# The RNC Sarah Palin Speech Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 4, 2008, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rnc-sarah-palin-speech-thread/461931 "2008-09-04T02:23:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rnc-sarah-palin-speech-thread/461931/181 "2008-09-04T17:24:31Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > When Republicans in her state tried to pass a law refusing spousal benefits to gay couples, Sarah Palin vetoed it. If I recall correctly, she supported the law but was told it would be unconstitutional. Therefore, she vetoed. I do not consider this a strong showing of support for gay rights. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rnc-sarah-palin-speech-thread/461931/182 "2008-09-04T17:25:34Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > When Republicans in her state tried to pass a law refusing spousal benefits to gay couples, Sarah Palin vetoed it. Geez…obscure the truth much? What you said is true, as far as it goes which is not very far. > [@](#): > > **Sarah Palin on the Issues** > \* Vetoed bill denying benefits to gays, as unconstitutional. (Aug 2008) > \* Marriage only be between and man and a woman. (Nov 2006) > \* Value our cultural diversity. (Nov 2006) > \* Ok to deny benefits to homosexual couples. (Aug 2006) > \* No spousal benefits for same-sex couples. (Jul 2006) > \* Top priorities include preserving definition of “marriage”. (Jul 2006) > > SOURCE: [http://www.ontheissues.org/Sarah\_Palin.htm](http://www.ontheissues.org/Sarah_Palin.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rnc-sarah-palin-speech-thread/461931/183 "2008-09-04T17:30:08Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > From this convention in particualr? I don’t kknow I haven’t watched that much of it. But listen to 5 or 10 minutes of right wing radio and it’s all about bashing undocumented workers, Muslims and homosexuals overtly, and bashing black people in slightly more coded language. > > There needs to be a law analogous to Godwin for when an internet poster automatically reduces any kind of liberal economic opinion to “Communism.” So we’re agreed that this “rhetoric” that is so fundamental to the conservative movement did not make it into the convention. Which suggests that it is not so fundamental as you implied. I will assure you that the Dems would be incapable of holding a convention at which socialized healthcare, the environment, or the rich getting richer, were not mentioned. Illegal aliens (oops, “undocumented workers”) are criminals. Is criticizing criminals now demonization? You and another poster did not just voice liberal economic opinion. You questioned the distribution of wealth in the country and implicitly militated for its re-distribution. Re-distribution of wealth is a bedrock tenet of communism. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rnc-sarah-palin-speech-thread/461931/184 "2008-09-04T17:30:15Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > You guys do know that there is essentially no difference between McCain/Palin and Obama/Biden when it comes to gay rights, don’t you? So McCain and Palin support the Employment Nondiscrimination Act, which would include sexual orientation as a protected class? That’s news to me. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rnc-sarah-palin-speech-thread/461931/185 "2008-09-04T17:31:39Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > And distribution of wealth is **completely random and arbitrary.** Can you explain this? I don’t recall competing in a lottery to determine how much wealth I’m supposed to have. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rnc-sarah-palin-speech-thread/461931/186 "2008-09-04T17:33:21Z")
> [@mazinger\_z](#): > > During my second summer in law school, I went to Chicago to clerk. While my “practicing law” was nowhere near what an associate does, the organizations that my senior partner suggested we volunteer for (to be fair, he volunteered too) were an awful lot like what you’re describing here. IME, the board of directors is as about as far removed from the community as one can get. Literally, if you’re on the board, you sit around and discuss budget and goals and objectives, kind of like in the corporate setting. It’s about an hour each meeting. Contrast to what I did, a volunteer, then you help with the menial activities, and actually meet the people your helping. At the time, my firm had tons of people with board of directors type jobs. With billing 2400+ hours a year, one wonders what time one has to devote to such projects. It was difficult for me, and I was a summer clerk. Every time I hear “community organizer,” I think Jesse Jackson – who, btw, showed up at a couple of fund raisers that we threw (nowhere nearly as annoying in person as he is on tv). His Board memberships have little to nothing to do with his career as a Community Organizer. For more about what it entailed, see [this article](http://www.edwoj.com/Alinsky/AlinskyObamaChapter1990.htm) written by Barack in 1990. An excerpt: > [@Barack Obama](#): > > . . .In theory, community organizing provides a way to merge various strategies for neighborhood empowerment. Organizing begins with the premise that (1) the problems facing inner-city communities do not result from a lack of effective solutions, but from a lack of power to implement these solutions; (2) that the only way for communities to build long-term power is by organizing people and money around a common vision; and (3) that a viable organization can only be achieved if a broadly based indigenous leadership — and not one or two charismatic leaders — can knit together the diverse interests of their local institutions. > > This means bringing together churches, block clubs, parent groups and any other institutions in a given community to pay dues, hire organizers, conduct research, develop leadership, hold rallies and education cam paigns, and begin drawing up plans on a whole range of issues — jobs, education, crime, etc. Once such a vehicle is formed, it holds the power to make politicians, agencies and corporations more responsive to commu nity needs. Equally important, it enables people to break their crippling isolation from each other, to reshape their mutual values and expectations and rediscover the possibilities of acting collaboratively — the prerequi sites of any successful self-help initiative. > > By using this approach, the Developing Communities Project and other organizations in Chicago’s inner city have achieved some impressive results. Schools have been made more accountable-Job training programs have been established; housing has been renovated and built; city services have been provided; parks have been refurbished; and crime and drug problems have been curtailed. Additionally, plain folk have been able to access the levers of power, and a sophisticated pool of local civic leadership has been developed. . . ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rnc-sarah-palin-speech-thread/461931/187 "2008-09-04T17:35:38Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Can you explain this? I don’t recall competing in a lottery to determine how much wealth I’m supposed to have. I was being ironical. When people start talking (as several have here) about the terrible, horrible inequity of rich people having more money than poor people, they tend to do so with the implicit assumption that rich people just stumbled across a couple of those canvas bags with dollar signs on them from the cartoons, and that poor people are poor because, Hell, I don’t know, Reagan came and took their house away. They tend simultaneously to ignore that well-off people disproportionately work harder, work smarter, and make better choices in their personal and financial lives than do people who remain perpetually poor (time is an important element: Thomas Sowell always insists on pointing out that many of the rich are people who earlier in life would have been counted as poor). It’s not uniformly true, some rich people have gotten money for nothing and chicks for free, some poor people have been shafted – but there is a level playing field over the long haul. It is called human existence. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rnc-sarah-palin-speech-thread/461931/188 "2008-09-04T17:36:10Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > You and another poster did not just voice liberal economic opinion. You questioned the distribution of wealth in the country and implicitly militated for its re-distribution. Re-distribution of wealth is a bedrock tenet of communism. As I am the “other poster” I say bullshit. Cite please where I advocated communism please or kindly retract your spurious assertions. EDIT: I got too personal…fixed. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rnc-sarah-palin-speech-thread/461931/189 "2008-09-04T17:39:08Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > As I am the “other poster” I say bullshit. > > Cite please where I advocated communism please or cram your spurious assertions. > [@](#): > > **w-a-m** So over 20% of the country’s wealth being in the hands of 0.5% of the population is your idea of a good thing? Having an opinion of any kind as to whether how the market works is a “good thing” is an implicit suggestion that you do not agree with letting the chips fall where they may, and that you are at least open to having someone (hint: the State, the Rodina) put its thumb on the scale to correct this “bad thing.” ETA: no offense at the cram suggestion, I know I was being provocative, but I really get scared when people start suggesting, in a political context, that the distribution of wealth is something that can and should be calibrated by government or by anyone. Lots and lots of bad things started that way. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rnc-sarah-palin-speech-thread/461931/190 "2008-09-04T17:52:12Z")
Not being a complete free market libertarian doesn’t equate to Communism. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rnc-sarah-palin-speech-thread/461931/191 "2008-09-04T17:54:32Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > Having an opinion of any kind as to whether how the market works is a “good thing” is an implicit suggestion that you do not agree with letting the chips fall where they may, and that you are at least open to having someone (hint: the State, the Rodina) put its thumb on the scale to correct this “bad thing.” Quite a leap of logic and assumption there. Thinking that there should be a more even income distribution is a FAR cry from going all Robin Hood and I said _nothing_ to that effect. Point to a country, historically, which was successful when the gap between the haves and the have-nots has grown disproportionately large that you would deem as successful and in good order. Desiring a more even income equality can be achieved numerous ways without resorting to robbing the rich and giving to the poor. The discussion that led to that was the Reps lack of diversity. When a substantial portion of society is not represented in a national political party it is worthy of note. They are running for an office that is supposed to represent and look after _all_ Americans. Not just the wealthy. Not just the white people. As an aside I recommend you read [Unequal Democracy](http://www.amazon.com/Unequal-Democracy-Political-Economy-Foundation/dp/0691136637/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1220550477&sr=8-1). It is a scholarly study into the economoic inequities introduced by Republicans versus Democrats. I offer it to show that “liberal” policies in no way equate to communism and that the country overall prospers more under the liberal regime (the rich still get richer, just not at the breakneck pace Reps tend to offer). Here’s an excerpt from the New York Times Business section (bolding mine): > [@](#): > > I call the first fact the Great Partisan Growth Divide. Simply put, the United States economy has grown faster, on average, under Democratic presidents than under Republicans. > > The stark contrast between the whiz-bang Clinton years and the dreary Bush years is familiar because it is so recent. But while it is extreme, it is not atypical. Data for the whole period from 1948 to 2007, during which Republicans occupied the White House for 34 years and Democrats for 26, show average annual growth of real gross national product of 1.64 percent per capita under Republican presidents versus 2.78 percent under Democrats. > > \ > > The second big historical fact, which might be called the Great Partisan Inequality Divide, is the focus of Professor Bartels’s work. > > It is well known that income inequality in the United States has been on the rise for about 30 years now — an unsettling development that has finally touched the public consciousness. But Professor Bartels unearths a stunning statistical regularity: Over the entire 60-year period, income inequality trended substantially upward under Republican presidents but slightly downward under Democrats, thus accounting for the widening income gaps over all. And the bad news for America’s poor is that Republicans have won five of the seven elections going back to 1980. > > \ > > **The table also shows that families at the 95th percentile fared almost as well under Republican presidents as under Democrats (1.90 percent growth per year, versus 2.12 percent), giving them little stake, economically, in election outcomes.** But the stakes were enormous for the less well-to-do. Families at the 20th percentile fared much worse under Republicans than under Democrats (0.43 percent versus 2.64 percent). Eight years of growth at an annual rate of 0.43 percent increases a family’s income by just 3.5 percent, while eight years of growth at 2.64 percent raises it by 23.2 percent. > > SOURCE: [http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/31/business/31view.html?em](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/31/business/31view.html?em) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rnc-sarah-palin-speech-thread/461931/192 "2008-09-04T17:57:14Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > So we’re agreed that this “rhetoric” that is so fundamental to the conservative movement did not make it into the convention. I don’t know if it did or not. I haven’t paid that much attention. Even if they hide it at their conventions, though (at least in prime time), that really does not make the GOP an any less hostile seeming place for anyone who isn’t a straight (or at least closeted) white Christian. ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rnc-sarah-palin-speech-thread/461931/193 "2008-09-04T18:07:07Z")
My opinion of Palin’s speech: Delivery: OK. Content: Basically a standard political campaign speech, Republican flavor; main themes, in no particular order, were [ul] [li]I’m a regular gal like you[/li][li]My opponent is all talk and no substance[/li][li]My record shows that I’m strong and that I work for the people[/li][li]Rah rah small-town America[/li][li]We need a big, tough war hero to protect us in this big, scary world[/li][li]John McCain is a great man[/li][li]My opponent will raise your taxes.[/li][/ul] I think the speechwriters were playing it safe. They didn’t want her to come across as weird, crazy, or Nanook of the North. I was surprised to count only three religious references. ---
**Author:** ![Desert\_Nomad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desert_nomad/32/177_2.png) [@Desert\_Nomad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desert_Nomad)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rnc-sarah-palin-speech-thread/461931/194 "2008-09-04T18:08:03Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > Okay, bye. We’re devastated and whatnot. Mostly whatnot. > > Why wouldn’t you get your own damn health care, by the way? Are you a child, or a mental incompetent? Just wondering. Most adults can care for themselves, it turns out. I am self employed, have a pre-existing condition, and have been turned down for health insurance by every company license in my state. That’s why. It is not that I can’t afford it (I earn 6 figures)… but I am “uninsurable” in the same category as AIDS and diabetes (a somewhat rare genetic disorder that has little or no affect on my day to day life). ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rnc-sarah-palin-speech-thread/461931/195 "2008-09-04T18:08:31Z")
I think the cheap shots will appeal to certain people…and she might gain some ground. I think she’s going to be eaten alive in the debates. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rnc-sarah-palin-speech-thread/461931/196 "2008-09-04T18:08:49Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Even if they hide it at their conventions Occam does not approve. The Dems certainly don’t hide their class warfare at their convention. Principles which are fundamental to appealing to the base (of any party) are not omitted from the party-faithful gathering. From that I conclude that “demonization of minorities” is not (as you alleged) a fundamental principle of conservatism or Republicanism, or they would not have omitted to fire up their base by pounding the table with it. **w-a-m**"Looking like America" is not always something the Dems do too well, either. The below is obviously from a partisan site, but I could likely reproduce the figures from Census data if I took the time. [http://www.heritage.org/Press/Commentary/ed110607a.cfm](http://www.heritage.org/Press/Commentary/ed110607a.cfm) It was also pretty widely documented in 2000 that Bush received more money in small donations, versus Gore, who lit it up with big Hollywood and Wall Street money. Who can really claim to represent the grassroots more? [http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9501E3DF1E3CF93BA35751C1A9669C8B63](http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9501E3DF1E3CF93BA35751C1A9669C8B63) ---
**Author:** ![Desert\_Nomad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desert_nomad/32/177_2.png) [@Desert\_Nomad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desert_Nomad)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rnc-sarah-palin-speech-thread/461931/197 "2008-09-04T18:09:36Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I don’t know how I’m going to get over the fact that you might not move to the US if the Republicans win. We’ll send you a postcard to let you know how we’re doing. It’s ok… I left when Bush got elected (lots of people say they will leave, few do). I’d like to come back as the cost of living in the US is dirt cheap, but it all rides on health insurance. ---
**Author:** ![Desert\_Nomad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desert_nomad/32/177_2.png) [@Desert\_Nomad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desert_Nomad)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rnc-sarah-palin-speech-thread/461931/198 "2008-09-04T18:11:56Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > Okay, bye. We’re devastated and whatnot. Mostly whatnot. I am sure that Nevada would have rather seen the million-or-so dollars I have put into foreign economies since I left the country. The lack of access to health care hurts everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rnc-sarah-palin-speech-thread/461931/199 "2008-09-04T18:18:25Z")
> [@Desert\_Nomad](#): > > I am sure that Nevada would have rather seen the million-or-so dollars I have put into foreign economies since I left the country. The lack of access to health care hurts everyone. This is admittedly becoming a hijack, but if it were as simple as that, nothing other than cartoonish mustache-twirling conservative evil-for-evil’s sake (I remember some idiot N.Y.T. columnist insanely imagining some G.O.P. gathering where they “got together to figure out ways to deny Americans health care”) would explain why socialized medicine was not already in place. By which I mean, the taxes necessary to fund socialized medicine could very well prove much more of an economic disincentive to investment in the U.S. than would the lack of socialized medicine. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rnc-sarah-palin-speech-thread/461931/200 "2008-09-04T18:22:33Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > **w-a-m**"Looking like America" is not always something the Dems do too well, either. > > The below is obviously from a partisan site, but I could likely reproduce the figures from Census data if I took the time. > > [http://www.heritage.org/Press/Commentary/ed110607a.cfm](http://www.heritage.org/Press/Commentary/ed110607a.cfm) > > It was also pretty widely documented in 2000 that Bush received more money in small donations, versus Gore, who lit it up with big Hollywood and Wall Street money. Who can really claim to represent the grassroots more? > > [http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9501E3DF1E3CF93BA35751C1A9669C8B63](http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9501E3DF1E3CF93BA35751C1A9669C8B63) I am not suggesting that the national parties need to adhere exactly to the census data. However, there is lopsided and a completely tipped balance. Again, look at the Republican convention. I really tried hard last night to spot minorities. I was looking for it. I saw practically none and that is stunning. How can they _possibly_ claim to represent America when a very substantial portion of America is, for all intents and purposes, not represented in their makeup? As for donations there are plenty of poor (or not rich) white people (indeed I think there are slightly more white people on welfare than minorities). That Bush got more small donations is hardly surprising as poor white voters tend to be “values” voters. The wealthy white voters vote with their pocket book, the poor white vote with their bibles which the Reps own. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rnc-sarah-palin-speech-thread/461931.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rnc-sarah-palin-speech-thread/461931.md?page=11)