It really doesn’t matter if inequality is intentional or not. If nothing is done about it, the charge of racism is sure to crop up.
My major beef with Jackson is that he spends more time talking about blame than about solutions. Many of his detractors are guilty of blindly defending the status quo from the likes of Jackson and refusing to even acknowledge there is a problem.
Zero:
You’ve obviously not been paying attention. There are quite a few issues. For one, Jackson and quite a few other more rational folks, I might add, are maintaining that a significant number of blacks were denied the opportunity to vote due to poor record keeping in poorer precincts, such that voter registrations could not be confirmed. They also blame faulty, ancient equipment, inadequate help, voting hours that favor wealthier precincts, and outright intimidation of black voters by white election officials.
There seems little doubt that there is a problem and it’s a disservice to imply that the primary issue is mispunched cards.
Veering off-topic:
Since there was no statewide or nationwide set of consistent guidelines that govern the election proper, it strikes me as unsound to argue against the non-standardness of the recount process. Actually, if anything, the recount process was faulty because it was more accurate than the existing process. Human judgement is still much more reliable than machine non judgement.
Again, you’ve not been paying attention. The Gore folks said all along that they would be happy with a statewide recount, but they were willing to live with a partial recount because they felt that was all they needed and they felt that it would be too difficult to seek a statewide recount.
I find his involvement in the West African “peace process” in Sierra Leone and Liberia to be pretty disgusting. (See “Where Angels Fear to Tread” by Ryan Lizza from The New Republic.)
To coin a phrase, “No Justice–No Peace”.
friend mahaloth,
you wrote:
it would seem that this was exactly the conservative’s reaction to mr. clinton’s win over mr. bush (sr) and again over mr. dole.
fair would seem to be fair. i wonder if all of the folks who called mr. clinton a “that draft dodger” will now refer to mr. bush (jr) as “that drunken driver”
and how about a kenneth star style ongoing investigation into mr. bush’s conduct in the national guard? there seems to be some questions that would bear some looking into.
or is it only fair to put politicians that you don’t agree with under a microscope and examine each and everything they have ever done or said?
longhair
Seems to me we’ve come a long way since the 60’s, but maybe not. I see black leaders still referred to as agitators unjustly stirring up the black population. As far as I’m concerned, racism is alive and well in the general poulation, only way more subtle.
Let’s see four or five times more votes voided in urban counties…
Maybe just maybe, a more “urban” county has four or five or even twenty times the population as a more rural one. Your Arguement is either mis-stated or this is just a fact that you are trying to make sound like a support for your argument. There is no “Fact” supporting your argument as conclusive or even probable. Where is your source? Don’t give me some news organization that will print whatever JJ says as fact.
From (Dis)Counting the Black Vote by Arianna Huffington (no Gore supporter, she)
"A detailed analysis of the Florida vote by The Washington Post last week produced a staggering finding: the higher the percentage of black voters, the higher the rate of rejected ballots. For instance, up to a third of the ballots cast in Jacksonville’s black precincts were tossed out – four times more than in neighboring white precincts…
In the precincts of the other America, there were longer lines, more unreliable voting machines and less access to technology that instantly identified mismarked ballots and gave voters a second chance…
The African-American turnout in Florida was an astounding 65 percent higher than in 1996…The problem was that when many of these freshly registered voters showed up at the polls, they were not on the rolls and were not allowed to vote. First-time voter Dedrana McCray was one of them. She arrived at her polling place in Opa-Locka with her valid voter registration card and ID in hand, but was turned away because she was not on the list, and phone lines to the county office that could verify her status were constantly busy…
Too bad McCray didn’t live in one of the 18 more affluent precincts in the county that were equipped by the election commission with laptop computers that allowed them to tie into the main registration rolls. Even though the powers that be, from Gov. Jeb Bush down, knew that the highest number of new registrants were in black districts, the laptops went disproportionately to white or Cuban-American districts."
Here’s the link: http://www.ariannaonline.com/columns/files/120700.html
For the record, it seems Jackson & co. are just (or almost) as upset at Gore for not being as strident about this issue. I don’t think there’s any way to quantify the effects all these variables had on the specific FLA vote count, but just like the butterfly ballot, something is wrong here and it’s unfortunate that people are too ready to dismiss it as “playing the race card.” This does not mean overturning the election, but it does mean recognizing the existence of a genuine problem. Does Jackson cry wolf a little too often? Maybe, but there is still a remarkable amount of inequity out there, and an investigation into this (as well as larger election-reform initiatives) is certainly in order.
I won’t say I agree with some of Jackson’s agenda/philosophy, but I did stand ten feet away from him once when he gave a protest speech, and he was easily the most electrifying orator I’ve ever seen (an effect that’s largely diminished when you see him on TV)
Mashie,
My apologies. That line should read “In urban counties, votes were voided at a rate of four or five times higher than that in other counties.”
Population has nothing to do with it. In a county that used optical scanners the percentage of “undervotes” was one quarter that of a county that used punch cards.
In addition to The Washington Post analysis mentioned in ArchiveGuy’s post you might also want to check out the front page feature in the December 11 edition of The Los Angeles Times.
There is a pile of evidence of voting inequities in the 2000 election. Whether Bush was the benifactor of these inequities is now a moot point, however if people like yourself choose to remain ignorant of them in your effort to prop up his legitamacy, people like Jackson will have no choice but to keep yelling until you finally choose to hear the truth.
I voted in Hillsborough county. Like many counties we have urban and rural areas. I voted in a relatively nice suburb and we use the same votomatics. So, there is no hard evidence of dimpled chads being a problem; and if they were it could have been a problem in my precinct. Should I start a revolution because my vote MIGHT have been MIGHT not have been counted. We will never know. Yes, If a problem is found with the votomatics it should be improved. But a problem must be found, not a “possibilty” to justify rantings
I don’t know about starting a revolution but as someone who is obligated to use a system that has a better chance of throwing out your vote than those used in other counties you should be conserned.
How are you going to feel in four years if the counties on the SE coast have upgraded their machines and you’re still stuck with punch cards that void your neighbors’ votes at a higher rate? I’m sure it won’t matter to you until your candidate loses by the few hundred votes voided by your county’s outdated machines.
“We have difficulty certifying Bush on moral grounds…,” complains Jackson. “I’ve seen a day like this. Selma, Alabama, was a day like this when we [blacks] were fighting for the right to vote. … The same forces that were against the Voting Rights Act of 1965…seek to disenfranchise us in 2000.”
Memo to Jesse: The Voting Rights Act of 1965 received overwhelming support from Republicans – 82% Republican support in the House and 94% support in the Senate. More than a third of Senate Democrats voted against the act!
Source: The Federalist
Mashie:
No, the problem exists. The only “MIGHT” in the equation is were you personally affected. If you can’t trust the voting process to reflect your intent, then why vote? The worst thing about this fiasco is that it has validated the opinions of those people who don’t bother to vote because they don’t feel their vote counts…
Irrelevant. It’s a human rights issue, not a party issue.
[QUOTE]
**
**Originally posted by Mashie
**
Originally posted by JoeyBlades
Not true, As I quoted Jesse Jackson in my post he said, “The same forces that were against the Voting Rights Act of 1965”. Now we know who the “forces” Jesse refers to is meant to be Republicans. I am just pointing out that when he drags out the Voting Rights Act, and says that Republicans were against it. He is lying…and people are buying. You for instance?
wharever small amount of credibility that he had left, he lost when he tried to get those hoodlums that were fighting at the football game back in school.(about 2 years ago in Illinois, i think)
“The forces” to which JJ referred could be taken to mean “the Southern white power structure”- Demo in '65 and GOP in '00. He did not claim the Republicans of 1965 voted against the Act, he was claiming the Florida GOP of today are in some sense the philosophical descendants of the Southern Democrats of the early '60s.
Others have already posted details of some of the serious problems which faced many black voters. Regardless of who we wanted to win the past election, if we are committed to democratic principles we should make sure they are these problems are not repeated, for any group.
Sheesh- there are more than enough valid grounds to attack JJ on, why do people have to condemn the only correct thing he’s done in years? (And even worse, force me to swallow my dislike of him and come to his defense)
It was last year in Decatur, Illinois, just 40 miles down the road from me. Then this year there’s the whole Bridgestone/Firestone defective tire debacle, most of which were made in Decatur. It’s been a hard coupla years for those folks.
Mashie:
Perhaps you know this through some psychic link with Mr. Jackson, but I think the rest of us took his reference to “forces” to be the more generic forces of racism.
I would venture to say that Jesse Jackson is equally appalled by Democratic racists as Republican racists. The fact is, that racism is not a Democratic/Republican thing - it’s a people thing. And more importantly, while it can be an individual thing - the real damage comes from societies that behave in racially motivated ways. This kind of racism is usually more subtle and much more difficult to combat. Certainly, because Jackson is a Democrat, he will tend toward anti-Republican rhetoric. However, because the powers that could have affected the societal racial problems in the Florida election process were largely Republican, it’s certainly understandable that they drew even more fire from Mr. Jackson (and other Black Democrats).
The problem exists, and it’s entirely likely that the Republicans exploited the problem (through inaction) to secure the Florida vote in this very, very tight election.
nebuli:
My sentiments, exactly!