# The Roads To Being Published **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 14, 2004, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-roads-to-being-published/239900 "2004-04-14T02:35:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-roads-to-being-published/239900/21 "2004-04-15T20:40:36Z")
> [@yosemitebabe](#): > > What? Am I chopped liver, here? Will no one answer my question? > > I’ll rephrase it: Is someone who finishes a manuscript, self-publishes, and then _sells_ the book at a fairly steady level (and gets positive feedback from buyers) a “writer” or not? > > There are quite a few people who have done this. Are they “writers”? Or not? I don’t care if _ **I** _ am called a writer (because to be honest, I don’t feel like one), but if jarbabyj or anyone else self-publishes and is able to sell their efforts, have they “arrived” as a writer, or does it take more than that? I’d say you’re a writer. Being a “writer” doesn’t make you a good one, or a bad one. Just a “writer.” By the way…there are LOTS and LOTS of paid, published “writers” who aren’t worth a hill of beans in the eyes of “real” writers (and by “real”, I mean those who are truly respected in the literary world). There’s more crap out there than can be imagined. Just take a look at the “Best Seller” list!!! I suppose by some standards, these people are considered writers. But by others, they’re nothing more than highly paid, immensely popular, hacks. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-roads-to-being-published/239900/22 "2004-04-15T20:44:08Z")
Or truly respected in their particular field, technical or otherwise. Didn’t mean to diss anyone. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-roads-to-being-published/239900/23 "2004-04-15T21:00:18Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > I’d say you’re a writer. Being a “writer” doesn’t make you a good one, or a bad one. Just a “writer.” Thanks. That makes sense. 🙂 Comparing this to art (since I do self-identify as an artist), I know that if I see someone who has done a whole lot of great artwork, it wouldn’t matter to me whether they’d ever been in an art gallery or published their artwork or ever sold a thing. If they can produce good artwork (in my estimation), then as far as I’m concerned, they’re an _artist_. Much more than the appalling Thomas Kinkaide hacks out there. So how does this translate over to the writing world? Can a person who writes wonderful manuscripts (that are universally praised by anyone who reads them) a “writer,” even though they are not yet published? ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-roads-to-being-published/239900/24 "2004-04-15T21:18:57Z")
> [@yosemitebabe](#): > > Thanks. That makes sense. 🙂 > > Comparing this to art (since I do self-identify as an artist), I know that if I see someone who has done a whole lot of great artwork, it wouldn’t matter to me whether they’d ever been in an art gallery or published their artwork or ever sold a thing. If they can produce good artwork (in my estimation), then as far as I’m concerned, they’re an _artist_. Much more than the appalling Thomas Kinkaide hacks out there. > > So how does this translate over to the writing world? Can a person who writes wonderful manuscripts (that are universally praised by anyone who reads them) a “writer,” even though they are not yet published? Absolutely! You have to write it before you’re published. All the great books of your life had to be written before anyone decided they were worth being published (anyone beside the WRITER, that is!). Experience and the New York Times will tell whether or not you’ve got the “write” stuff. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2004, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-roads-to-being-published/239900/25 "2004-04-16T00:24:26Z")
> [@jarbabyj](#): > > Yes, perhaps I do have a chip on my shoulder. Some of the first words of advice I received on these boards regarding writing were from RealityChuck. I asked about editors, and their use. Then took it to private email where I jokingly asked if Chuck wanted to be a freelance editor. > > To which you replied, flatly. “You couldn’t afford it.” > > Nice. Well, that was intended as a joke on my part and I’m certain I put a smiley after it. I’m sorry I gave you the impression I was serious about it. > [@](#): > > Your sig makes it look like it’s attributed to you, the AUTHOR of the two books you listed. Perhaps that’s the effect you want, I don’t know. No more than when I use any other quote in my sig (I do change them). I don’t claim authorship any more than I would if my quote were “The pellet with the poison’s in the flagon with the dragon. The vessel with the pestle is the brew that is true” (which I have used). I’d think the quote marks would be an indication I was quoting someone. > [@](#): > > And it’s this attitude of yours that just because I’m not published I don’t write “well” that sticks in my craw. You have NO. IDEA. if I write well or not. You should know very well that there are some excellent books and authors out there not getting published. _Exactly._ I don’t know if you write well or not. And, for that matter, neither do you. You may be a great writer, but unless someone chooses to publish you, no one will ever know, including you. > [@](#): > > No maybe about it, pal. I’m a writer. Just like someone who slaves in the kitchen all day on a Thanksgiving meal is a COOK, regardless of whether it’s in a five star restaurant. Just like someone who is in plays all their life without being paid for it is an ACTOR. My main point is that there is a major difference between someone who writes to please themselves and those who write to be published. (And it’s not just the money – there are writers who work in the small press world and earn nothing, but do get published.) You may like to write, but until you’re published (and it really isn’t all that impossible), you’re at a different level. There is nothing wrong with that; everyone starts that way. And I urge everyone who writes to do everything in their power to get published. Because if you think it’s great when your friends tell you they love what you’ve written, that’s nothing compared to the feeling when someone accepts your manuscript. I want every would-be writer to be able to experience that. The great thing of my quote is that _anyone_ can reach publication if they work hard enough (I’m a firm believer in Heinlein’s five rules). My goal whenever anyone asks me writing advice is to find ways for anyone who wants to be a published writer to achieve that dream and avoid being ripped off on the way… > [@](#): > > When I think of the blood, sweat and tears I’ve put into trying to get published, the hoops I’ve jumped through the near constant rejection I’ve put up with, the advice I’ve taken (which turned out to be bad AND good), the idea that YOU don’t think I’m a writer is hilarious. And why should my opinion matter to you? If you think you’re a writer, then think so. But you’re still operating at a different level. Getting published – even in a small press magazine that pays in copies – is a big milestone. I sincerely hope you achieve it. BTW, one reason I like the quote is that all too many people who like to write are afraid to try to get published. I’m trying to get them to forget about their fear of rejection and go for it. > [@yosemitebabe](#): > > I’ll rephrase it: Is someone who finishes a manuscript, self-publishes, and then sells the book at a fairly steady level (and gets positive feedback from buyers) a “writer” or not? > > There are quite a few people who have done this. Are they “writers”? Or not? I don’t care if I am called a writer (because to be honest, I don’t feel like one), but if jarbabyj or anyone else self-publishes and is able to sell their efforts, have they “arrived” as a writer, or does it take more than that? Sure – if they’re actually making money from self-publishing (Yog’s Law: Money flows _toward_ the writer), then the audience calls them a writer. This is rare, but it does happen from time to time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-roads-to-being-published/239900.md?page=1)