Now that I think about it, I wonder why more NFL coaches don’t go over there and pick up your torpedo kickers to turn them into punters. American punters are afraid of getting hit. Darren Bennett, of course, was just as likely as any linebacker to put his shoulders down and slam a punt returner to the ground.
To expand on answers already given, it must be a handball (ie punched not thrown, usually punched out of one hand, using the other) but unfortunately this can be and is “fudged” a fair bit. Sometimes a player will more or less throw the ball with one hand, but (at least nominally) tap it with the other as he does so. This counts as a lawful handball, but it’s a bit iffy.
I wonder about this also. There’s Darren Bennett and, more recently, Ben Graham (not sure where he’s at exactly). I have a feeling that you’ll see more and more ex-AFL dudes going over to become punters as time goes on.
Re the US AFL comp(s), I would expect you’d have enough ex-pat Aussies over there to make this viable even without too much local interest.
Well, the USAFL itself doesn’t generate much interest because they’re American teams and they stink. I seem to recall reading about USAFL teams getting slaughtered mercilessly by bottom-table AFL teams in exhibition games over there. But there’s enough American-born talent to make a decent national team.
Honestly, though, I think it’d be a while before it caught here. For one thing, there are no cricket grounds anywhere, or extremely few; Australia had the fields for football before they had the football, because of cricket, but we don’t have that. For another, Americans are wary of sports that weren’t invented within our borders, as I’m sure you know. Soccer is still fighting for attention even though ratings were good during this World Cup.
More AFL questions after watching Collingwood-Hawthorn from Round 17:
What’s a disposal?
What exactly is a clearance? Is the 50-meter marking involved in the definition of that stat?
How exactly is a “tackle” defined for the purpose of statistics?
Also, it seems like that funky hand motion/techno dance the goal umpires did over their heads in some other games I saw is apparently actually mimicking what they would normally do with a flag to signal that the ball went clear between the posts instead of hitting one. Why do they sometimes have the flag and sometimes not?
When John Barker was getting ready to kick for goal for Hawthorn, a stat came up on the screen that said he’d “kicked 7 goals in the VFL last week”. I thought the VFL was kind of a minor league or something. Do some people really play for both leagues at the same time?
Do the head coaches really sit in skyboxes, or are those all assistants?
Why are so many games played at the MCG? Is that part of the league contract that puts a bunch of playoff games there too? Very weird. How much support is there in Australia for that?
How common is it for people from UK/Ireland/all those other darn English-speaking countries in the same place to get involved in the AFL? They miked up the umpire for the broadcast, and he sounded like he had an English accent.
Also, are there AFL threads with “local-minded” commentary etc. on NADS, that won’t get sidetracked by Americans and their questions? 
And a question on Australian English: Did I correctly hear the play-by-play commentator call one player’s execution of a play “copybook”? Is that you guys’ word for “textbook”?
Lots of good questions here.
**What’s a disposal? **A kick or handpass. So if a player had 10 kicks, 8 handpasses, 11 marks, two ruck tapouts (etc) they would still have 18 disposals. Ten years ago disposals meant a great deal - the midfielder with the most disposals/ possessions would be best on ground and the team with the most would usually win. As more players get behind the ball and run to get uncontested possesion, disposals mean less and less. A player getting a lot of possessions is said to be “a ball magnet” have “leather poisoning” or be “knocked up getting it”. I don’t really understand that last one.
What exactly is a clearance? It’s taking the ball away from a ruck contest which occurs at the start of quarters, after goals and at boundary throw-ins. A ruck contest is when two tall guys jump for the ball delivered to them by the umpire.
How exactly is a “tackle” defined for the purpose of statistics? dunno.
**Also, it seems like that funky hand motion/techno dance the goal umpires did over their heads in some other games I saw is apparently actually mimicking what they would normally do with a flag to signal that the ball went clear between the posts instead of hitting one. Why do they sometimes have the flag and sometimes not?**Not quite sure what you mean, but here’s what goal umpires do: first hand signals, then flags. Usually the TV has cut away when there is flag waving. When there is a goal, the goal umpire signals with a finger on each hand as if saying “the fish was 50 cm long”. Then they wave two flags This is to signal to the goal umpire at the other end of the ground, who waves his/ hers in confirmation. They then write down the score and cross check after each quarter.
If a shot misses the goals but is a point - that is, goes between one of the big stick and one of the small sticks - or goes through the goals in any way other than by last contact below the knee of a player on the attacking side or hits a goal post, then the umpire gives a explanatory signal (touched/ rushed/ missed on the run - taps one hand to the other; hit the post - hits the post; missed from a set shot - no signal) and then sticks one finger out. Then waves one flag, writes it down in notebook.
Regrettably goal umpires are no longer allowed to lean back as the ball goes over their heads to acknowledge a particularly majestic goal.
**When John Barker was getting ready to kick for goal for Hawthorn, a stat came up on the screen that said he’d “kicked 7 goals in the VFL last week”. I thought the VFL was kind of a minor league or something. Do some people really play for both leagues at the same time?**The second teams of Melbourne clubs play in the VFL. Kind of. Players looking for form or returning from injury tend to resume in the VFL (or the WAFL or SANFL).
The situation is complicated by history. The AFL used to be the VFL (before it went national). The current VFL used to be the VFA. And the seconds competition used to be the Reserves (or popularly, the Magoos [=twos]. The Reserves competition is no more and AFL clubs are associated with clubs in lesser leagues.
**Do the head coaches really sit in skyboxes, or are those all assistants?**Yes, the coach sits in the box. He may send messages by phone down to the runner on the bench who will relay stuff out onto the ground. The coach comes dwon onto the ground to address the players at quarter and three quarter time.
**Why are so many games played at the MCG? Is that part of the league contract that puts a bunch of playoff games there too? Very weird. How much support is there in Australia for that?**The MCG is the temple of Australian sport (disclosure: I’m a member). The game developed there. The current AFL is an offshoot of Victorian football - despite the fact that the competition is rigged in favour of interstate clubs. Moving the grand final somewhere else is not really a consideration.
Of the odd situation in recent years where it was possible for a final to played at the G when it “should” be played interstate, that was a contractual bungle by the AFL.
**How common is it for people from UK/Ireland/all those other darn English-speaking countries in the same place to get involved in the AFL? They miked up the umpire for the broadcast, and he sounded like he had an English accent.**There have been a couple of Irish players (their game has some similarity to ours) and there are certainly players and officials from various ethnic backgrounds in the game. Watching the game would suggest that Australia is both whiter and more Aboriginal than it actually is.
Also, are there AFL threads with “local-minded” commentary etc. on NADS, that won’t get sidetracked by Americans and their questions? Not much that I know of. G’Dope has a lot of Sydneysiders, so we don’t even agree on what footy is.
**And a question on Australian English: Did I correctly hear the play-by-play commentator call one player’s execution of a play “copybook”? Is that you guys’ word for “textbook”?**No, a copybook is where you (once would have) put your examples of your best handwriting. So if you were doing some homework, you’d work out what you were going to say on some rough paper and then, having sharpened your nib, carefully written the final version in your copybook. The other time the word crops up is when someone is said to have “blotted their copybook” - made a mess of their record.
I doubt this. My guess is that no team outside Australia would have a chance against the second grade team of a VFL club. You couldn’t have a proper game of amateurs against an AFL club - the professionals couldn’t play seriously for fear of killing people.
On punters for the NFL, it looks like Saverio Rocca (currently Nth Melbourne, formerly Collingwood) is going to come your way soon. He is a big kick of the ball. I haven’t seen him kick many torps recently - mostly drop punts, which is the standard kick in our game these days.
Swaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnneeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees!!!
Unfortunately, the Sydney Swans waited until i had been out of the country for five years before getting around to winning a premiership. When i was an undergrad, one of my side jobs was working as a host for a company in their private box at the Sydney Cricket Ground, and let me tell you there’s nothing better than getting paid to watch the footy. They also had a box at the Sydney Football Stadium, so i also got to see rugby games, concerts, etc.
(for those who don’t know Sydney, the Australian Rules games are played at the Cricket Ground, not at the Football Stadium, because only the former is large enough for Aussie Rules)
Last year, Comcast Sportsnet carried a one hour highlights package each week, and a couple of my Aussie friends would come over and watch it with me on Friday evenings. First would be a 30-35 minute condensed Game of the Week, then about 25 minutes giving higlights of all the other games, and general news about the AFL.
Apparently the demand for this coverage wasn’t great enough, because CSN isn’t carrying it this season, and no other channels on basic cable have any AFL either. Bastards. So i’m having to keep up with the season over the internet.
I really agree with don’t ask that it’s a much better game to watch live than on TV. Being at the ground allows you see all the positional build-up that occurs away from the ball, with players leading into gaps or wrestling for position. The strategy is much easier to appreciate when you can see all that stuff.
What does that mean?
Oh, and I understand your username now. 
How?
Those two races seem to dominate, yes, and I did start getting that picture. Of course, I should’ve realized that since it’s easy to get an inaccurate picture of American demographics by watching our sports, TV and movies, Australia would have to be similar in that regard.
Is football different in Sydney?
Torpedo kicking (if I understand its meaning over there correctly) basically defines the modern punter in American football. A center with good feet and a knack for escaping nasty scrums could probably make a decent running back here, though, and from some of the marks I’ve seen you guys could probably feed us some wide receivers and tight ends too. The thing about the NFL hiring foreigners is that people are pigeonholed into a position based on the sport/nation they came from. Latin Americans and Europeans are placekickers, Australians are punters. When people from those places and sports are introduced to American football they’re told “Oh, you’ll do well in this position” and who are they to argue?
For an annual membership fee, you can become a member of the Melbourne Cricket Ground. Same at the Sydney Cricket Ground. Members have certain privileges, like the pick of better seats, etc. I’m not exactly sure what all of the benefits are; i’m sure hawthorne can explain it to you.
But membership is limited to a certain number of people, and the waiting list to join is years long. I know a guy whose parents put his name on the waiting list just after he was born, and his opportunity to join the SCG opened up sometime in his early twenties.
Well, in Melbourne, if you say football, everyone knows (or assumes) that you mean Aussie Rules.
In Sydney, where Australian Rules has only really had a strong presence since the 1980s, the term football can just as easily apply to rugby league, and some people even apply it to rugby union. Rugby league has traditionally been the main football code in Sydney, although Australian Rules has become increasingly popular. I imagine that it really got a boost from the Swans’ premiership victory last year.
In my experience, most Sydneysiders use the following terminology:
football = rugby league
rugby = rugby union
Aussie rules or “the AFL” = Australian Rules
As a non-Victorian (now living in Melbourne), I have to take issue with the claim that the competition is rigged in favour of non-Victorian clubs. I daresay its a claim made usually by Victorians and one that we wouldn’t hear if the Vic teams were doing better… but it doesn’t follow that because most of the interstate teams are doing alright, that they have an advantage.
Its hard to compare apples with oranges, but basically the league has agreed to give salary cap concessions to the interstate teams by way of (as I understand it) compensating them for the extra travelling and other shit that goes with not being from Melbourne. (The salary cap is a limit set by the league on how much each team can spend on players’ salaries each year, so you don’t have teams with the biggest chequebooks winning every year.) There’s a LOT to this issue but suffice it to say its highly contentious, especially if you barrack for a Melbourne team that isn’t doing very well.
Also re Aboriginality, I disagree. If you live in Melbourne, you won’t see a huge proportion of Aboriginal folks around the place. Go to Western Australia, however, and you’ll see plenty more. Doesn’t the indigenous community make up something like 10% of our population? They sure don’t make up more than 10% of the AFL players, do they? If they do, it would be touch and go.
Hardly.
The 2001 census lists the total Australian population at 18,769,249, with an indigienous population of 410,003, or about 2.2%.
The country’s total population has now topped 20 million, and Wikipedia lists the indigenous population at about 458,000, or about 2.25%.
We will, of course, have a better idea of up-to-date numbers after the next Aussie census, which is next Tuesday, August 8.
What mhendo said about Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders.
I don’t support Hawthorn, I like St Kilda. My user name is for the Hawthorne effect.
Perhaps my comment that the competition is rigged in favour of the interstate teams was a little over the top. It was certainly unclear. I think the effects of the various salary cap concessions, father-son rules etc are unclear. However, the large number of Victorian clubs is clear and is the source of the disadvantage I think skews the competition.
The Weagles play (about) half their games in Perth. Except when they are playing the Dockers, this means they have a significant home ground advantage about half the time. The other team has to travel and faces a one-sided crowd (which may in turn sway the umpiring). But for a Melbourne team many of their home games against another Melbourne team (or the one from Sleepy Hollow). The opposition is not weakened by travel and the crowd is a lot closer to 50/ 50.
It seems the drop punt is the kick employed for a pooch punt in gridiron. Sav Rocca can kick one of these about 65 metres. The torpedo is held in the hands differently and spins around its long axis (rather than backwards end over end). The drop punt has largely supplanted the torp, the flat punt and the drop kick in Australian Rules due to its accuracy, drier grounds, consistent coaching methods and risk-aversion.
Being a member of the Melbourne Cricket Club means I can pay about $400 a year and walk up and go into the ground without booking a ticket on pretty much any day I want. Since my daughter was born I’ve seen half a day of a Test cricket match. The facilities are now quite good. For some years the conditions in the members’ were much worse than in the outer. My daughter’s nomination form was filled in by my father the day she was born.
Especially if you barrack for Fitzroy, or South Melbourne. :rolleyes: I thought everyone was over this sort of thing.
Indigenous people on this side of the continent in urban areas are just as few and far between as they are on the east coast. The Kimberley and Pilbara are obviously different kettles of fish.
Really? That’s a bit sad.
I really, really need to add, in closing, that West Coast Eagles beat Saint Kilda this weekend. For those of you overseas, there have only been two Eagles premierships since we joined the Victorian league in 1986 (1992 and 1994, both against Geelong), and we lost to Sydney in the finals last year. This year I’m keeping my fingers crossed. West Coast fans take particular delight in the Eagles beating Melbourne-based teams. Prior to joining the AFL, West Australian players used to get poached by Melbourne-based teams to play in Victoria (the Eagles team song has the line, “For years they took the best of us”). In turn, the team was loathed especially in the late 80s in Victoria, even by television football commentators who seemed not to care less that there was a West Australian audience. (The South Australian teams really seem to have taken on the mantle of reviling Victorian teams, though - interstate rivalry linked to the loss of the Grand Prix?)
I’m not sure what point you’re making. A statement was made that the competition is rigged in favour of the interstate clubs and I was merely responding to it with an opposing viewpoint.
Btw, I just went through the fixture and noted that Collingwood play some 19 of their 22 games in Melbourne this year. Last night was their second non-Melbourne game for the season. And Eddie is the one screaming the loudest about the interstate clubs’ supposed advantage over the Melbourne teams.