# The Return of the White Elephant! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 7, 2001, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-the-white-elephant/75316 "2001-08-07T16:57:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![thinksnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thinksnow/32/2849_2.png) [@thinksnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thinksnow)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2001, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-the-white-elephant/75316/81 "2001-08-16T15:00:07Z")
**Chef** , I apologize, I was trying not to nail you to a cross for wanting to out those people (but you did say “I’m serious about this,” so…) The “you” was, of course, the royal you, and if you felt singled out because I was responding to your post, again, I’m sorry. I said and totally agree that everyone _should_ have been able to give and receive, but I can’t see haranguing those that left their person hanging, for whatever reason, be they hit by a Pepsi truck or have to choose between food on the table, making the house payment and sending a package. It sucks, and as I said, I’m trying to keep up with them and I _will_ make sure they do not get to benefit from a second round of friendly exchange without, at least, a full disclosure of their reasons for slacking last time and news of their persons receipt of junk. Personally, I think that if they weren’t able to send their package, they should at least have emailed their person to let them know, and you’ll remember that I included the email add’y with IRL info. ---
**Author:** ![thinksnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thinksnow/32/2849_2.png) [@thinksnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thinksnow)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2001, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-the-white-elephant/75316/82 "2001-08-16T16:08:36Z")
**Bouv** , you add’y has been updated. **Zappo** , back-checking, I see your situation was resolved earlier this month, yes? ---
**Author:** ![mongrel\_8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@mongrel\_8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mongrel_8)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2001, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-the-white-elephant/75316/83 "2001-08-16T16:16:48Z")
I’m in, my info is on the way. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2001, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-the-white-elephant/75316/84 "2001-08-16T16:28:30Z")
Count me in! MWWHHHhHA HA HA HA HA ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2001, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-the-white-elephant/75316/85 "2001-08-16T16:43:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chef Troy \* > \*\* > > As for all of you reading this: if you agree with me, I would appreciate you taking the time to post and back me up. The barbarians are at the gate, people, and you may think it’s silly to make an issue of it over this white elephant exchange, but as the saying goes, “for want of a nail…” If you don’t speak up, you lose your right to complain. \*\* Sorry, **Cheffie** , but since you’re asking for opinions, no, I don’t agree with you on this one. It’s not that I don’t understand your disappointment - I do. What I don’t understand is your **anger**. Some people are jerks and they don’t live up to their promises. Surely it can’t have taken you this long in life to figure that out. Some people also have things come up in their lives that can get in the way of them doing something they fully intended to do - and those people already feel bad about it, so publicly ridiculing them is just plain mean. So in the meantime, take a deep breath, relax and move on. It’s round 2 - you can either play again and have fun with it or be angry and bitter and make it unfun. Your pick. * * * Jeg elsker dig, Thomas [sub][sup]Join [**Team Straight Dope**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=70348) in the [**fight against cancer**](http://www.ud.com/home.htm)![/sup][/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Chef\_Troy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85f322/32.png) [@Chef\_Troy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chef_Troy)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2001, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-the-white-elephant/75316/86 "2001-08-16T17:52:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shayna \* > **Sorry, Cheffie, but since you’re asking for opinions, no, I don’t agree with you on this one. It’s not that I don’t understand your disappointment - I do. What I don’t understand is your _anger_. Some people are jerks and they don’t live up to their promises. Surely it can’t have taken you this long in life to figure that out. Some people also have things come up in their lives that can get in the way of them doing something they fully intended to do - and those people already feel bad about it, so publicly ridiculing them is just plain mean.** Shayna, you know that I adore you. It pains me to be in disagreement with you, but you appear to have missed the point of my protest. I’m not angry, I’m annoyed. Also, let me reiterate that I was mostly tongue-in-cheek about the public ridicule, although I am not kidding about my position that people should not be allowed to break their promises without being called on it. Let me also make clear that this is NOT about the freaking care package, but about people behaving with courtesy to each other. As for the idea of “people are jerks, so get over it,” let me just say that if everyone lets a jerk continue to be a jerk things will never get any better. I firmly believe that the principle of common courtesy is worth speaking up for, even if the circumstances are trivial. To quote Winston Churchill, with such people the only answer is to step on their toes until they apologize. If person X knew who hacked the People Pages wouldn’t you want to know about it? What if person X refused to tell you who person Y is on the grounds that it MIGHT have been an accident and they were too embarrassed to tell you themselves - not that X knows this for a fact, but is just speculating? (Note: I am NOT implying that someone failing to send me a box of paperclips and ceramic whales is in any way on a par with what happened to the People Pages - it’s just an analogy.) I recognize that some people may have been prevented from following through by something that’s beyond their power - but if so, all they have to do is say so. They don’t even have to say what the problem is; they could just post and say “Sorry, I have to back out” or “I’ll get to it when I can.” I would have NO problem with this. If I’d been in a position like that, I would have at least sent an e-mail apology privately to my intended recipient so they weren’t left wondering if a package got mailed and never arrived. I just can’t believe I am the only one who feels this way. Won’t SOMEONE stand with me here? If no one agrees with me, then I really am going to have to withdraw my name from this new round of exchanges. Not because I’m angry. Not because I’m bitter. Not even because it isn’t fun anymore. But on principle. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2001, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-the-white-elephant/75316/87 "2001-08-16T18:24:04Z")
Troy, are you kidding me??? How on earth is hacking a website the same as someone knowing who didn’t send you a box of paperclips??? HACKING WEBSITES IS ILLEGAL. Not sending you a box of crap is jerky at worst. First of all, there’s no evidence the People Pages was hacked. But let’s say there were, and someone knew who did it and kept it a secret from me (which if it _was_ hacked, _somebody_ sure knows about it and _hasn’t_ come forward). SO WHAT??? They’re not obliged to tell me anything they know unless I’m a judge and they’re under subpoena to testify truthfully in a court of law. If I KNEW a PARTICULAR person knew about it and refused to tell me, I’d no longer be friends with that person and move on. Ain’t nothin’ I can do about it but redo the pages anyway, so what’s the point in getting all pissed off? If someone hacked my page, _they_ know they are a piece of scum individual and they have to live with themselves for it. MY best revenge is a life well-lived. As for the exchange, if you don’t want to play because you didn’t get a package last time, so be it, don’t play. If you want to stand on principle over something like this, that’s your prerogative. Just realize that you’ll only be hurting yourself by eliminating yourself from the fun. Then the losers who didn’t send you something last time really will have won. I say don’t let them. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2001, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-the-white-elephant/75316/88 "2001-08-16T18:29:07Z")
Oh, and one more thing. IF my website was hacked, whoever did it, did so purely for the purpose of being malicious. And in doing so, they cost me a **great deal** of time and energy. Please, tell me what _harm_ came to you because you didn’t get a box of crap? ---
**Author:** ![that\_darn\_cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/59ef9b/32.png) [@that\_darn\_cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/that_darn_cat)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2001, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-the-white-elephant/75316/89 "2001-08-16T18:38:08Z")
**Chef** I can see you and I hold some similar ideas about common courtesey, but **Shayna** has a point. The only person you’re hurting by not playing is you…and the lucky Dopers you exchange crap with. I think expecting accountability is a little hard on **Think** too. After all, he volunteered to do this for fun, not to chase people around about their packages, and beating them up about it on the boards would just make him seem like an ogre. So, c’mon, let’s play. And I’ve got some extra crap for you, **Cheffie** **that\_darn\_cat** and **moi** standing by. ---
**Author:** ![eirroc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f1d935/32.png) [@eirroc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eirroc)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2001, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-the-white-elephant/75316/90 "2001-08-16T18:39:09Z")
Oh goody! Count me in this time, I missed it last time round. Info on the way **Thinksnow** ---
**Author:** ![BunnyGirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@BunnyGirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BunnyGirl)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2001, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-the-white-elephant/75316/91 "2001-08-16T18:42:56Z")
Oh **Cheffie** , do play! If I get your name…\…I’ve got some absolutely HORRIBLE kitchen gadgets that I know would just fit into a box designed just for you. Maybe I could dig up a bottle of 8-year old oregano too. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Chef\_Troy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85f322/32.png) [@Chef\_Troy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chef_Troy)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2001, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-the-white-elephant/75316/92 "2001-08-16T19:41:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shayna \* > \*\*Troy, are you kidding me??? How on earth is hacking a website the same as someone knowing who didn’t send you a box of paperclips??? HACKING WEBSITES IS ILLEGAL. Not sending you a box of crap is jerky at worst. \*\* sigh. Let me respond to this by quoting myself in the above message. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by me_ > \*\* (Note: I am NOT implying that someone failing to send me a box of paperclips and ceramic whales is in any way on a par with what happened to the People Pages - it’s just an analogy.) \*\* Clearly this was a _clumsy_ analogy so let me just state the point I tried and failed to make by bringing it up. _If I have knowledge of something that I consider to be wrong and do not stand up and say something about it, my inaction is tantamount to tacit approval._ I have now stood up and said my piece about it by declaring the people in question jerks unless and until they defend themselves with an acceptable explanation. I should not go beyond that and try to persuade everyone just for the pleasure of having them share my views on accountability and courtesy. If such ideals don’t matter to the rest of you or you think the importance of an ideal is relative to the specific circumstances, I won’t try to harangue you into submission. Also, **T.D.C.** is quite right that it is unreasonable for me to expect **thinksnow** to reveal the names. I feel strongly about the principle (note: for the nth time, I couldn’t begin to give a shit about the package at this point) but it’s not fair for me to demand that he join me in wanting to point the finger at the people in question just because he knows who they are and I don’t. I’m backing off from that. One last quote: > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Shayna_ > \*\*If you want to stand on principle over something like this, that’s your prerogative. Just realize that you’ll only be hurting yourself by eliminating yourself from the fun. Then the losers who didn’t send you something last time really will have won. I say don’t let them. \*\* I know a lot of people look at the world this way, but I say that standing on principle is never more important than when doing so inconveniences you. So **Thinksnow,** please remove my name from participation in this exchange. ---
**Author:** ![thinksnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thinksnow/32/2849_2.png) [@thinksnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thinksnow)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2001, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-the-white-elephant/75316/93 "2001-08-16T20:19:23Z")
**Chef** I understand your position and will do as you request. If you happen to receive an apology (or package) from your person, though, do consider going in on round two. No hard feelings on this end. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2001, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-the-white-elephant/75316/94 "2001-08-16T20:38:01Z")
I’m in! I just moved so I have lots of cra-- uh, stuff to send to someone else. 🙂 And I know we’re not supposed to make requests [sub]KEYCHAIN[/sub] , but I actually broke my KEYCHAIN just yesterday, which I’d just like to mention here [sub]KEYCHAIN[/sub] , just kind of apropos of nothing [sub]KEYCHAIN[/sub] . Chef, since you asked (and ONLY s.y.a.), I think you’re overreacting a wee tad and you ought to play again. It’ll be fun. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Chef\_Troy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85f322/32.png) [@Chef\_Troy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chef_Troy)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2001, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-the-white-elephant/75316/95 "2001-08-16T22:49:30Z")
Darn it, this got all serious so fast that I didn’t get a chance to post my smartass remark, which was that when I spotted this thread out of the corner of my eye, I thought it said “Rectum of the White Elephant.” Sounds like bestiality porn from India. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2001, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-the-white-elephant/75316/96 "2001-08-16T23:24:14Z")
Sorry, Chef, I’m with the ones who just want to play and have fun. If I didn’t get something, I’ll just remember a quotation from my mother “If that’s the worst thing that ever happens to you, you’re lucky” And, like some others have said, I have some GREAT cr…, uh, stuff to send along this time,even better than the Noah’s Ark music box I sent last time, the one that played “Climb Every Mountain.” ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2001, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-the-white-elephant/75316/97 "2001-08-17T00:14:38Z")
well golly jodi, you wouldn’t believe what i got in the mail today from snapple. ooooooo, keychain, oooooo, with snap ring. ooooo. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2001, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-the-white-elephant/75316/98 "2001-08-17T00:20:18Z")
You too, **rocking chair**? Not only have I received two of the lovely Snapple keychains, I’ve already set aside one to go into the fabulous box of crap I’ll be sending out. Here’s hoping that the _crazy-mix-o-matic multi-function trans-lux muti-plexing-randomizer_ gives me your name, **Jodi**. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Zappo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b3f665/32.png) [@Zappo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zappo)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2001, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-the-white-elephant/75316/99 "2001-08-17T00:23:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by thinksnow \* > \*\ ***Bouv** , you add’y has been updated. > **Zappo** , back-checking, I see your situation was resolved earlier this month, yes? \*\* Yes sir, Mr. Snow sir, I’ve corresponded with the other party and am awaiting a package as we speak. I’m sure I can find some more cra. . .shi. . .er, neat stuff to send along for Round 2, so count me in if it ain’t too late! I’ll send confirmation to your high-tech special email address. Yours in knickknackitude, Zappo ---
**Author:** ![Gravity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gravity/32/14322_2.png) [@Gravity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gravity)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2001, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-the-white-elephant/75316/100 "2001-08-17T15:57:45Z")
This is gonna be so fun! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-the-white-elephant/75316.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-the-white-elephant/75316.md?page=6)