# The Rittenhouse trial **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 4, 2021, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rittenhouse-trial/953798 "2021-11-04T14:56:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 59
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2021, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rittenhouse-trial/953798/1163 "2021-11-19T19:30:45Z")
If you got your info about this trial from CNN or MSNBC, I can understand why you are perplexed or enraged over the result. I watched some of their coverage, and it was non-stop disinformation. Shockingly so. This is the narrative they were essentially spewing right until the end: “A white supremicist militia member crosses state lines with an illegal gun to go to a civil rights protest he has no other interest in other than to raise trouble. He goes there, confronts people, then when one of them reacts he raises his gun and shoots him dead. Then when concerned citizens see this they attempt to chase him down and neutralize the threat to others. The kid then turns and shoots two unarmed men and a third who had a gun out but only for the purpose of trying to get Rittenhouse to surrender.” I heard one reporter describe Kyle running away from Rosenbaum as him ‘luring’ Rosembaum between the cars so he could kill him. Joe Scarborough said that Rittenhouse fired over sixty shots. Joy Ried claimed that Rittenhouse crying on the stand was an example ‘white tears’, just like Kavanaugh, and this is a tactic white men get away with. CBS described Rittenhouse as someone who 'Murdered two people" before the trial even started. That’s an unhinged take on what happened, but I found that essential story being told over and over again. It appears to be similar to the story some people here seem to believe. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2021, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rittenhouse-trial/953798/1164 "2021-11-19T19:31:31Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > That people are justified putting themselves into a situation where they can then claim that they are scared for their life as justification for killing other people? Yep, you can stand in front of the bus and shoot the driver ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2021, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rittenhouse-trial/953798/1165 "2021-11-19T19:32:12Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > > > What it undermines is the idea that Rittenhouse was “dangerous, and in need of confronting” just because he was walking around armed, which is the suggestion that has been made in this thread many times. > > No, it undermines the claims that he was confronted solely because he was armed, which is the suggestion that has been made in this thread many times. In an open carry state confronting an armed person on the public streets simply because they are armed, is not acceptable or appropriate behavior. Full stop. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2021, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rittenhouse-trial/953798/1166 "2021-11-19T19:32:21Z")
The case is far from over. The civil lawsuits will be quite lucrative for the survivor and the estates of the two that died. This case could easily cost taxpayers 12 to 15 million in settlements. Four million per family may not be enough. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2021, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rittenhouse-trial/953798/1167 "2021-11-19T19:32:55Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > There’s a number of us, myself included, who felt it was not a simple thing, he could have been got on some charges, but the state did not nail him on all, and may be disappointed in it but can understand the legal aspects involved. And are concerned about what sort of “messages” some people may get though sending messages is not the jury’s job. That’s where I’m at. > [@JRDelirious](#): > > There’s those of us who think KR is a damn fool who was acting imprudently, with great disregard for his own and others’ safety, that the only good course of action for him was to stay the hell home; or at least someone on site should have said “kid, put the gun away and stay in a safe place unless told otherwise”. This is also where I’m at. > [@JRDelirious](#): > > Then there’s who apparently are absolutely certain that they KNOW that KR went there fully intending TODAY FINALLY I KILL and that this is a greenlight for others. I don’t think that Rittenhouse went there specifically to kill. However, I do see this as a greenlight for those who will. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2021, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rittenhouse-trial/953798/1168 "2021-11-19T19:34:07Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Now all that being said, I don’t think you _should_ show up to a riot armed and looking for trouble Well, thank you! The right to carry arms assumes the good sense to know when not to. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2021, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rittenhouse-trial/953798/1169 "2021-11-19T19:36:27Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > they’re already risking getting shot. Getting shot makes on a martyr. Getting convicted by a jury of your peers makes you a loser. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2021, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rittenhouse-trial/953798/1170 "2021-11-19T19:36:28Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The civil lawsuits will be quite lucrative Who will be sued? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2021, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rittenhouse-trial/953798/1171 "2021-11-19T19:36:41Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The case is far from over. The civil lawsuits will be quite lucrative for the survivor and the estates of the two that died. > > This case could easily cost taxpayers 12 to 15 million in settlements. Four million per family may not be enough. How so? What governmental agency will be sued and settle? KR wasn’t working for the government. They can’t sue the court because he was found not guilty. KR may be sued but that’s about it. ---
**Author:** ![KMS94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ad7895/32.png) [@KMS94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KMS94)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2021, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rittenhouse-trial/953798/1172 "2021-11-19T19:37:21Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > That people are justified putting themselves into a situation where they can then claim that they are scared for their life as justification for killing other people? > > I’m sure that people have used that pathetic excuse for hundreds of years, doesn’t mean that we should condone it. Pretty much what the police in America have been doing my whole life. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2021, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rittenhouse-trial/953798/1173 "2021-11-19T19:40:32Z")
The lawsuits have already begun. The floodgates are open since the criminal case ended. The Rittenhouse family will probably sue the media. Similar to the case of the teen that was confronted by protestors during a high school field trip in Washington. He got settlements from several papers. > [@](#): > > The [father of Anthony Huber](https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2021/08/17/kenosha-police-face-lawsuit-over-death-protester-shot-kyle-rittenhouse/8156165002/) has filed a federal civil lawsuit, but not against Rittenhouse. It names the city and county of Kenosha, the sheriff, the acting and former police chiefs, and unnamed officers and deputies. The lawsuit accuses them of racial animus in allowing dozens of armed whites to remain among protesters, leading to conditions that resulted in Huber’s death. The suit remains open. > > Jacob Blake has filed a [federal lawsuit](https://www.jsonline.com/in-depth/news/2021/08/19/jacob-blake-shooting-legal-cases-continue-year-after-kenosha-unrest/8149321002/) against Rusten Shesky, the officer who shot him, claiming his use of deadly force was excessive, violated Blake’s rights against unreasonable seizure, and was done with “malice, willfulness, and reckless indifference” to Blake’s rights. The civil case remains ongoing. > **[What's next now that Kyle Rittenhouse has been found not guilty? Legal...](https://www.yahoo.com/now/whats-next-now-kyle-rittenhouse-193013714.html)** > > While the not-guilty verdict ends the criminal cases against the 18-year-old, the legal fallout from the 2020 shootings will continue. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2021, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rittenhouse-trial/953798/1174 "2021-11-19T19:41:44Z")
And that is not relevant in the slightest to what I actually said. My entire point is that he was not confronted _simply_ because he was armed. If he were, then all the other hundreds of people who were armed would have also been confronted, which they were not. Which indicates that he was not confronted simply because he was armed, but rather, because of his behavior while being armed that people found threatening. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2021, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rittenhouse-trial/953798/1175 "2021-11-19T19:41:46Z")
Couple of technical questions: How much does a defense lawyer get paid for taking on a super-high-profile case like Rittenhouse’s? and Since over $500,000 was raised for Rittenhouse’s defense on GoFundMe (presumably more than the lawyer got paid,) what happens to the excess money? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2021, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rittenhouse-trial/953798/1176 "2021-11-19T19:43:30Z")
Yes, and while we work to reform the police, as uphill and possibly fruitless battle that may be, what we don’t need is for people to start finding ways of mimicking this cowardly and deadly behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2021, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rittenhouse-trial/953798/1177 "2021-11-19T19:44:32Z")
The evidence for your conclusions is weak and your conclusion is thus weak as well. You’re basically postulating “since someone attacked him, but not everyone was attacked, it means he must have done something.” That is not, in fact, what it must mean. But nice try! ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2021, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rittenhouse-trial/953798/1178 "2021-11-19T19:45:10Z")
It’s still evidence even if you view it a different way, or draw different conclusions from it. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2021, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rittenhouse-trial/953798/1179 "2021-11-19T19:46:35Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The lawsuits have already begun. The floodgates are open since the criminal case ended. > > The Rittenhouse family will probably sue the media. > > > [@](#): > > > > The [father of Anthony Huber](https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2021/08/17/kenosha-police-face-lawsuit-over-death-protester-shot-kyle-rittenhouse/8156165002/) has filed a federal civil lawsuit, but not against Rittenhouse. It names the city and county of Kenosha, the sheriff, the acting and former police chiefs, and unnamed officers and deputies. The lawsuit accuses them of racial animus in allowing dozens of armed whites to remain among protesters, leading to conditions that resulted in Huber’s death. The suit remains open. > > > > Jacob Blake has filed a [federal lawsuit](https://www.jsonline.com/in-depth/news/2021/08/19/jacob-blake-shooting-legal-cases-continue-year-after-kenosha-unrest/8149321002/) against Rusten Shesky, the officer who shot him, claiming his use of deadly force was excessive, violated Blake’s rights against unreasonable seizure, and was done with “malice, willfulness, and reckless indifference” to Blake’s rights. The civil case remains ongoing. > > [What's next now that Kyle Rittenhouse has been found not guilty? Legal fallout from the Kenosha shootings will continue.](https://www.yahoo.com/now/whats-next-now-kyle-rittenhouse-193013714.html) The Blake lawsuit is tangential but not directly related to Rittenhouse. The other one if the wording is anything like what you put in your post should be dismissed at the first hearing. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2021, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rittenhouse-trial/953798/1180 "2021-11-19T19:46:52Z")
> [@eschrodinger](#): > > It’s still evidence even if you view it a different way, or draw different conclusions from it. That’s not how I was intending to use the term, I was saying there is no “evidence proving Rittenhouse threatened people”, sorry for the lack of clarity. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2021, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rittenhouse-trial/953798/1181 "2021-11-19T19:49:47Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Yes I do. Cite required. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2021, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rittenhouse-trial/953798/1182 "2021-11-19T19:51:00Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > You’re basically postulating “since someone attacked him, but not everyone was attacked, it means he must have done something.” That is not, in fact, what it must mean. But nice try! And you are asserting, “since someone confronted him, it must have been _simply_ because he was carrying a gun.” That is also not, in fact, what it must mean, but you are the one insisting that it does. The evidence for your proposition is not just weak, but contraindicated by the actual facts of the evening. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rittenhouse-trial/953798.md?page=58) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rittenhouse-trial/953798.md?page=60)