cartoon? ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-the-justice-league-feb-11th/343419/36 "2006-02-13T15:57:43Z")
> [@middleman](#): > > Do you think that episode may have been a pilot-with-a-show for a Flash cartoon? Maybe. They probably just wanted to give Wally his proper respect, since he got nerfed more than anyone in the early Justice League seasons, and then took a long hiatus due to scheduling conflicts with Michael Rosenbaum. The next thing we’ll be seeing from this team is Legion of Superheroes, but early reports hint that it’s going to be more like Teen Titans than JLU, in style and perhaps in how it’s a half-step removed from the established animated continuity. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-the-justice-league-feb-11th/343419/37 "2006-02-13T16:01:45Z")
Oh, please. Not more of that wildly exaggerated _faux_ anime style! ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-the-justice-league-feb-11th/343419/38 "2006-02-13T16:08:29Z")
I’ve grown to enjoy the TT series, but I’d prefer to see LSH done in the JLU style. ---
**Author:** ![JDeMobray](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@JDeMobray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JDeMobray)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-the-justice-league-feb-11th/343419/39 "2006-02-13T16:32:35Z")
> [@middleman](#): > > I’ve grown to enjoy the TT series, but I’d prefer to see LSH done in the JLU style. I don’t like how Braniac 5 looks in JLU style. Too big and muscular looking. Actually, I’m probably just going to go ahead and say that I don’t care for how any of the LSH costumes look when done by Bruce Timm. I didn’t like them on Superman: TAS, and I don’t like the look of the screenshots I’ve seen for the JLU appearance. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-the-justice-league-feb-11th/343419/40 "2006-02-13T16:33:50Z")
> [@Menocchio](#): > > Maybe. They probably just wanted to give Wally his proper respect, since he got nerfed more than anyone in the early Justice League seasons Flash was depowered by an amount equal to Hawkgirl’s (or is that Hawkgrrl’s?) empowerment. Or maybe by an amount equal to all the Thanagarian’s empowerment, depending on how you feel about Flash. GL is also annoyingly depowered, but I can’t think of anyone who was empowered to make up for it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-the-justice-league-feb-11th/343419.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-the-justice-league-feb-11th/343419.md?page=3)