# The right to bear arms **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 17, 2017, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-to-bear-arms/780056 "2017-02-17T15:12:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2017, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-to-bear-arms/780056/241 "2017-03-13T13:34:57Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > XT, > > A God that does not endorse self defense - Jesus Christ. > > Crane And yet his church has been OK with killing others in self defense for over a thousand years. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2017, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-to-bear-arms/780056/242 "2017-03-13T15:06:38Z")
Damuri, Agreed - those are establishments of religion. I was referring to the words of the God. Crane ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2017, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-to-bear-arms/780056/243 "2017-03-13T15:11:18Z")
Damuri#240, IF natural rights are the result of ‘reason’ and religion then is the US Constitution a religious document? Crane ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2017, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-to-bear-arms/780056/244 "2017-03-13T15:11:50Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > Damuri, > > Agreed - those are establishments of religion. > > I was referring to the words of the God. > > Crane Your god says a lot of things, some of which are contradictory-which words are followed and which are shunted aside? Man’s choice. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2017, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-to-bear-arms/780056/245 "2017-03-13T15:28:13Z")
Not preaching - just the facts. Jesus does not recognize a right of self defense. As you point out, individuals and establishments of religion, may editorialize. Crane ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2017, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-to-bear-arms/780056/246 "2017-03-13T15:29:31Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > Not preaching - just the facts. > > Jesus does not recognize a right of self defense. > > As you point out, individuals and establishments of religion, may editorialize. > > Crane Your interpretation is just as valid as anyone else’s. ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2017, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-to-bear-arms/780056/247 "2017-03-13T16:01:55Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > Jesus does not recognize a right of self defense. Sez who? ---
**Author:** ![sear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sear)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2017, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-to-bear-arms/780056/248 "2017-03-13T16:13:47Z")
> [@](#): > > “Jesus does not recognize a right of self defense.” C > > “Sez who?” CT #247 J.C.? Was it J.C. that cited “an eye for an eye” as the BAD example, and then cited “turn the other cheek” as the proper standard? ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2017, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-to-bear-arms/780056/249 "2017-03-13T16:15:16Z")
CT#247, Sez Jesus. Perhaps you can give a biblical reference where Jesus supports self defense. If so, that would be one basis for belief in pre-existing rights. Crane ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2017, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-to-bear-arms/780056/250 "2017-03-13T16:31:34Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > CT#247, > > Sez Jesus. > > Perhaps you can give a biblical reference where Jesus supports self defense. > > If so, that would be one basis for belief in pre-existing rights. > > Crane Luke 22:35-38 > [@Jesus](#): > > And he said to them, i“When I sent you out with no moneybag or knapsack or sandals, did you lack anything?” They said, “Nothing.” He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one. For I tell you that this Scripture must be fulfilled in me: k‘And he was numbered with the transgressors.’ For what is written about me has its fulfillment.” And they said, “Look, Lord, here are two swords.” And he said to them, “It is enough.” ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2017, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-to-bear-arms/780056/251 "2017-03-13T21:31:47Z")
Interesting quote - Swords were required so that they would be among the transgressors. Definitely against self defense. Crane ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2017, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-to-bear-arms/780056/252 "2017-03-13T21:36:47Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > Interesting quote - Swords were required so that they would be among the transgressors. > > Definitely against self defense. > > Crane That’s your interpretation. I’m not saying it’s wrong…but it isn’t the only interpretation of those verses, either. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2017, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-to-bear-arms/780056/253 "2017-03-13T21:43:21Z")
I’m sure that’s true, but the wording is very clear. They are directed to buy swords for the sole purpose of fulfilling a prophecy, not to use them. They get two swords and Jesus says ‘it’s enough’ - been there done that. Crane ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2017, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-to-bear-arms/780056/254 "2017-03-13T21:45:47Z")
I’m sticking with what I said previously. If it was that clear-cut(so to speak), there wouldn’t be other interpretations. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-to-bear-arms/780056.md?page=12)