# The Right Wing Paranoids Are Right Again **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 13, 2016, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-wing-paranoids-are-right-again/754667 "2016-05-13T12:49:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-wing-paranoids-are-right-again/754667/561 "2016-06-08T23:53:24Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > “I’m just sick of how men are often portrayed as idiots in commercials.” You don’t even need to finish the sentence. “I’m just sick of how men are often…” is already not a generalization about the entire gender. Also, “I’m just sick of how all men in my office…” or “All men who are in MRA movements…” or “All men in fedoras…” or “All men who are convicted sexual predators…” Honestly, it’s trivially easy to come up with constructions to complete the character’s sentence that are not generalizing about all men. And that’s without hypothesizing about what she might have said before Not-All-Men Man threw himself through the window. ---
**Author:** ![Memnon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Memnon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Memnon)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-wing-paranoids-are-right-again/754667/562 "2016-06-08T23:55:48Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > You don’t even need to finish the sentence. “I’m just sick of how men are often…” is already not a generalization about the entire gender. Uh, yes it is. The qualifier has to come _before_ the word men. Otherwise you’re just saying (or, at the very least, strongly implying) all men often act a certain (and, judging by the expression on that woman’s face, clearly objectionable) way. > [@Miller](#): > > Also, “I’m just sick of how all men in my office…” or “All men who are in MRA movements…” or “All men in fedoras…” or “All men who are convicted sexual predators…” And again, do you _really_ think these are plausible _within the context of the cartoon?_ Would #notallman be leaping into action if this woman were _only_ talking about the the men _in her fucking office?_. Jesus, this kind of handwaving about any other group would probably earn most posters a pit thread of their own. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-wing-paranoids-are-right-again/754667/563 "2016-06-09T00:06:27Z")
Well yes, because NotAllMen is a fucking idiot who believes everything in the world is about him. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-wing-paranoids-are-right-again/754667/564 "2016-06-09T00:13:17Z")
> [@Tithonus](#): > > And again, do you _really_ think these are plausible _within the context of the cartoon?_ Would #notallman be leaping into action if this woman were _only_ talking about the the men _in her fucking office?_. You mean would it be plausible within the context of the cartoon that a character who is being portrayed as a kneejerk idiot who leaps into action without having any information _might not actually have all the information_? Gosh! That sounds wacky! ---
**Author:** ![Memnon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Memnon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Memnon)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-wing-paranoids-are-right-again/754667/565 "2016-06-09T00:27:57Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Well yes, because NotAllMen is a fucking idiot who believes everything in the world is about him. > [@jsgoddess](#): > > You mean would it be plausible within the context of the cartoon that a character who is being portrayed as a kneejerk idiot who leaps into action without having any information _might not actually have all the information_? > > Gosh! That sounds wacky! Oh, for fuck’s sake! All the way through this poxy thread the narrative has been that #notallman is an asshole because he “derails” things, and that his actions toward the sexist women were “stifling” their oh-so-important conversation. _Now_ his problem is just that he jumps the gun? Do you _really_ think that’s the cartoonists point? Yes or no? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-wing-paranoids-are-right-again/754667/566 "2016-06-09T00:29:06Z")
> [@Tithonus](#): > > Uh, yes it is. The qualifier has to come _before_ the word men. Otherwise you’re just saying (or, at the very least, strongly implying) all men often act a certain (and, judging by the expression on that woman’s face, clearly objectionable) way. That’s not really how English works. > [@](#): > > And again, do you _really_ think these are plausible _within the context of the cartoon?_ Would #notallman be leaping into action if this woman were _only_ talking about the the men _in her fucking office?_. Yes, he would, because that’s precisely the behavior the comic is satirizing. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-wing-paranoids-are-right-again/754667/567 "2016-06-09T00:38:05Z")
> [@Tithonus](#): > > Oh, for fuck’s sake! All the way through this poxy thread the narrative has been that #notallman is an asshole because he “derails” things, and that his actions toward the sexist women were “stifling” their oh-so-important conversation. _Now_ his problem is just that he jumps the gun? > > Do you _really_ think that’s the cartoonists point? Yes or no? Your posts are very odd. You say they have to be sexist, because there’s no way they cannot be sexist, because what they were saying was going to be sexist. And the proof of that was that the cartoon was portraying them as sexist. And the proof of that is that they were going to say something sexist. And the proof of that is that they cannot have been intending to say something non-sexist. And the proof of that is that a caped crusader thought they were going to say something sexist and interrupted them. And now you say that it has to be that they are sexist because other people in this thread agree they are sexist when they don’t say they are sexist. Goddamn, I hope there’s a raven under there somewhere, Edgar. ---
**Author:** ![Memnon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Memnon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Memnon)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-wing-paranoids-are-right-again/754667/568 "2016-06-09T00:42:23Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > That’s not really how English works. Yes it is. Qualifiers come _before_ the thing being qualified. Let’s pretend this woman was about to say “I’m sick of how men are often groping, cat-calling scum”. Don’t you think this is a little unfair to the huge number of men who never grope or cat-call? Hint: If your answer is yes, you agree with me. > [@Miller](#): > > Yes, he would, because that’s precisely the behaviour the comic is satirising. No, the behaviour the comic is satirising is the act of challenging generalisations about men _at all_. It’s _“derailing”_ y’see. We’re all supposed to just pretend that generalisations about men aren’t _really_ generalisations and should be treated differently to generalisations about blacks, muslims, jews, women, transpeople, and other groups because reasons. Well fuck that. ---
**Author:** ![Memnon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Memnon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Memnon)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-wing-paranoids-are-right-again/754667/569 "2016-06-09T00:50:22Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Your posts are very odd. > > You say they have to be sexist, because there’s no way they cannot be sexist, because what they were saying was going to be sexist. And the proof of that was that the cartoon was portraying them as sexist. And the proof of that is that they were going to say something sexist. And the proof of that is that they cannot have been intending to say something non-sexist. And the proof of that is that a caped crusader thought they were going to say something sexist and interrupted them. And now you say that it has to be that they are sexist because other people in this thread agree they are sexist when they don’t say they are sexist. > > Goddamn, I hope there’s a raven under there somewhere, Edgar. You’re making it much more complicated than it really is. I’m simply saying this: The most plausible reading of the comic is that men who object to women generalising about them should just butt out, because whatever those women are complaining about _has_ to be more important than the fact that they’re being bigoted, and by interrupting, #notallman is “derailing”. I could find plenty of feminist bloggers who interpret the cartoon _that exact same way_. The only difference between me and them, is that they don’t see anything wrong with it. I just think the cartoon’s message is bullshit. That’s really all there is to it. And on that note, I’m off to bed. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-wing-paranoids-are-right-again/754667/570 "2016-06-09T00:55:25Z")
> [@Tithonus](#): > > You’re making it much more complicated than it really is. I’m simply saying this: > > The most plausible reading of the comic is that men who object to women generalising about them should just butt out, because whatever those women are complaining about _has_ to be more important than the fact that they’re being bigoted, and by interrupting, #notallman is “derailing”. I could find plenty of feminist bloggers who interpret the cartoon _that exact same way_. The only difference between me and them, is that they don’t see anything wrong with it. > > I just think the cartoon’s message is bullshit. That’s really all there is to it. And on that note, I’m off to bed. And I think it’s more likely a commentary that the caped crusader didn’t even wait to hear what she was going to say, because it is more important to speak to women than to listen to them. And hey! If it turns out that you spoke so soon that you don’t know what they were going to say, you can just go on a message board and make it up. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-wing-paranoids-are-right-again/754667/571 "2016-06-09T01:18:14Z")
> [@Tithonus](#): > > Yes it is. Qualifiers come _before_ the thing being qualified. Let’s pretend this woman was about to say “I’m sick of how men are often groping, cat-calling scum”. Don’t you think this is a little unfair to the huge number of men who never grope or cat-call? Hint: If your answer is yes, you agree with me. “Apples are often red.” Is it your contention that this statement is untrue, because of the existence of green apples? > [@](#): > > No, the behaviour the comic is satirising is the act of challenging generalisations about men _at all_. It’s _“derailing”_ y’see. We’re all supposed to just pretend that generalisations about men aren’t _really_ generalisations and should be treated differently to generalisations about blacks, muslims, jews, women, transpeople, and other groups because reasons. I believe that’s your baggage, not the cartoonists. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-wing-paranoids-are-right-again/754667/572 "2016-06-09T04:59:51Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Kids have been prescribed HGH and undergo many medical treatments which “interfere” with normal biological functions. One can say that prescribing HGH for stunted growth is correcting a serious physical disorder, and I’d argue so is transition. It comes down to whether you believe transition is medically necessary for the overall well-being and quality of life of the patient - or if you believe it is not. Yes but these are usually to address physical disorders that are being corrected to revert them to the norm. Here we are using puberty blockers to deviate from the norm. I agree that once you get past all that, the ultimate question is whether that particular patient would be better off with transition. In THAT way, its similar to giving HGH treatments to HGH deficient kids during puberty. > [@](#): > > I believe puberty blockers have been around for about 50+ years, but used for transition assistance since the 1990’s. So about 20 years. I don’t think most people have heard of it used in that context (or in any other context for that matter). The general public is very ignorant about these things. > [@](#): > > Kids bodies are pretty flexible. There is very little evidence that delaying puberty for 1-3 years causes permanent damage or stunting. To put things into perspective, sometimes kids who have gone through full male puberty and then start hormones at 18 can still develop incredibly well into a female body, with the possible exception of hip width. > > There is very little to no information on kids with puberty blocked for extended periods of time, because no one (barring crazy exceptions) does that. Does this argue for letting males go through puberty? Is it much more difficult with girls after puberty? You mentioned earlier that girls more commonly realize that they are transgendered after puberty than boys (or transgender boys realizing that they are actually girls when they row boobs). Does this mean that boys don’t have similar post pubescent revelations (and transgirls similarly don’t have a high recidivism rate despite puberty)? Is the gap between transgirls and transboys because there is a wide open space for tomboys that lets girls feel comfortable acting male? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-wing-paranoids-are-right-again/754667/573 "2016-06-09T05:14:24Z")
> [@Tithonus](#): > > And again, do you _really_ think these are plausible _within the context of the cartoon?_ Would #notallman be leaping into action if this woman were _only_ talking about the the men \*in her fucking office? Let’s make this as clear as possible. The point of this comic strip is that NotAllMan and his ilk are _idiots_. No, really, _that’s the point_. That’s literally the reason the strip exists: to paint this guy, and people like him, as obnoxious and stupid. So with that in mind, what do you reckon the odds are that NotAllMan is _accurate_ about “reverse sexism” here? (Much of your commentary I found largely reasonable, but this is just silly.) ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-wing-paranoids-are-right-again/754667/574 "2016-06-09T09:49:58Z")
NotAllMan is satirizing those men who feel that shutting the complainant down is more important than addressing her concern. It is not aimed at the men who say “Not all men do that, and we will find those that do and tell them to stop it because it makes the rest of us look bad.” ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-wing-paranoids-are-right-again/754667/575 "2016-06-09T09:59:24Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > NotAllMan is satirizing those men who feel that shutting the complainant down is more important than addressing her concern. > > It is not aimed at the men who say “Not all men do that, and we will find those that do and tell them to stop it because it makes the rest of us look bad.” Exactly so. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-wing-paranoids-are-right-again/754667/576 "2016-06-09T11:29:24Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Does this argue for letting males go through puberty? No, because the distinction I’m making here is physical. A transgender child who experiences the “wrong” puberty (as I talked about earlier) risks suffering intense psychological trauma without blockers. > [@](#): > > You mentioned earlier that girls more commonly realize that they are transgendered after puberty than boys (or transgender boys realizing that they are actually girls when they row boobs). While transgender girls have a penis and have had it all their life, prominent breasts (typically) come from puberty, and are an externally visible sign to the world that “this is a girl.” Transgender girls do suffer from serious dyspmorphia from facial and body hair growth (thankfully, due to my intersex condition, I never had to worry about that, although covering up my breasts was very difficult and a source of constant stress, as they made me open to mockery, harassment, and to be blunt what could best be described as physical torture.) > [@](#): > > Does this mean that boys don’t have similar post pubescent revelations (and transgirls similarly don’t have a high recidivism rate despite puberty)? Is the gap between transgirls and transboys because there is a wide open space for tomboys that lets girls feel comfortable acting male? This is easy to answer: I don’t know, and I’d have to hit my books, so to speak, to try to answer that question. I’m not a transkid specialist and don’t know all the facts handy here on the road. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-wing-paranoids-are-right-again/754667/577 "2016-06-09T16:03:11Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > No, because the distinction I’m making here is physical. A transgender child who experiences the “wrong” puberty (as I talked about earlier) risks suffering intense psychological trauma without blockers. > While transgender girls have a penis and have had it all their life, prominent breasts (typically) come from puberty, and are an externally visible sign to the world that “this is a girl.” Transgender girls do suffer from serious dyspmorphia from facial and body hair growth (thankfully, due to my intersex condition, I never had to worry about that, although covering up my breasts was very difficult and a source of constant stress, as they made me open to mockery, harassment, and to be blunt what could best be described as physical torture.) > This is easy to answer: I don’t know, and I’d have to hit my books, so to speak, to try to answer that question. I’m not a transkid specialist and don’t know all the facts handy here on the road. Thanks for the info and perspective. I don’t need to be an expert but i don’t want to talk too much out of my ass when I stake out a position on this issue at parties etc. There is always some guy (and its usually a guy) that has really strong feelings about this and in at least one case I think it was displaced homophobia. I think there are still a LOT of people out there that think of transsexualism as an extreme form of homosexuality. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-right-wing-paranoids-are-right-again/754667.md?page=28)