# The Rise of “Karens”?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Created:** [July 20, 2023, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320 "2023-07-20T18:54:28Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2023, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/21 "2023-07-20T21:20:58Z")
I too don’t approve of the name “Keith” for the male version of “Karen.” Most of the “Keiths” I’ve known have been pretty cool blokes. “Kevin” is a little better, but in my experience, Kevins are usually jerks, rather than Karen-ish. I think a more pretentious name, like Korbyn, would make a better male Karen name. Actually, most Karens I know are pretty nice…but I’ll stick with it for this discussion.
I don’t often deal firsthand with Karens (or Kevins, or Korbyns) because I don’t engage with them, but I see a lot of videos of them and their antics on social media.
Karens often pick _on_ Blacks (or other minorities) for some perceived (wrongly) infraction, or white-knight _on behalf of_ Blacks (or other minorities) for some perceived (wrongly) infraction. They usually believe they have the weight of consensus of a large group of like-minded people behind them (erroneously). And, when they white-knight on behalf of a minority, I believe the minority they speak for would rather they didn’t. I don’t believe Karens care about anyone but themselves, and the do-gooder image they believe they project (falsely).
Karens et al appear to get a dopamine rush from white-knighting, unless and until someone fights back with logic, then they double down and often crumble to pieces, calling for help from their spouse, the police, or anyone else willing to help (I don’t believe they want to help, but get bullied into it most of the time).
I’ve never experienced an intelligent Karen (or Kevin, or Korbyn). I suspect this is because they spent their lives doing shallow, counter-productive things rather than educating themselves properly.
I’ve never met a likable Karen (or Kevin, or Korbyn), and I wish they were a different species from Homo sapiens sapiens, because they make me ashamed to be one of their species. In fact, I wish they were of a different family from Hominidae. That way, when we get visited by extraterrestrials (we will, soon hopefully), I can say, _“most of us Earthlings are pretty cool”_, then point to the family “Karen” on an evolution-tree chart and say, _“but, stay away from these assholes.”_
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### Author:  [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2023, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/22 "2023-07-20T21:22:02Z")
> [@xizor](#):
>
> My personal anecdote is the karen on our subdivision’s facebook group who complains about all her neighbors doing normal things that annoy her. Always hoping people will rally around her and say “Yeah! That guy should not be mowing his yard at 8AM on a Saturday!” or “How horrid that dog mom is for letting her dog bark so late in the evening!”
Release the Karen!
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2023, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/23 "2023-07-20T21:23:57Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#):
>
> Karen became, of course, the trendy word for excessively demanding, condescending, customers complaining constantly and asking to speak with management
That word, used in that context, is sexist, bigoted and hurtful. It should not be used in that context on the SDMB.
> [@themapleleaf](#):
>
> I really find it stupid that some would ruin someone’s name by using it to describe a negative type of person.
Exactly.
> [@Aspenglow](#):
>
> I would’ve fixed the “Karen’s” thing anyway.
Why didnt you fix it by removing it?
> [@Tibby](#):
>
> I too don’t approve of the name “Keith” for the male version of “Karen.” Most of the “Keiths” I’ve known have been pretty cool blokes.
Every Karen I have known is a nice woman.
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### Author:  [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2023, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/24 "2023-07-20T21:29:10Z")
That was just Becky
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### Author:  [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2023, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/25 "2023-07-20T21:29:54Z")
Do you cry over “Debbie Downer”? How do you feel about calling a character a “Mary Sue”? Have you ever called someone a “Romeo”?
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### Author:  [@Folly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folly)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2023, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/26 "2023-07-20T21:32:00Z")
> [@eschereal](#):
>
> Chad has only ever just been hanging around
Sometimes they are pregnant…
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2023, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/27 "2023-07-20T21:33:55Z")
> [@needscoffee](#):
>
> Do you cry over “Debbie Downer”?
That hasnt been used for decades as far as I remember, and no, I didnt use it. But karens are portrayed as being really nasty and often racist people.
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### Author:  [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2023, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/28 "2023-07-20T21:43:14Z")
> [@themapleleaf](#):
>
> I really find it stupid that some would ruin someone’s name by using it to describe a negative type of person.
It really kind of sucks for women named Karen. It also sucks that women who have valid complaints are sometimes worried about making them for fear of being called a Karen.
> [@Jasmine](#):
>
> I thought it arose because a woman with that first name was calling the police and complaining about Blacks who weren’t even doing anything wrong.
According to a [BBC article](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-53588201), initially those women specifically were referred to a BBQ Becky or Permit Patty, but at some point it just morphed into Karens as a general description. But Karen has morphed into a woman who belittles service workers, makes petty complaints, asks for special treatment, and is anti-vaccination. They’re most often depicted as middle class white women with a specific haircut. I’m not sure how that all happened.
Truthfully these type of people have always been around and such behavior isn’t limited to white middle class women.
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### Author:  [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2023, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/29 "2023-07-20T21:54:05Z")
Did Typhoid Mary stop people from naming their girls Mary?
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### Author:  [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2023, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/30 "2023-07-20T21:59:08Z")
Last night at work I had a customer berate me because the spot where our parking lot security guard’s patrol vehicle was stopped wasn’t a marked parking space.
I’m not sure why he thought it was any of his business or what he expected me to do about it, but he started threatening to launch a social media campaign against our store if we didn’t do something about it.
That’s definitely a Karen.
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### Author:  [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2023, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/31 "2023-07-20T22:03:35Z")
> [@Smapti](#):
>
> That’s definitely a Karen.
And a Dick!
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### Author:  [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats2)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2023, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/32 "2023-07-20T22:10:09Z")
I am of the opinion that sexism has a LOT to do with this meme. Look at the screenshots for Karen videos on YouTube. They are usually described as “Karens get INSTANT KARMA!!!” and show a screeching woman under threat of a gun or a baseball bat or a fist. It’s never a male in the picture being threatened, even if the video features Kevins or Kens or whatever.
Tell me if this isn’t backlash for women who DARE to stand up for themselves. Even if women are in the right for making a complaint, the stereotype continues.
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### Author:  [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2023, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/33 "2023-07-20T22:11:09Z")
What was the name used here many years back, where a poster told of her brother in law(?)'s stupid behavior? Brad, Kevin, something… I can’t search because I can’t remember the name, or any of the stories.
Those were funny stories.
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### Author:  [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2023, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/34 "2023-07-20T22:16:08Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#):
>
> I always thought the already widely agreed male equivalent to the “Karen” personality was a “Chad”.
Nah, “Chad” has an established meaning as someone who’s basically the opposite of a “Karen” - unflappable, self-sufficient, morally correct, “based,” etc.
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### Author:  [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2023, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/35 "2023-07-20T22:30:06Z")
> [@Odesio](#):
>
> But Karen has morphed into a woman who belittles service workers, makes petty complaints, asks for special treatment, and is anti-vaccination.
Don’t forget that the manager approved their behavior last time and they know the owner.
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### Author:  [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2023, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/36 "2023-07-20T22:51:39Z")
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> That word, used in that context, is sexist, bigoted and hurtful. It should not be used in that context on the SDMB.
While you do have a point, and creating these broad classifications are not helpful to a functional society, and you have known women named Karen who were nice, one thing that escapes most of us is the wordplay aspect of that particular name. It is kind of almost a contranym like thing
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### Author:  [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2023, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/37 "2023-07-20T23:09:05Z")
The male version I’d heard was “Darren,” but I haven’t heard it for quite some time.
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### Author:  [@TheCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheCuse)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2023, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/38 "2023-07-20T23:10:57Z")
I had heard it was “Ken.”
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### Author:  [@TheCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheCuse)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2023, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/39 "2023-07-20T23:12:48Z")
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> > [@Dr\_Paprika](#):
> >
> > Karen became, of course, the trendy word for excessively demanding, condescending, customers complaining constantly and asking to speak with management
>
> That word, used in that context, is sexist, bigoted and hurtful. It should not be used in that context on the SDMB.
Well, you aren’t the one to decide that.
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### Author:  [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2023, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rise-of-karens/987320/40 "2023-07-20T23:17:57Z")
I agree, and feel the same way about “Brandon” being used as a pejorative by some RWNJs.
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