# The RIAA should copulate with themselves **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 18, 2000, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-riaa-should-copulate-with-themselves/22765 "2000-06-18T07:31:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2000, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-riaa-should-copulate-with-themselves/22765/21 "2000-06-19T14:59:23Z")
I was wondering when that point was going to come up, because I’d heard that artists make very little money off album sales (often less than one dollar, divided among group members; debut albums are the worst of all). That’s why groups always go on tour, promoting the album; they make money from sponsorships and ticket sales, the studio gets money from the album sales, and everyone’s reasonably happy. MP3 is really screwing the record production companies, not the artists themselves. Unfortunately, the production companies tend to have MUCH better lawyers than the artists… ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2000, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-riaa-should-copulate-with-themselves/22765/22 "2000-06-19T15:54:21Z")
Sorry to jump in late, but I about fell out of my chair laughing when I read this from **Rousseau** : > [@](#): > > The end of studio work would be horrendous for music. In a world without studio albums, I do not wish to live. Yeah, wouldn’t it suck if all we had were live performances? Man, music would suck. We’d be stuck with shitty hack jobs like, oh, Mozart. Music’s been around a helluva lot longer than studio recordings. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2000, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-riaa-should-copulate-with-themselves/22765/23 "2000-06-19T16:59:12Z")
As one of the 80% who does use Napster, let me share some of my positions on this: First of all, my tastes in music are fairly defined. Having grown up in the 1980’s, that’s the kind of music I like. Unfortunately, most of the songs I like come from one-hit wonder groups who, for whatever reason, don’t have their song in a compilation, nor do they have the original album still available. I wouldn’t have a problem paying for these songs if I had to, since I believe in rewarding people for their work. Second, I’ve noticed that some albums I’d kill to buy just aren’t available, unless it’s at a prohibitively expensive cost. I’ve seen CDNow sell “imports” for as much as thirty-five dollars, while the “American” version of the same album is out of print. And I don’t have the time to go digging thru garage sales and used record stores. Third, for most of the songs that aren’t in groups 1 or 2, I already own the album, but it’s in a cassette format where I can’t listen to it without schlepping my tape player around. Finally, I think the RIAA is really barking up the wrong tree. They need to be going after the true pirates, who copy and sell albums, not those of us who use what we download for personal use. Robin ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2000, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-riaa-should-copulate-with-themselves/22765/24 "2000-06-19T23:08:26Z")
> [@](#): > > The end of studio work would be horrendous for music. In a world without studio albums, I do not wish to live. And this from a fellow Phish fan, fercryinoutloud. Dr. J ---
**Author:** ![Eo\_Echo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ebca7d/32.png) [@Eo\_Echo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eo_Echo)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2000, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-riaa-should-copulate-with-themselves/22765/25 "2000-06-20T00:21:30Z")
Well, bear in mind that without recording studios, we’d have to endure even more horrible live albums from the likes of Ozzy Osbourne. I still maintain that a compromise can be reached. It is possible that this Metallica business will lead to some kind of precedent in that direction. I would like to see that. After all, the bottom line on Napster is still that it can, if used improperly, circumvent the royalty process, which, lest we forget, a lot of non-famous, non-rich artists depend on to make a living. ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2000, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-riaa-should-copulate-with-themselves/22765/26 "2000-06-20T04:47:36Z")
As for your “End of Studio” remark, let ask you something: do you really like Sisqo’s startchy studio version of “Thong Song” over the unbelievably brillant and raunchy live version? ---
**Author:** ![Rousseau](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Rousseau](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rousseau)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2000, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-riaa-should-copulate-with-themselves/22765/27 "2000-06-20T15:23:22Z")
Okay, latest first. > [@](#): > > As for your “End of Studio” remark, let ask you something: do you really like Sisqo’s startchy studio version of “Thong Song” over the unbelievably brillant and raunchy live version? You jest, right? “Sisqo” and “brilliant” are two words that don’t belong in the same sentence. DoctorJ: Phish is a rare band who evolve their music on stage. For the majority of other bands, though, the most creative music comes out of the studio. And once again, andros manages to make an ass of himself: > [@](#): > > Yeah, wouldn’t it suck if all we had were live performances? Man, music would suck. We’d be stuck with shitty hack jobs like, oh, Mozart. > > Music’s been around a helluva lot longer than studio recordings. Indeed. And literature’s been around a helluva lot longer than the printing press. Does that mean we could do without that? To neutron star and everyone else who says that Napster is for “borrowing” or “sampling” music: you’re full of shit and you know it. Once you download an mp3, it’s yours. You keep it. Now, if you’re the very noble type, who downloads the songs and then goes out and buys the album to support the artist, that’s one thing. But I don’t think there are too many of you running around (I’ve never met one in person). And don’t try and tell me that it’s impossible to get perfect-quality mp3’s, you liar. And I see neutron star is still struggling with that reading thing. Hang in there. I said: > [@](#): > > Many of Lars’ qualms with Napster have nothing to do with money. And neutron said: > [@](#): > > If Lars is so damned concerned about artists getting ripped off… Listen to me: Lars is NOT concerned about the money (mostly). His beef is over his right to control the distribution of his property. > [@](#): > > If I wrote a book, which one day I plan on doing, and I make millions of dollars off of it, and THEN somebody began posting on the web, I probably wouldn’t have aproblem with it. But that’s just the point: people are posting music on Napster before the record sells any copies. Lars hit the ceiling when Metallica’s song for the MI-2 soundtrack was all over Napster _before they even finished it in the studio_. > [@](#): > > To me any type of creative art, no matter what kind, is aboiut the joy of CREATING. Not turning a profit. And I really have little patience with people who lose sight of creating because of green piece of paper that really don’t measure you as an artist, or a person. > Maybe the reward should be personal gratification. Not a check. Maybe the work of art should be beyond rewards, and more than money. And that’s exactly why we have to support the artists, instead of taking the things that they’ve created for free. If we don’t, then they’ll have to do other things in order to survive, and they’ll no longer be able to create art. Sure, the primary goal of art shouldn’t be profit, but being able to eat comes before expressing yourself. capacitor, you must remember that correlation does not prove causation. Napster is started, CD sales go up. Although they both occured, there’s no reason for me to believe that one caused the other. In fact, the majority of the evidence would prove otherwise. As I said before, the increase in album sales was just about par for the course over the last number of years, and (if you “look at the stats”) where Napster has gone, CD sales have gone down, especially in small, independently-owned record stores. Maybe I just don’t see how you guys, in good conscience, can support and participate in taking something that somebody put their heart and soul into for free, because you’ve convinced yourselves that you have some God-given right to it. You don’t, and all the rationalizing in the world isn’t going to change the fact that you’re stealing from these people. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2000, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-riaa-should-copulate-with-themselves/22765/28 "2000-06-20T15:53:39Z")
> [@](#): > > That’s why groups always go on tour, promoting the album; they make money from sponsorships and ticket sales, the studio gets money from the album sales, and everyone’s reasonably happy. Actually, the record company, especially with groups who are just debuting, keeps that money, too. They know that record sales aren’t guaranteed, so they send artists on tour to make money and recoup their advances. Artists, unless they are enormously successful and develop a big catalog, with rights reverting to them after a time, are often about 3 months away from needing a day job. I don’t understand why some people still seem to think it’s OK to simply steal their work without compensating. ---
**Author:** ![Necros](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/necros/32/11086_2.png) [@Necros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Necros)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2000, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-riaa-should-copulate-with-themselves/22765/29 "2000-06-20T19:06:37Z")
**neutron star** said: > [@](#): > > You can read a book for free at the library, but you have to pay money if you want to own a hard copy of it. Huh? No, you can’t. _You_ as in the tiny, inconsequential you, can go into a library and read a book for free, but _you_ as in “people” can’t. See, someone has to pay for all those books in the library. They don’t just fall out of the sky for you to read. And who pays for them? Oh yeah: YOU! Your tax dollars go to buying those books, or someone donates them, or a foundation buys them. But they are most definitely not free. And **pepperlandgirl** : Wow. I guess I expected you to be a little more clueful and less Pollyanna about this. I can assure you that pretty much every other writer out there disagrees with you. You say that you hope to write a book someday, but that the payoff is in the “creative flow” or whatever. I’m sure your agent will be very happy to hear that. Or, you can give your work away on the internet. But, boy, let me tell you: Writing a book is hard. It is hard and it takes a long time. It is hard, takes a long time, and is an incredible emotional investment. And I believe, as do most writers, that I should be compensated for my very hard work. I also think that if I invest the time, not only in writing a book, but in learning enough to be able to write a book, that I should be able to make that my profession, and be paid. Just like if I go to medical school for many years and go through residency I should be compensated for my doctoring skills. I may love to save lives and perform good deeds for people, but ask a doctor if he’d put up with all the shit that goes along with the good stuff for free and I almost guarantee he or she will laugh in your face. ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2000, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-riaa-should-copulate-with-themselves/22765/30 "2000-06-20T19:41:10Z")
> [@](#): > > And don’t try and tell me that it’s impossible to get perfect-quality mp3’s, you liar. Rousseau loves to toss around words like “liar” without anything to base it on besides his poor hearing. This explains it better than I can : > [@](#): > > MP3 at 128kb/s does a horrible job of handling treble detail. If you listen carefully you will hear a ‘swishy’ texture to the cymbal crashes and other high-frequency sounds in many of your mp3 recordings. It’s not TRUE 44.1 > kilohertz output - only the source was. At 112kb/s this problem is painfully obvious, but it’s definately there at 128kb/s too. another gem from our good friend, Rousseau : > [@](#): > > His beef is over his right to control the distribution of his property. Really? He didn’t say a damn word when the recording industry recently pushed a bill through Congress in the middle of the night that gives perpetual ownership of musical work to the record companies - artists used to get their work back after thirty years. Not anymore. Lars didn’t seem to be concerned enough about controlling the distribution of his property to get off his overrated ass and say anything about this bill. He’s one of the favorite bitches of the record companies. ---
**Author:** ![Falcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/49beb7/32.png) [@Falcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falcon)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2000, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-riaa-should-copulate-with-themselves/22765/31 "2000-06-20T20:31:08Z")
Random comment here, since I have no intelligent comments to make on Napster. PHIL’S BACK IN THE PIT!!! WOOHOOO!!! Sorry. Needed to be done. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2000, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-riaa-should-copulate-with-themselves/22765/32 "2000-06-20T21:19:10Z")
Now, now, **Rousseau**. I don’t “make an ass of myself,” pally. It’s a natural state of being. There’s no off switch. All I’m saying is that equating “studio” with “music” is a bit much. I’m sorry you “wouldn’t want to live” in a world without studio work, but to say that music would die without it has no basis. 'Course, I’m biased, as I prefer to record live. Nevertheless, as a musician, I agree very strongly that recording and distributing music without paying royalties is theft. Unfortunately, I don’t see killing Napster to be a solution. -andros- ---
**Author:** ![Rousseau](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Rousseau](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rousseau)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2000, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-riaa-should-copulate-with-themselves/22765/33 "2000-06-22T15:07:26Z")
neutron star: maybe you should educate yourself about this issue before you make a further ass of yourself. If you actually listen to what Metallica is saying, their concern is with not being able to control the way in which their music is distributed. Obviously they feel that they have more control with the record company than with Napster. The law you’re referring to has to do with royalties, which is another issue (for most people royalties are the main issue with Napster, but not for Metallica). All they want to do is get some kind of regulation around the distribution of music on the Internet. ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2000, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-riaa-should-copulate-with-themselves/22765/34 "2000-06-23T04:18:56Z")
Yes rosseau, and music companies under the new law control all the royalties of a record forever. Meet the new slavemasters. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2000, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-riaa-should-copulate-with-themselves/22765/35 "2000-06-23T14:53:13Z")
But not the song itself, capacitor, and that’s where the _real_ royalties are. The publisher has the rights to that, and in most popular music, the publisher is the writer. The record could never sell another copy, but as long as the radio plays it and people perform it, the publisher continues to make money. ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2000, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-riaa-should-copulate-with-themselves/22765/36 "2000-06-24T04:48:49Z")
In the business, the rights to the song is everything. That belings to the record producer. If you as a musician got an unresolved beef and jump record companies, the rights to your records stays with the old record company. Unless you made a good contract, you must receive permission from the old record company to even do a re-mix. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Silver\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Fire)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2000, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-riaa-should-copulate-with-themselves/22765/37 "2000-06-24T05:51:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\* > …for most people royalties are the main issue with Napster, but not for Metallica… > \*\* Lars? Is that you? No? You’re not Lars?? James? Are you James? NO?? Well are you a member of Metallica? _gasps_ You’re NOT??? Oh, well, in that case: _How the hell do you know??_ Okay, so Lars did a few interviews in which he said ‘Oh, no. We don’t care about the money. We just want everything to be fair’ or some other bit of outrageous bullshit. I’d be willing to bet a piece of my anatomy that he finished up those interviews, went back to his bus or whatever, and started bitching about ‘those hoodlums stealing my great works of art on purpose…little bastards how dare they steal from me, the great and powerful, Lars!’ Okay, so maybe that went a bit far, but you know that money is an issue in there somewhere and you won’t ever make me believe that it isn’t. Say it, say it, and say it again, I CAN’T HEAR YOU! It’s ridiculous to even try to believe that. I won’t even believe that money is only a SMALL part. Think about it. How would it have looked to the public and Metallica’s adoring fans if Lars had just gone out there and openly admitted to everyone that all they, Metallica, are really about is being able to fuck you up the ass while they have their hand in your pocket? That probably would have done some damage on their fan base. So he sugar-coated it by saying it wasn’t fair that they, Metallica, were no longer in control of the distribution of their property. Boo fucking hoo. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-riaa-should-copulate-with-themselves/22765.md?page=1)