# The Rittenhouse trial **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 4, 2021, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rittenhouse-trial/953798 "2021-11-04T14:56:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 76
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rittenhouse-trial/953798/1503 "2021-11-23T01:17:01Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > > [@Loach](#): > > > > It is theoretically possible to get a concealed carry permit but unless you are a cop it’s basically impossible to get one. > > I’m curious. > Why does a cop need a CCW permit? Doesn’t your states laws exempt peace officers from concealed carry prohibitions? And then there is HR218 which does not require any form of licensing or permit, just your ID card. A cop doesn’t. I just wanted to state in simple terms that other than police it’s basically impossible to carry in my state. The ins and out and LEOSA are irrelevant to this thread. > [@Gyrate](#): > > I’ve asked previously about the timing of events because the timeline I’d heard involved a shot (not fired by Rittenhouse) going off _before_ Rosenbaum charged Rittenhouse, and that Rosenbaum may have erroneously assumed Rittenhouse was an active shooter and wanted to stop him. If that’s so (and note that I have caveated this), it again places this firmly into “clusterfuck” territory rather than “crazed violent thug attacks innocent boy for no reason whatsoever”. There was a man named Ziminski admitted to firing a warning shot seconds before Rittenhouse fired. He was behind Rosenbaum so there was no mistaking that the shot came from in front. Rosenbaum was already advancing on KR at the time. Ziminski could not be compelled to testify because he has pending charges from the night. ---
**Author:** ![aurora\_maire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aurora_maire/32/328_2.png) [@aurora\_maire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurora_maire)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rittenhouse-trial/953798/1504 "2021-11-23T01:22:10Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > I don’t believe there is ANY GOOD to come of anyone proclaiming shit like this. It’s almost like I wonder if that photo is part of some kind of false-flag disinformation campaign. It very well could be. The propaganda coming from Russia, China, etc. probably outweighs domestic “memes” in these divisive cases. It’s good for them. But that’s not for this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rittenhouse-trial/953798/1505 "2021-11-23T01:24:37Z")
@Gyrate this article sums up the testimony of KR. Just before KR shot it talks about Ziminski. His name was brought up in earlier testimony. That he fired first was not disputed by either side. > **[Kyle Rittenhouse testifies he knew Joseph Rosenbaum was unarmed but acted in...](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/11/10/us/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-wednesday/index.html)** > > Kyle Rittenhouse testified Wednesday that he was scared for his life and acted in self-defense when he fatally shot Joseph Rosenbaum last year in Kenosha, Wisconsin, in what is likely to be the pivotal testimony of his homicide trial. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rittenhouse-trial/953798/1506 "2021-11-23T01:26:34Z")
Here you go: [CNN ridiculed for ‘Fiery But Mostly Peaceful’ caption with video of burning building in Kenosha | TheHill](https://thehill.com/homenews/media/513902-cnn-ridiculed-for-fiery-but-mostly-peaceful-caption-with-video-of-burning) Maybe the building was struck by lightning or suffered an electrical fire right during the peaceful protest, right? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rittenhouse-trial/953798/1507 "2021-11-23T02:17:14Z")
Not when they are told not to by their leftist bosses. The riots, arson, and looting serves a political interest. That’s why they were allowed to continue for over 3 months in some cities. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rittenhouse-trial/953798/1508 "2021-11-23T02:24:44Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I’ve asked previously about the timing of events because the timeline I’d heard involved a shot (not fired by Rittenhouse) going off _before_ Rosenbaum charged Rittenhouse, and that Rosenbaum may have erroneously assumed Rittenhouse was an active shooter and wanted to stop him. If that’s so (and note that I have caveated this), **it again places this firmly into “clusterfuck” territory rather than “crazed violent thug attacks innocent boy for no reason whatsoever”.** [my bolding] I am of the opinion that clusterfuck is the correct term. It was all one, giant, clusterfuck. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rittenhouse-trial/953798/1509 "2021-11-23T02:37:00Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > The riots, arson, and looting serves a political interest. That’s why they were allowed to continue for over 3 months in some cities. That’s an unusual way you look at things. Please identify some political leaders who think they benefit from riots or looting. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rittenhouse-trial/953798/1510 "2021-11-23T02:52:51Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > support letting the police do their jobs, stop stoking racial hatred If we want less racial hatred, it looks like we need to find a way for police to do their jobs that involves less murdering of unthreatening PoC. You sound like you’re saying that Americans should just return to turning a blind eye to police abuses of power and cracking down harshly on protests of police misconduct, or else the armed white supremacist vigilantes will run amok and serve us right. ISTM that there really needs to be a better solution than that. ---
**Author:** ![yarblek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/71e660/32.png) [@yarblek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yarblek)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rittenhouse-trial/953798/1511 "2021-11-23T03:34:56Z")
If Rosenbaum was justified in attacking Rittenhouse, would he also have been justified in shooting him if he had a gun? Seems consistent to me. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rittenhouse-trial/953798/1512 "2021-11-23T08:00:20Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > > [@pkbites](#): > > > > > [@Loach](#): > > > > > > It is theoretically possible to get a concealed carry permit but unless you are a cop it’s basically impossible to get one. > > > > I’m curious. > > Why does a cop need a CCW permit? Doesn’t your states laws exempt peace officers from concealed carry prohibitions? And then there is HR218 which does not require any form of licensing or permit, just your ID card. > > A cop doesn’t. I just wanted to state in simple terms that other than police it’s basically impossible to carry in my state. And that’s apt to change under _**NEW YORK STATE RIFLE & PISTOL )**_ _ **ASSOCIATION VS BRUEN** _ if SCOTUS rules the way most think it will. I wonder if the court considered the Rittenhouse case when considering the New York case. They did speak about “sensitive” locations. Is an area of protest a “sensitive location”? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rittenhouse-trial/953798/1513 "2021-11-23T11:06:31Z")
> [@yarblek](#): > > If Rosenbaum was justified in attacking Rittenhouse, would he also have been justified in shooting him if he had a gun? Seems consistent to me. Given the “if” in that sentence, then presumably yes. I don’t think there’s any doubt that Rosenbaum was, objectively, **not** justified in attacking Rittenhouse. The question is whether (and why) he might have felt he was. And we’ll never know, because he’s dead. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rittenhouse-trial/953798/1514 "2021-11-23T12:13:42Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > I don’t believe there is ANY GOOD to come of anyone proclaiming shit like this. It’s almost like I wonder if that photo is part of some kind of false-flag disinformation campaign. Nobody should be saying shit like “I would burn the city down too.” First of all, cities haven’t “burned down.” Buildings WITHIN the city have been set on fire during riots, but literally “burning the city down” as if the entire city is on fire, is hyperbole of the type the right wing accuses the left of wanting to do, so why give them the validation? Secondly, deliberately setting fires, even if the buildings are empty of occupants, puts the lives of firemen at risk. A fire isn’t a protest sign with a message, fire is fire, it will spread wherever it wants to spread and burn whatever is in its path. > > If we have a situation in in this country where “the left” or “the Democrats” are _perceived_ as, in the main, being sympathetic to rioting and arson, then we are in extremely serious trouble, because it means the right is going to capitalize on this sentiment and promote the idea that every city in America is perpetually on the brink of rioting and that people need to “be prepared” the way that Kyle Rittenhouse was “prepared.” The fact that you’re wondering whether that kind of sentiment is a “false flag” because it’s bad for Democrats suggests to me that you don’t really fully understand what the message of a sign like that is. They are not worried about helping Democrats win elections. That’s a problem for the Democrats, not a problem for the protesters. Just because something is political doesn’t mean it’s blue versus red CNN chart politics. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rittenhouse-trial/953798/1515 "2021-11-23T13:40:59Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Also the rate of rifle homicides, as per 2019 FBI data, would come out to around 0.1 in 100,000 Oh, the numbers thing. How about probability of homicide during riots where weapons are present. From Kent state onward. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rittenhouse-trial/953798/1516 "2021-11-23T13:49:31Z")
> [@yarblek](#): > > If Rosenbaum was justified in attacking Rittenhouse, would he also have been justified in shooting him if he had a gun? Seems consistent to me. Possibly not. But , once Rittenhouse had shot two people he was free game. Had Rittenhouse been been the third death, there would not have been a trial. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rittenhouse-trial/953798/1517 "2021-11-23T14:14:06Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > > > Also the rate of rifle homicides, as per 2019 FBI data, would come out to around 0.1 in 100,000 > > Oh, the numbers thing. How about probability of homicide during riots where weapons are present. From Kent state onward. I don’t think Kent State was a “riot” and the only people armed were the Ohio National Guard; which however progressive we get I don’t think we’re going to disarm the military. I do think that incident is why today’s university Presidents would never call in the National Guard to deal with some rowdy students unless it had progressed to an extreme level. But I would say that firearms related deaths at protests / riots (I don’t like that we lump them together), weighted by the number of participants in them, is probably not terrible high as a percentage. We’ve had some very large protests with many hundreds of thousands of protesters at big gatherings in D.C. and etc, in which no one was shot. > [@Kimstu](#): > > You sound like you’re saying that Americans should just return to turning a blind eye to police abuses of power and cracking down harshly on protests of police misconduct, or else the armed white supremacist vigilantes will run amok and serve us right. Is anyone saying that here though? The thing about protesting police misconduct is that they had peaceful protest in downtown Kenosha the two days prior to the shooting incident, and each night they had violent, destructive riots. It is almost like the narrative is exactly what many local community leaders said it was–bad outside elements were coming into town each night because it was a fun excuse for them to loot and burn shit. Everyone involved in the Rittenhouse shooting actually had come from outside the community, which seems to corroborate. They also were all deliberately outside the police corridor that had been established in the core blocks of downtown Kenosha, almost like again, they had shown up to loot and burn shit so went to where they knew the police would not be. I believe even Jacob Blake’s family said “don’t riot and burn shit.” There’s a difference between peaceful protest–which Kenosha had during the daytime leading up to this shooting, and riots, which were going on each night. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rittenhouse-trial/953798/1518 "2021-11-23T15:27:44Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I don’t think Kent State was a “riot” The students burned an empty building. At the time I couldn’t believe the commander would send in an inexperienced force with live rounds. That’s insane. When in the military, the only time I was issued a weapon in an emergency situation, we were not given ammunition. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rittenhouse-trial/953798/1519 "2021-11-23T15:28:06Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Is anyone saying that here though? Looks like Sam\_Stone is, with his tsk-tsking about “stoking racial hatred”, which is rightwing-speak for “publicly complaining about acts of racial injustice and oppression”. I agree with you about the “peaceful protests good, criminal riots bad” distinction regarding public unrest. But Sam is telling us that we need to stifle the protesting, not just the rioting, as it’s “stoking racial hatred”. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rittenhouse-trial/953798/1520 "2021-11-23T16:17:39Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > > > I don’t think Kent State was a “riot” > > The students burned an empty building. > > At the time I couldn’t believe the commander would send in an inexperienced force with live rounds. That’s insane. When in the military, the only time I was issued a weapon in an emergency situation, we were not given ammunition. The same with me in the Army. That is until 9/11. Then next thing you know we are in Jersey City and Weehawken with loaded weapons. Things change. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rittenhouse-trial/953798/1521 "2021-11-23T16:19:29Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > > > I don’t think Kent State was a “riot” > > The students burned an empty building. > > At the time I couldn’t believe the commander would send in an inexperienced force with live rounds. That’s insane. When in the military, the only time I was issued a weapon in an emergency situation, we were not given ammunition. The Ohio National Guard’s standing rules at the time was that they would be fully armed with live rounds, so the commander was following their normally proscribed practice. The ONG changed a number of things in relation to how it could be used for crowd control purposes due to Kent State. One issue the guard had is they had a limited scope of tools–they had M1 Garands, 12 gauge shotguns, bayonets, a few pistols and tear gas canister. The tear gas being the only real non-lethal crowd control tool they had–and they were mostly ineffective that day due to the wind. I don’t remember the guardsmen involved being particularly inexperienced though, the five who were eventually indicted criminally (and all acquitted) ranged in age from something like 27 to 38, which would be unusual if men of that age in the National Guard had not already been through multiple enlistments. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rittenhouse-trial/953798/1522 "2021-11-23T16:26:46Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > so the commander was following their normally proscribed practice Nitpick: “prescribed”. “Proscribed” means forbidden or prohibited, while “prescribed” means recommended or required, so it’s one of those cases where a one-letter typo can really change the meaning. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rittenhouse-trial/953798.md?page=75) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rittenhouse-trial/953798.md?page=77)