# The Rise of “Karens”? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 20, 2023, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320 "2023-07-20T18:54:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2025, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/262 "2025-09-09T15:39:57Z")
Well, if the norm is, “it’s okay to shove your way into someone else’s space, and grab the ball as they reach for it”, then the guy is in the right. That’s honestly a horrible norm. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2025, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/263 "2025-09-09T15:40:28Z")
I don’t like it as all of the people I have known who were named Karen were lovely and gentle people - I can’t really bring myself to fully accept the idea of calling awful people ‘Karen’. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2025, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/264 "2025-09-09T15:46:43Z")
I do not attend baseball games, but from what I have seen, read, and heard, when a ball is hit into the stands it’s an expected free-for-all until someone comes up with it, unless you directly catch it with your mitt, your beer, or your bare hand. In this case it appears the ball landed in an empty seat - so who’s space was shoved into? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2025, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/265 "2025-09-09T16:08:52Z")
A scrum is not unusual, in my experience, with all sorts of fans making a break for the ball. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2025, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/266 "2025-09-09T16:24:02Z")
I’m not sure some of you watched the video. This is the closest description that I’ve seen to what is shown. > [@snowthx](#): > > everyone was watching the ball and then it landed on the empty seat in front of the Karen and was bouncing around. When he reached for the ball it stopped and he got it first. He didn’t shove his way anywhere. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/9yQLqhgnqxI/maxresdefault.jpg "👀 Mad Phillies fans Argue over Harrison Bader HR in Miami - Woman demands ball back from kid & dad") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yQLqhgnqxI) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2025, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/267 "2025-09-09T17:02:01Z")
That’s a new angle I haven’t seen. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2025, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/268 "2025-09-09T17:04:34Z")
With another fan between the man and the woman, so you can’t see what happened. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2025, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/269 "2025-09-09T17:47:37Z")
The Savannah Bananas made fun of the situation by doing a skit in the seats where the Grinch stole a ball from a guy who gave a ball to his “son”. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/nrODn8m68BY/maxresdefault.jpg "Phillies Karen = The Grinch?! Hilarious Spoof!") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrODn8m68BY) ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2025, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/270 "2025-09-09T17:51:21Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > With another fan between the man and the woman, so you can’t see what happened. There’s the TV angle. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/fiCnrPleU3k/maxresdefault.jpg "Woman BERATES father and son over home run ball") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiCnrPleU3k) ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2025, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/271 "2025-09-09T17:55:16Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > There’s the TV angle. You still can’t see everything perfectly (it’s doubtful that a camera just happened to be positioned in that spot in that moment for the perfect angle) but it certainly looks like they both reached for the ball and he got it first. There wasn’t enough time for a ball to get wrestled away or anything. The ball landed in the seat in front of the lady, and there is no rule that you’re entitled to a ball if it lands closest to you. It doesn’t look like anything untoward happened until she got into his face and demanded the ball. There’s a reason why she’s getting pretty much universal condemnation over the incident, and I don’t _think_ it’s misogyny. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2025, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/272 "2025-09-09T18:19:54Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > they both reached for the ball 🎶 “He had strength, and she had gall…” 🎶 ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2025, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/273 "2025-09-09T18:55:31Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > There’s a reason why she’s getting pretty much universal condemnation over the incident, and I don’t _think_ it’s misogyny. No, but she’s being called “the Karen” because of misogyny, IMHO. I mostly see that word used to put down women who try to stand up for themselves, sometimes wrongly, but sometimes rightly, too. I think it carries connotations of “she should know her place”. A man might have been called a bully, or something else indicating he was overly aggressive. But it’s a really weird convention that everyone runs and fights over who gets the ball. I certainly didn’t know that was the standard rule. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2025, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/274 "2025-09-09T19:02:24Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > But it’s a really weird convention that everyone runs and fights over who gets the ball. I certainly didn’t know that was the standard rule. I mean, what do you suggest? If something free is being thrown out into a crowd, beit a tee-shirt, a guitar pick, a drum stick, a baseball, a wad of cash, everybody does their best to grab it. I dunno, it strikes me as normal human behavior. ETA: Also depends on what you mean by “fight.” I mean a scramble is pretty normal. Fisticuffs would not be. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2025, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/275 "2025-09-09T19:03:31Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > here’s another example that the insult “karen” is now in widespread use in a way that has nothing to do with racial implications. But it still remains sexist. > [@needscoffee](#): > > It doesn’t say why the man gave her the ball. It’s possible he’d snatched it from her or her kid in the first place, and was giving it back after getting called out on it. Right. And he gave it to his son, not some strangers kid. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > No, but she’s being called “the Karen” because of misogyny, IMHO Yep. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2025, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/276 "2025-09-09T19:05:14Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > But it’s a really weird convention that everyone runs and fights over who gets the ball. No, people don’t fight over it, He didn’t fight over the ball. He didn’t shove his way into a group to get the ball. The guy ran over and picked it up. That woman was pissed because it had landed in the seat in front of her. She may have been bending down to get it, but she didn’t have it, and nobody fought her to obtain it. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2025, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/277 "2025-09-09T19:16:06Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > He didn’t fight over the ball. He didn’t shove his way into a group to get the ball. Correct, he snatched it up in a split second and headed back. You can tell that much at least from the video. He was just faster than her. She clearly thought she was entitled to it because it was closer to her. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > No, but she’s being called “the Karen” because of misogyny, IMHO. I mostly see that word used to put down women who try to stand up for themselves, sometimes wrongly, but sometimes rightly, too. I think it carries connotations of “she should know her place”. A man might have been called a bully, or something else indicating he was overly aggressive. The **label** being applied to her has misogyny baked in, I do think that’s evident. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2025, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/278 "2025-09-09T23:15:02Z")
I’m curious, if the woman was a kid, would the man have been in the clear still? These rules for snatching up balls seem to favor bigger people over smaller ones. So, I would expect men to succeed more often vs. women and children. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2025, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/279 "2025-09-09T23:34:50Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > These rules for snatching up balls seem to favor bigger people over smaller ones. There are no _rules_, other than you are allowed to keep a baseball if it’s hit in the stands. Did you watch the video? There was no scrum, no fight, and no display of rules. It was a baseball hit into the stands, and one person picked it up, while others tried to grab it. It looks like he took it off a seat, but it could have been on the ground. That doesn’t favor a bigger person. If anything, it favors the person who is closer to the ground. > [@Atamasama](#): > > The **label** being applied to her has misogyny baked in, Agreed. But she’s not being singled out because she’s a woman, but because she was confrontational. And, in calling her out, people are stereotyping based on her gender (and perhaps her short hair). But if she had been a younger male she might have been derided as a _bro_, or a _Chad_. If it had been an old man, maybe _geezer_ or _grandpa_. Karen is an insult, to be sure. But it’s just a simple means of being rude, in this instance. I don’t think people would excuse the aggressiveness if she had been a different person. (For what it’s worth, I think the man was in fact being rude by running over to her section. But it was a minor offense, and I don’t think it justified her chasing him down to yell at him) ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2025, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/280 "2025-09-09T23:42:11Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > Did you watch the video? There was no scrum, no fight, and no display of rules. I don’t like watching these sorts of things, but I watched the two videos linked here, and it looked pretty straightforward that he got to the ball first. She got _up_ in his shit, too. I don’t think you should get that close to a complete stranger and scream at them. It’s a step beyond rude, not quite assault but certainly threatening. I’m glad the kid got spoiled anyway. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2025, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/281 "2025-09-10T00:32:21Z")
Rudeness amongst sports fans. Heaven forfend. What is the world coming to? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320.md?page=15)