# The Rise of “Karens”? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 20, 2023, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320 "2023-07-20T18:54:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/1 "2023-07-20T18:54:29Z")
Karen became, of course, the trendy word for excessively demanding, condescending, customers complaining constantly and asking to speak with management. I have heard Keith suggested as a male equivalent. 1. A comedy show I heard yesterday blamed “the rise of Karen’s” on the popularity of “The Elf on the Shelf” and need for control, saying these things exploded at the same time. I’m not sure I see the connection. Am I missing something? 2. I have heard some psychologists claim a link between anality (including need for control) and sadism. Is there anything to this in your opinion? 3. Have you ever had to deal with Keith’s or Karen’s? Any good stories? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/2 "2023-07-20T18:58:41Z")
I prefer “Kevin” to Keith, as the latter was my son’s name and couldn’t have been further from the type of person described. I’ve never known a Kevin that I could stand to be around. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/3 "2023-07-20T19:04:46Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Keith […] my son’s name and couldn’t have been further from the type of person described I could say the same about any number of Keiths and Karens I know who don’t deserve to be tarred with that brush. I am also sorry to see you using the past tense there. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/4 "2023-07-20T19:17:13Z")
What’s really weird is that two of the women who complain to me most, as a city council person, are white women in their 60s named Karen. Luckilly for society at large, I think they mostly complain to me and don’t go around harshing everyone else’s buzz. They’re not out there policing (but one is out there grumbling on Facebook.) ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/5 "2023-07-20T19:24:08Z")
In sympathy I will henceforth use the name Kevin instead of Keith when referring to a certain type of cantankerous man. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/6 "2023-07-20T19:34:36Z")
Please also don’t use the possessive Karen’s when you seem to mean Karens. ---
**Author:** ![themapleleaf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/themapleleaf/32/14349_2.png) [@themapleleaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/themapleleaf)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/7 "2023-07-20T19:39:36Z")
I really find it stupid that some would ruin someone’s name by using it to describe a negative type of person. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/8 "2023-07-20T19:42:12Z")
I thought it arose because a woman with that first name was calling the police and complaining about Blacks who weren’t even doing anything wrong. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/9 "2023-07-20T19:55:07Z")
> [@themapleleaf](#): > > I really find it stupid that some would ruin someone’s name by using it to describe a negative type of person. All the Dicks, worldwide, let out a huge cheer! ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/10 "2023-07-20T20:06:22Z")
Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/11 "2023-07-20T20:14:35Z")
I blame the rise of the Karens on Whoopi (whose name on the street is Caryn Johnson). ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/12 "2023-07-20T20:19:04Z")
I always thought the already widely agreed male equivalent to the “Karen” personality was a “Chad”. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/13 "2023-07-20T20:21:51Z")
Chad has only ever just been hanging around. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/14 "2023-07-20T20:23:04Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Please also don’t use the possessive Karen’s when you seem to mean Karens. > [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > Sorry. Fixed. ---
**Author:** ![JohnGalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johngalt/32/184_2.png) [@JohnGalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnGalt)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/15 "2023-07-20T20:31:00Z")
Why? Are you going to need to speak with a manager? (I see that you did! 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/16 "2023-07-20T20:32:15Z")
Hee hee. ---
**Author:** ![xizor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xizor/32/102_2.png) [@xizor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xizor)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/17 "2023-07-20T20:46:13Z")
I think the rise of Karenism parallels the rise in social media. When these poor put upon people finally had a public soapbox to gain sympathy from like minded complainers. My personal anecdote is the karen on our subdivision’s facebook group who complains about all her neighbors doing normal things that annoy her. Always hoping people will rally around her and say “Yeah! That guy should not be mowing his yard at 8AM on a Saturday!” or “How horrid that dog mom is for letting her dog bark so late in the evening!” ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/18 "2023-07-20T20:54:55Z")
> [@JohnGalt](#): > > Why? Are you going to need to speak with a manager? (I see that you did! 🙂 ) > [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > Hee hee. I guess _I’m_ going to have to speak to the manager. Again. [eyeroll] Sigh. Just _look_ at that title. Like sooo gross!! > The Rise of " Karens’ " I added a space next to the " marks to make it obvious. We have a stray apostrophe. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/19 "2023-07-20T20:56:13Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > We have a stray apostrophe. Ho, shit. Fixed. (Tired old eyes!) I would’ve fixed the “Karen’s” thing anyway. It were driving me crazy (deliberate misuse of correct grammar.) ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/20 "2023-07-20T21:19:09Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > I could say the same about any number of Keiths and Karens I know who don’t deserve to be tarred with that brush. > > I am also sorry to see you using the past tense there. Yeah, I tend to overreact when it comes to him. This is all just meaningless internet memes, anyway. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320.md?page=2)