# The return of Yellowstone **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted\ **Created:** [October 7, 2022, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-yellowstone/972899 "2022-10-07T14:05:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-yellowstone/972899/1 "2022-10-07T14:05:19Z")
The _Yellowstone_ trailer dropped and has had millions of views. Looks like it will remain one of the most popular shows in this new streaming TV world. I liked the show very much in the first couple of seasons. Seasons 3 and more so 4 became a bit muddled. Plot threads were started and went no where. Beth became more of a cartoon character. The best “villain” was killed off. I’m hoping they tighten up the plot going forward. There are still solid acting performances by most of the cast. One thing I’m wondering is if they are going to kill off Monica quickly. The character can be annoying but the casting controversy may be her undoing. If you hadn’t heard Kelsey Asbille (real name Kelsey Asbille Chow) claims to have some Cherokee ancestry but that appears to be false. She is certainly not a member of any nation. Her father is Chinese and her mother is white. Some prominent native actors like Wes Studi have spoken out against the casting. This is a show that has tried to have accurate and multi-faceted portrayals of Native-Americans. I understand Taylor Sheridan worked closely with the Crow tribal chairman and was allowed to film on the reservation. All that makes me think that Monica will have a dramatic death. Season 5 is going to start in November. The latest spin off will premiere in December. The working title of the new series was _1932_ but it was changed to _1923._ So that changes it from the tail end of prohibition to the beginning/middle. I can’t help but think that’s deliberate. I’m going to guess organized crime and smuggling from Canada will play a prominent role. It will be starring Harrison Ford and Helen Mirren. I’m assuming it will be a limited run series like _1883._ I think _1883_ benefitted from being limited. It was one of my favorite things on TV in recent history which along with the cast of _1923_ gives me hope that this will be equally good. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-yellowstone/972899/2 "2022-10-07T14:27:37Z")
Thanks for the update I think I’m looking more forward to seeing 1923 based upon how well they did 1883. As for Yellowstone, yeah its getting long in the tooth and has become too much of soap opera drama where the main characters are too invincible. Still I’ll watch it. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2022, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-yellowstone/972899/3 "2022-10-11T20:51:12Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > it will remain one of the most popular shows in this new streaming TV world Not sure if you are saying it is a streaming show…it’s a cable show primarily on the Paramount network. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2022, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-yellowstone/972899/4 "2022-10-11T21:21:24Z")
You’re right of course but that is only when it first comes on then it goes to Peacock. _1883_ was a Paramount + exclusive. I’m assuming _1923_ will be streaming on Paramount + as well. ---
**Author:** ![McDeath\_the\_Mad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a3d4f5/32.png) [@McDeath\_the\_Mad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/McDeath_the_Mad)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2022, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-yellowstone/972899/5 "2022-10-12T16:29:29Z")
FYI in Canada, it streams on Amazon Prime premiering on the same day as it does on Paramount. MtM ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2022, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-yellowstone/972899/6 "2022-10-12T16:51:34Z")
If everyone who claimed to be Cherokee was actually of that heritage, the tribal population would probably quintuple. I think people like to claim it because they think it sounds cool, and a lot of folks claim it because their uncle/father/whoever passed it on as family lore, usually along the lines of “your great-great grandmother was a Cherokee princess” (Native tribes don’t have princesses), while others are just plain guilty of cultural appropriation. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2022, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-yellowstone/972899/7 "2022-10-12T16:56:06Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > usually along the lines of “your great-great grandmother was a Cherokee princess” Who was raped by your great-great grandfather. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2022, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-yellowstone/972899/8 "2022-10-12T22:47:31Z")
There are also a lot of people who have and indication of Native heritage show up on a DNA search. I’m one of them, but it’s like .02%, which is likely just an anomaly, and certainly not a basis for claiming ancestral connections. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2022, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-yellowstone/972899/9 "2022-10-13T01:36:20Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > If everyone who claimed to be Cherokee was actually of that heritage, the tribal population would probably quintuple. I think people like to claim it because they think it sounds cool, and a lot of folks claim it because their uncle/father/whoever passed it on as family lore, usually along the lines of “your great-great grandmother was a Cherokee princess” (Native tribes don’t have princesses), while others are just plain guilty of cultural appropriation. That’s true. But I think it’s a little different when you are telling your buddies you are part Cherokee than if you are the actor with the most prominent native part in a show that is actively trying to have well rounded Indian characters. This was the quote from Delanna Studi: “If it was more of a level playing field — where our Native actors were being cast as leads in How to Get Away With Murder or Grey’s Anatomy, where they can just be a human being — then there wouldn’t be this need for us to be protective of the roles that are just for us.” Adam Beach was the first one to raise the issue publicly. Sure it’s possible to keep Kelsey Absille in the role. She doesn’t look out of place despite having no apparent native ancestry. But it may prove difficult to ignore the questions. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2022, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-yellowstone/972899/10 "2022-12-20T14:34:32Z")
This show is the slowly boiling frog of preposterous. That’s it. That’s the review. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-yellowstone/972899/11 "2023-01-02T20:02:45Z")
Last night’s episode may have been the most poorly written episode of television I have seen in years. I don’t know what the rule for spoilers are here, but a major character is shown to have a revelation to a piece of knowledge to which they have already known. The shock of this revelation drove them to confront another character. About something they already knew about and accepted. Just… bad. How did nobody catch this? Also, a 60 minute episode and about 20 of those minutes were cowboying shots set to the songs of whatever artist they’re plugging this week. It just sucked. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2023, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-yellowstone/972899/12 "2023-01-03T01:08:25Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Last night’s episode may have been the most poorly written episode of television I have seen in years. I don’t know what the rule for spoilers are here, but a major character is shown to have a revelation to a piece of knowledge to which they have already known. The shock of this revelation drove them to confront another character. About something they already knew about and accepted. > > Just… bad. How did nobody catch this? Beth **didn’t** know that John has been using the Train Station to dump bodies for years. She just followed Jamie there and caught him dumping his fathers body. That’s all she knew about that place til now. I did enjoy Jamie finally getting one over on Beth. Her look of complete surprise was so very satisfying. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2023, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-yellowstone/972899/13 "2023-01-03T03:49:13Z")
But that doesn’t make sense. You can’t follow someone in the middle of nowhere. She would have been seen. The only way that scene would make sense is if she knew where he was going and she was waiting for him. When I watched that scene originally I thought that’s what happened. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2023, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-yellowstone/972899/14 "2023-01-03T03:52:36Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Also, a 60 minute episode and about 20 of those minutes were cowboying shots set to the songs of whatever artist they’re plugging this week. That’s the strength of the show. The ranch, the cowboys and every character that isn’t Beth. Those were my favorite parts. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-yellowstone/972899/15 "2023-01-04T02:47:30Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > Beth **didn’t** know that John has been using the Train Station to dump bodies for years. She just followed Jamie there and caught him dumping his fathers body. That’s all she knew about that place til now. No, you’re right, she followed Jamie. But then, that brings up @Loach’s point - how can she follow him to a place literally in the middle of nowhere w/o being seen? (Don’t bother answering, it’s just the nature of the medium. We see it all the time, characters reacting to someone appearing 10 feet away, making me wonder _why didn’t they see them approach?_) Look, I just think that the entire Beth story is a damn mess. I am going on the record as stating that there is no way, NO WAY, a 1990s-era Native American abortion clinic is going to perform a hysterectomy on a white teenage girl, without telling her what is going to happen. They would send Beth packing “Go home to your mother, little girl. This isn’t the answer for you.” “State regulations forbid us from…”. Something. _ **They are not sterilizing a white teenage girl, especially without telling her.** _ But then they make this story line even more preposterous. By adding two more _shows_ about the hundred-year rise of the Dutton family as a violent political and economic force, a family steeped in the legends of Montana… now we are supposed to believe that this indigenous abortion, er, hysterectomy clinic, performed this procedure on _John Dutton’s own daughter_? It’s to laugh. Same thing with this Beth/Train Station issue. Are we supposed to believe that the sharpest-eyed person on the ranch isn’t noticing the trail of bodies? “Where’s Dad going with Rip?” “Just go back to bed, honey.” “Dad, where did you and Rip go last night?” \< bunch of shit breaks \> "Rip, where did you and Dad go last night? \< More shit breaks, Rip ends up with a cut on his cheek. \> I mean, this is good, goofy fun, and Costner is in a role absolutely made for him. I think it works best as a story about a father and his complicated relations with his three children, and some of the best writing and lines play on those themes. My favorite is when John tells the Senator (I believe) “I have one child I’m proud of, one child I feel sorry for, and one child I detest.” (paraphrased.) It’s moments like this where Yellowstone shines for me, but a tautly-plotted drama it is not, and the Beth story is particularly impacted by this laziness. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-yellowstone/972899/16 "2023-01-04T13:56:18Z")
[quote=“JohnT, post:15, topic:972899, full:true”] > [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > I mean, this is good, goofy fun, and Costner is in a role absolutely made for him. I think it works best as a story about a father and his complicated relations with his three children, and some of the best writing and lines play on those themes. My favorite is when John tells the Senator (I believe) “I have one child I’m proud of, one child I feel sorry for, and one child I detest.” (paraphrased.) It’s moments like this where Yellowstone shines for me, but a tautly-plotted drama it is not, and the Beth story is particularly impacted by this laziness. They actual turn when Beth realized that her trump card was useless was well done. I agree that her not knowing is a plot hole. I have not started to watch _1923._ The cast alone will get me to watch. I thought _1883_ was one of the best shows in recent memory. _Yellowstone_ was well written in the first two seasons but the plot has become a mess since then. Luke Grimes is woefully underused. Beth has become a cartoon character. She would have been ostracized long ago if there was anything real about her. The other characters are worth watching. As for the Beth abortion story line, wasn’t it the fact they are Duttons the reason why it happened? I’m not motivated enough to seek out the scene but didn’t Jamie use “Do you know who my father is?” Memory might be failing but I thought they took her no questions asked because they thought it was a Dutton bringing some random girl they knocked up. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-return-of-yellowstone/972899/17 "2023-01-04T17:00:11Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Look, I just think that the entire Beth story is a damn mess. But not the only mess. In addition to Beth, there is of course Jamie (and Jamie’s father and child/child’s mother) and also the White Supremacist Militia™ that serves as a convenient cartoon villain when they want to have a shootout, but can’t figure out how to write it into any one of the long simmering conflicts without completely breaking the show. I mean, they go from the Corporate Boss Lady Villain™ talking about engaging more like it’s Yemen (bringing up visions of drone strikes and armed raids) to the big end of year shoot out, only to then reveal “Surprise! It was this white supremacist militia still holding a grudge all along!” And we’re suppose to believe that Jamie’s dad, whose single noteworthy “accomplishment” is murdering Jamie’s mother… has the kind of power and influence to arrange all this via his buddy who _is still in freaking prison_? And coincidentally, he just _happened_ to use the same pulled-from-thin-air militia as the Beck brothers??? I’m sorry. No. What I saw, when I watched _Yellowstone_ for the first time (binged as it was playing on Paramount Network), is a show with so much set up and frustratingly little pay off. It wants to be _The Godfather_ meets _Game of Thrones_ and to some degree it succeeds, but all too often that involves channeling _The Godfather III_ and _Game of Thrones_ season 8, maybe 5 thru 7 on a good day. If only they had committed to a three or four season run with definite milestones and end points, it could have been great. Instead, it seems poised to be slowly snuffed out by its own longevity. ETA: But you know what I think the biggest mess is? The one that could have, if nearly resolved, avoided so many of these other messes? Jamie murdering the reporter. Because if Jamie hadn’t murdered the reporter, (1) we might actually still be capable of sympathizing with Jamie, and (2) it could have headed off a lot of this increasingly bizarre conflict between Jamie and Beth by diverting us into a much more interesting storyline where the Duttons have to circle the wagons against increasing scrutiny from both the authorities and the public at large, and really do end up as something more like the Corleones, having to preside over a criminal underworld of sorts rather than exercise power through public office and legal enterprises.