# The Right Wing Paranoids Are Right Again **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 13, 2016, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-wing-paranoids-are-right-again/754667 "2016-05-13T12:49:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-wing-paranoids-are-right-again/754667/501 "2016-06-06T23:51:48Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Where, in that cartoon, was there any reference to “equal respect”? > What male was being chastised for not accepting a demeaning remark? The cartoon attacked men for talking in ways that women aren’t attacked for doing. They were attacked for daring to speak up for themselves against sexist attacks. It upheld a sexist double-standard, pure and simple. Men and women should be held to the same standard. To declare than men are all privileged and therefore can be held to a different standard is sexism and it’s wrong. Privilege should be replaced with equality, not with a new privilege. The thing where he’s overeager to jump in at the slightest hint of sexist attack (panel five) was fair game though. But the overall cartoon’s tone was “men should just shut up and let women attack them because it’s only fair since women are owed that.” ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-wing-paranoids-are-right-again/754667/502 "2016-06-06T23:53:42Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > And you’re seriously kidding yourself if you think that you’ve come up with any “Devil’s advocate” position on trans rights that someone like **Una** has never heard before. That’s possible, though it’s quite possible she hasn’t ever had a friendly critic like me challenge her. Only she can say. I’ve certainly come up with quite a few that you’ve never heard, though, haven’t I? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-wing-paranoids-are-right-again/754667/503 "2016-06-06T23:56:55Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > That’s possible, though it’s quite possible she hasn’t ever had a friendly critic like me challenge her. Only she can say. > > I’ve certainly come up with quite a few that you’ve never heard, though, haven’t I? Perhaps a couple… But that doesn’t mean they were any good. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-wing-paranoids-are-right-again/754667/504 "2016-06-07T00:02:00Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Perhaps a couple… But that doesn’t mean they were any good. 🙂 I’ll settle for that. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-wing-paranoids-are-right-again/754667/505 "2016-06-07T00:36:23Z")
New arguments, whether or not they’re any good! I’m your (cis)man! It introduces sperm cells into women’s restrooms! The danger of an unintended pregnancy rises by thousands and thousands of per cent! (You know, from one in a trillion-trillion-trillion to merely one in a million-trillion-trillion.) The risk is almost palpable! ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-wing-paranoids-are-right-again/754667/506 "2016-06-07T00:43:23Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > New arguments, whether or not they’re any good! I’m your (cis)man! > > It introduces sperm cells into women’s restrooms! The danger of an unintended pregnancy rises by thousands and thousands of per cent! > > (You know, from one in a trillion-trillion-trillion to merely one in a million-trillion-trillion.) > > The risk is almost palpable! Those are not my arguments. You can have them if you want. They suck though. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-wing-paranoids-are-right-again/754667/507 "2016-06-07T01:36:13Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > This uproar over TG persons and bathrooms is just nonsense, I’m surprised DA and others don’t see that. It’s not like any of us flashing each other in the bathrooms, anyways. At Dodger stadium the urinals are long troughs and guys stand next to each other to pee all the time, and I promise we’re not staring at each other’s junk. I think we got past that when we discussed the series of events. I think we are now talking about transgender issues more generally. I am pretty sure that the transgender male is even less likely to be interested in my flacid urinating penis than a gay man. Something approaching 100% of gay men are attracted to men, I think the percentage of transgender men who are attracted to men is probably something less than half, maybe a lot less (just guessing). ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-wing-paranoids-are-right-again/754667/508 "2016-06-07T01:49:44Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Those are not my arguments. You can have them if you want. They suck though. You’re not paying attention. It was permitted to suck, and nobody ever said it was your argument. Seriously, dude, do you have problems with reading comprehension? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-wing-paranoids-are-right-again/754667/509 "2016-06-07T02:08:02Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Well, as I said I will answer or try to answer almost any question if I think the person is seriously asking and not concern trolling. Well, I appreciate that. I don’t know if I could hold my shit together as well as you do but I guess your job makes it necessary. So on to the questions that are going to get me crucified: As you might have guessed my concerns are mostly about pre-pubescent transgender kids. I am also concerned about the use of hormone blockers to extend this period of pre-pubescence rather than let nature take its course. First the easy one (because it deals with older kids), we know that hormone blockers are perfectly safe (at least physically) and have been used in young children for many years to delay puberty in kids who enter puberty when they are too young. Is the problem with puberty that it creates biological changes that are hard to reverse later in life if the kid does turn out to be transgender or is the problem with OTHER kids who fuck with them? Does puberty ever “straighten” a kid out? Do they ever grow tits and realize, “shit, I’m a girl, I always have been” If a kid is sitting on the fence, then couldn’t puberty knock them to the biologically consistent side? The tougher one for me is transgender pre-pubescents. How malleable is gender identity at this age? Can you provide “nurture” to push towards biologically consistent gender? I realize that some will see this as anti-transgender bigotry and accuse me of trying to pray the gay away, but considering that transgender people seem to consider being transgender a bit of a curse, why can’t we try to de-stigmatize it while also trying to push kids towards their biological gender? Or is that what we already do? I don’t know if I can ever become comfortable with transgenderism in really young kids unless it is CLEARLY in the best interests of the child and I am not so sure that is true, at least not yet. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-wing-paranoids-are-right-again/754667/510 "2016-06-07T02:08:41Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > The cartoon was a mean and stupid attack. It mocks men who dare to insist that they be treated with EQUAL respect - the same respect they are expected to give to women - instead of the “privilege” excuse some people use to treat people like crap just because they are members of a certain group. The fact that you said that a stereotype is “accurate” says it all. The cartoonist practically cuts up the intended message of the 'toon into little bitty bites, chews them into a paste and force feeds the reader like a momma bird. And yet that message eluded you. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-wing-paranoids-are-right-again/754667/511 "2016-06-07T10:37:43Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > The cartoonist practically cuts up the intended message of the 'toon into little bitty bites, chews them into a paste and force feeds the reader like a momma bird. And yet that message eluded you. He’s missing it because he hasn’t yet realized it’s mocking _him_ - or maybe he has and he’s trying to deflect. It’s not mocking all men, it’s not mocking “men who want equal respect” or “men who are unfairly treated”; it’s mocking those men who think that any slight to their feelings is a more grievous offense than any real and material discrimination or harassment done to others, and thus overreact to any such perceived slight. If he really got the same amount of respect women generally get from men, he would never stop crying. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-wing-paranoids-are-right-again/754667/512 "2016-06-07T11:23:52Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > You’re not paying attention. It was permitted to suck, and nobody ever said it was your argument. > > Seriously, dude, do you have problems with reading comprehension? Maybe you have a problem with writing. Seriously, dude, if you think I made a mistake, just politely explain. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-wing-paranoids-are-right-again/754667/513 "2016-06-07T11:28:44Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > He’s missing it because he hasn’t yet realized it’s mocking _him_ So the cartoon was made just for me? > [@](#): > > It’s not mocking all men, I didn’t say it was. > [@](#): > > it’s not mocking “men who want equal respect” or “men who are unfairly treated”; Yes it is. > [@](#): > > it’s mocking those men who think that any slight to their feelings is a more grievous offense than any real and material discrimination or harassment done to others, and thus overreact to any such perceived slight. Bullshit. Utter bullshit. You prove my point here. The idea that women have a right to attack men in their quest to stop attacks on women is wrong. Even if it’s a lesser attack. No, you can’t go around saying “men are pigs” just because you are paid less than men or whatever. It doesn’t work that way. You can’t justify small sexism against men because you’ve suffered bigger sexism against women. It’s not only wrong, and hypocritical, it’s going to backfire. > [@](#): > > f he really got the same amount of respect women generally get from men, he would never stop crying. This isn’t about “generally.” Every man is a specific human being, just like every woman. He is not guilty of the crimes of other men and shouldn’t be punished for them. To say so is sexism, and it’s wrong. You agree that sexism is wrong, don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-wing-paranoids-are-right-again/754667/514 "2016-06-07T11:30:54Z")
Damn, that is actually beautiful Lance. You couldn’t be fulfilling the stereotype being mocked in that cartoon any better if you deliberately tried. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-wing-paranoids-are-right-again/754667/515 "2016-06-07T11:31:19Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > The cartoonist practically cuts up the intended message of the 'toon into little bitty bites, chews them into a paste and force feeds the reader like a momma bird. And yet that message eluded you. No, I got the message. It’s a bullshit message. See how that works? You’re so smug and assured in your opinions that you’re convinced that anyone who disagrees must not get it, rather than simply disagreeing. Bunch of smug, self-assured people here who can’t handle their widdle opinions being questioned in the slightest, even by someone who agrees with their greater goal. That’s no how it works in the real world. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-wing-paranoids-are-right-again/754667/516 "2016-06-07T11:35:04Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Damn, that is actually beautiful Lance. > > You couldn’t be fulfilling the stereotype being mocked in that cartoon any better if you deliberately tried. Nice circular argument. The funny thing is, there’s sure to be an identical inverse cartoon out there mocking people like you. I’ll have to go find it. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-wing-paranoids-are-right-again/754667/517 "2016-06-07T11:49:27Z")
Great! And if it is clever, I will laugh at it. I am self-aware enough to recognize my own foibles. If it is not clever I will ignore it, as life is too short to take umbrage at every misguided cartoonist out there. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-wing-paranoids-are-right-again/754667/518 "2016-06-07T11:56:35Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Yes it is. Look at what the cartoon is actually mocking. “Not-All-Man” is a character who responds to women complaining about men in aggregate. That’s what he does. He doesn’t try to make things better, he doesn’t fight actual injustice, all he does is complain about the kind of off-hand “I hate it when men…” kind of statement, thus redirecting the topic from “This awful thing is happening” to “It’s not my fault”. That’s the problem here - that men are taking subjects like rape, harassment, and the like, and turning them into a personal reassurance party - “Hey, that stuff’s bad, but at least I don’t do it. #NotAllMen.” Not to put too fine a point on it, but if you think “Not all men” is a reasonable or sensible response to a discussion on rape culture, then **you are part of the problem**. > [@](#): > > Bullshit. Utter bullshit. > > You prove my point here. The idea that women have a right to attack men in their quest to stop attacks on women Was that in the comic? At all? Remember, the character of Not-All-Man is being _mocked_. There’s no evidence to support the idea that what he’s complaining about constitutes an “attack”. In fact, the context implies the opposite! > [@](#): > > This isn’t about “generally.” Every man is a specific human being, just like every woman. He is not guilty of the crimes of other men and shouldn’t be punished for them. To say so is sexism, and it’s wrong. #NotAllMen :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-wing-paranoids-are-right-again/754667/519 "2016-06-07T12:44:18Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > it’s mocking those men who think that any slight to their feelings is a more grievous offense than any real and material discrimination or harassment done to others, and thus overreact to any such perceived slight. > [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > You prove my point here. The idea that women have a right to attack men in their quest to stop attacks on women is wrong. Even if it’s a lesser attack. No, you can’t go around saying “men are pigs” just because you are paid less than men or whatever. It doesn’t work that way. You can’t justify small sexism against men because you’ve suffered bigger sexism against women. It’s not only wrong, and hypocritical, it’s going to backfire. Funnily enough, you prove \*\*my \*\*point beautifully. You are spectacularly misreading the cartoon in order to construe it in a way that paints you as the “real victim” here. Nobody in the cartoon or in this thread said “men are pigs” and yet here you are, bewailing the terrible insults being inflicted upon you. I repeat - poor you. Life must be so hard. Furthermore, here you also are demanding that we address the “small sexism” that affects you, while simultaneously telling women (who are frequently the victim of MASSIVE sexism) that things they say that offend you could “backfire” against them - which is a nifty way of preemptively blaming the victims. I’d say what you were committing was sexism in itself but it’s really just the petty, petulant, selfish tantrum of a spoiled child screaming “It’s not fair!”. My advice: learn that it’s not all about you, bub. A disturbingly large percentage of the male population are sexist jerks (or worse). If you’re not one of them, good for you, but stop whining when women point this out. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-wing-paranoids-are-right-again/754667/520 "2016-06-07T12:54:36Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Look at what the cartoon is actually mocking. “Not-All-Man” is a character who responds to women complaining about men in aggregate. That’s what he does. He doesn’t try to make things better, he doesn’t fight actual injustice, all he does is complain about the kind of off-hand “I hate it when men…” kind of statement, thus redirecting the topic from “This awful thing is happening” to “It’s not my fault”. So? > [@](#): > > That’s the problem here - that men are taking subjects like rape, harassment, and the like, and turning them into a personal reassurance party - “Hey, that stuff’s bad, but at least I don’t do it. #NotAllMen.” Not to put too fine a point on it, but if you think “Not all men” is a reasonable or sensible response to a discussion on rape culture, then **you are part of the problem**. Nope. Using language that blames all men for the actions of some is wrong - and it is part of the problem. If you cannot discuss the issue of sexism without using sexism, you are part of the problem. I am not obligated to do anything about what other men do. I do it because I believe in justice, but not because of any guilt on my part. And when someone tries to guilt me, it turns me off and I am inclined not to help them. You don’t have to use sexist language to end sexism. No, I’m not equating small offenses with larger ones. But small offenses matter. Language matters. It is, to use a recently popularized term, micro-aggression. But the thing is, the cartoon makes no sense. It’s not the role of devil’s advocate to simply point out something is wrong. That’s an angel on your shoulder, not a devil. > [@](#): > > Was that in the comic? At all? Remember, the character of Not-All-Man is being _mocked_. There’s no evidence to support the idea that what he’s complaining about constitutes an “attack”. In fact, the context implies the opposite! Yes, it’s an attack. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-wing-paranoids-are-right-again/754667.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-wing-paranoids-are-right-again/754667.md?page=27)