# The role of satiety in obesity **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 16, 2014, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-role-of-satiety-in-obesity/707375 "2014-12-16T08:07:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-role-of-satiety-in-obesity/707375/41 "2014-12-18T01:30:35Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > I guess I’m one of the two then. I’m still down 40 lbs after 5 years. I guess I’m one of them, too. I’m 5’ 6". Short but muscular/stocky. I was never athletic growing up. Never played sports. I was fat during college. When I graduated from college in 1992, I weighed between 210 and 220 pounds. Was very flabby and out-of-shape. In 1993 I changed my style of eating. By 1995 I was around 150 pounds. And… I’ve kept at it. Since 1995 I have stayed below 160 pound. I weighed myself three days ago and was 155 pounds. My goal is to be under 150 pounds by the end of January. I will continue with this style of eating until I die. ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-role-of-satiety-in-obesity/707375/42 "2014-12-18T01:44:44Z")
I don’t think I could ever give up wheat and wheat products like bread. They are so cheap and convenient. Everyone in my family is willing to eat them. They store well, transport well and are not messy to eat. Whole wheat has fibre, protein, B vitamins and some minerals I know people talk about convenience foods being a negative influence on a healthy diet but I didn’t realise they were talking about bread. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-role-of-satiety-in-obesity/707375/43 "2014-12-18T01:47:16Z")
Hey guys, I appreciate the stories! I have definitely _not_ said that losing 5% has no health benefits. I just said that that is not going to count as a weight loss success to most people, since they want to look good and not just improve some blood markers (though they would probably be happy to improve the blood markers too). The paleo community definitely feeds off an adversarial relationship with the CW, so I am likely bringing some/a lot of that into the discussion. Sorry about that! ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-role-of-satiety-in-obesity/707375/44 "2014-12-18T02:10:16Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > This sounds pretty close to the Paleo approach. All the Paleo sorts I know go on about not eating potatoes and bread and dairy. I don’t restrict them, but I also eat them in reasonable amounts. You won’t get fat from sour cream on a baked potato twice a week for chrissake or from cream in your coffee (unless you drink a pot of coffee a day). > [@](#): > > It seems all truly successful diets start with “eliminate the junk/processed foods.” It’s a good place to start for obvious reasons. Even reduction would help a lot of people. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-role-of-satiety-in-obesity/707375/45 "2014-12-18T02:14:12Z")
**Aeschines** , it might actually be easier to have that interesting conversation if I ignore some of what you are saying (:)) and instead focus on just that one part of it! Let’s not go into how you believe doctors and nutritionists know so little and that wheat thang and focus on that focus on satiety being key. I’ll mostly agree there with some important additional comments. First and again, that the other bit that must be addressed - hyperpalatability. What happened in the modern world IMHO that has triggered a worldwide obesity problem is that the Food Industrial Complex have surrounded us with hyperpalatable foods of low satiety. Some brains for a variety of reasons (genetics, changes from exposures, so on) are more prone to than others to be triggered overeat in the face of that than others but it triggers a good many people to do so. Weight gain that is established then also convinces the brain that it is supposed to be there, creating a set-point that the body defends in the face of loss. Again, IMHO, long term success is achieved least painfully by creating a personal environment in which you are not so exposed to those hyperpalatable, low satiety foods, and in which you succeed in revising the dysfunctional set point. Exercise seems to help on the set point part significantly and more in that regard than in the calories burned. Some general trends exist for satiety and palatability (shorthand as Pollan does with “eat food, not too much, mostly plants” or with “higher protein and fiber with little refined carbs, sugars, and processed shit”) but individuals do vary and what is tolerable long term varies by individual even more. Hence different approaches will be best fits for different people. Societally long term success is best achieved by preventing obesity in the first place. You may be correct that messaging those bits is not easy. Hence the popularity of “plans” that achieve those aspects for some people, be it low carb, or paleo, Zone, Ornish, or low GI, or veganism, or whatever. My response to someone who feels “fat and frustrated … extremely disappointed and dissatisfied” when they had succeeded in making the changes that significantly impacted their health would be that it is fine to keep going for reasons of looks or whatever but to not lose sight of the importance of what they have accomplished and to remember that what matter most from that point is not becoming thin but at least maintaining the fat loss and keeping up with the behaviors that resulted in it, the better food choices and the progressively improving fitness, even if the scale no longer delivers a single additional attaboy. Yes they will still have to deal with those who judge them based on the fact they are not thin and who then make assumptions about their self-discipline and so on. Sorry that people are ignorant but you cannot set yourself up for failure because of the ignorance of others. The various plan promoters are so hyped on hyping their plans, very often as the one true way, that they lose sight of what they, and nutrition patterns across the world that have been associated with low obesity rates, have in common. ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-role-of-satiety-in-obesity/707375/46 "2014-12-18T02:39:20Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > **Aeschines** First and again, that the other bit that must be addressed - hyperpalatability. What happened in the modern world IMHO that has triggered a worldwide obesity problem is that the Food Industrial Complex have surrounded us with hyperpalatable foods of low satiety. To this point: I encourage everyone interested in diet and health to watch the movie [Fed Up](http://fedupmovie.com/#/page/home). It does an excellent job of explaining how and why Big Food and the sugar lobby has had such an easy time of manipulating people’s diet for profit. ---
**Author:** ![Battle\_Pope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Battle\_Pope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Battle_Pope)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-role-of-satiety-in-obesity/707375/47 "2014-12-18T02:46:28Z")
> [@chiroptera](#): > > I agree, and same here. Except make that 40 years+ since my teens! I do eat less than I used to though. If I still ate like I did in my 20s I’d be a blimp. > > To the satiety issue - an anecdote from a super-morbidly obese friend (BMI over 60) who finally had bariatric surgery done 3 1/2 weeks ago. She’s still on a very restricted diet - is now eating high-protein pureed foods. But here’s the thing - she tells me she has never in her life experienced the feeling of satiety until now. Since her stomach size has been so drastically reduced, she’s actually having a hard time taking in the recommended amount of food and water. Jumping in here: I had a vertical sleeve gastrectomy just over three months ago: At the time I was 151kg (325lbs) - BMI 49.2, currently 122kg (269lbs) BMI 40.8. My doc will be happy if I can get down to 100kg (220lbs) BMI 33.4. I reckon I can get to about 85-90kg 😃 Prior to that I had been obese most of my life (Now, I take about 90% of the responsibility - my parents get about 10%. No misbehaving thyroid or anything - I used to try to convince myself that it was all someone or something else’s fault). During that time I lost large amounts of weight twice - once in my 20’s and once in my 30’s, both times the weight slowly crept back on.) The feeling of being full after a meal is important but even more so is changing attitudes towards what you _want_ to eat vs’s what you _need_ to eat. Don’t get me wrong, while the sleeve is a very powerful tool, it’s no magic bullet. There are days when I would love to plonk down in front of the TV with a big bowl of ‘comfort food’ and go nuts - I’ve found having a sleeve and knowing how awful it feels after having even a tea-spoon more than I should acts as kind of an emergency break - it makes me pause and reconsider what I want to eat and why. My typical daily intake is: Breakfast: 1/2 cup all-bran + milk or 1 scrambled egg and a little bacon Lunch: Can of tuna or chicken (about 85 grams) Dinner: 1/2 cup of whatever I cook for the family (mostly - if it’s pasta I’ll have a 1/2 cup serve of the meat sauce or some chili-con-carne I make up and freeze ahead of time) snacks (if needed, advice from doc was to not go more than 4 hours without eating) small piece of cheese or small can of beans (again about 85 grams), or a 1/2 cup of homemade yogurt. lots of water, occasionally a cup of tea or coffee - a daily multi-vitamin Basically: [ul] [li]protein is king. Eat it first, then veg, then carbs if there is any room left. Though I’ve pretty much dropped bread/potato’s/pasta from my diet completely and haven’t missed them at all.[/li][li]measure everything[/li][li]eat slow[/li][li]stop early [/li][li]don’t ‘graze’ (probably my biggest weakness) :o[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-role-of-satiety-in-obesity/707375/48 "2014-12-18T05:24:04Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > What happened in the modern world IMHO that has triggered a worldwide obesity problem is that the Food Industrial Complex have surrounded us with hyperpalatable foods of low satiety. Some brains for a variety of reasons (genetics, changes from exposures, so on) are more prone to than others to be triggered overeat in the face of that than others but it triggers a good many people to do so. Weight gain that is established then also convinces the brain that it is supposed to be there, creating a set-point that the body defends in the face of loss. Totally! > [@](#): > > The various plan promoters are so hyped on hyping their plans, very often as the one true way, that they lose sight of what they, and nutrition patterns across the world that have been associated with low obesity rates, have in common. I agree with this as well. Just as the Food Industrial Complex wanted to sell their stuff, everyone with a proposed cure is trying to sell that. Sell sell sell! I respect Mark Sisson in that he tries to be subtle mostly succeeds, but there are issues with his approach as well (he kisses the butt of the CrossFit crowd, among other things, but that’s a whole 'nuther issue…). ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-role-of-satiety-in-obesity/707375/49 "2014-12-18T05:25:31Z")
Thanks for your interesting story and observations, **Battle Pope.** ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-role-of-satiety-in-obesity/707375/50 "2014-12-18T05:32:14Z")
> [@GrumpyBunny](#): > > All the Paleo sorts I know go on about not eating potatoes and bread and dairy. I don’t restrict them, but I also eat them in reasonable amounts. You won’t get fat from sour cream on a baked potato twice a week for chrissake or from cream in your coffee (unless you drink a pot of coffee a day). Yeah, there are plenty of intra-paleo wars. Mark Sisson calls his deal “primal.” He is not against potatoes or dairy. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-role-of-satiety-in-obesity/707375/51 "2014-12-18T14:32:37Z")
If you are serious about a paleo diet, you must: –Eat no veggies, unless you picked them wild. They are all genetically modified, nearly all of them by people making random selection and never tested. Why concentrate on wheat and potatoes –Ihe only meat you can eat are things like wild rabbits, mice, rats, insects. These were all available and consumed by our wild ancestors. –Fish and Seafood should be from near the coast or fresh water. On the other hand, cooking is at least a million years old so that is fine. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-role-of-satiety-in-obesity/707375/52 "2014-12-18T17:16:22Z")
Seriously though **Hari** there are two separate issues about so-called “Paleo” - 1. What did various Paleolithic people actually eat and what sort of nutritional balance did it result in? 2. Do the diet plans that get labelled as “Paleo” (whether or not they actually resemble what paleolithic peoples ate) result in desired outcomes? As to the first - Paleolithic peoples lived in a wide variety of environments over a long period of time. They ate lots of different sorts of food, from starchy root vegetable based diets with little meat to blubbery marine life based with few veggies, to large game animals. Most of the patterns ended up with some similar net results. Highish but not too high protein percents when possible, like 20 to 30%. Never much higher with the rest made up with fat or carbs depending on availability. Fat content was relatively high in MUFA and PUFA especially omega threes (organ meats, marrow, wild grass fed game, and lots of marine and bird meats). Most of the dietary patterns were also very high fiber. It is clear that few who are eating so-called Paleo are replicating those patterns by eating corn fed cattle (and not much organ and marrow) and [Paleo muffins](http://empoweredsustenance.com/paleo-coconut-flour-cupcakes/). 1. Nevertheless the few decent studies that have been done have shown that so-called Paleo plans can give decent outcomes. Most of the time going Paleo is changing from a hyperpalatable low satiety pattern to one that is much higher in vegetables and protein, not as hyperpalatable and higher satiety. It makes people conscious and mindful about their choices, always helpful. And provides a social support group and identity that some find helps them, an “us” against a “them” (“them” being that mythic “CW” crowd mostly). **Aeschines** , let’s open up an item for discussion: what _are_ the _common_ themes between the various dietary patterns across history and cultures that have resulted in low obesity rates and fairly good overall health outcomes? On the surface they seem very divergent … ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-role-of-satiety-in-obesity/707375/53 "2014-12-18T18:32:33Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > **Aeschines** , let’s open up an item for discussion: what _are_ the _common_ themes between the various dietary patterns across history and cultures that have resulted in low obesity rates and fairly good overall health outcomes? On the surface they seem very divergent … I don’t really know. Paleo tends to overly romanticize the good health of the past, I think. And certain things _bad_ for health, like smoking, helped keep obesity down. Another example. It’s said that the traditional Japanese diet is great for one’s health, right? Well, there are a lot of old people in Japan who look like gnomes because they really didn’t get enough nutrition to fulfill their genetic potential. And it’s universally observed that young people in Japan are much taller than Japanese people a generation or two ago. You can also find pics online of 19th century samurai who look like emaciated midgets. So there are tradeoffs. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-role-of-satiety-in-obesity/707375/54 "2014-12-18T19:40:54Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > Another example. It’s said that the traditional Japanese diet is great for one’s health, right? Well, there are a lot of old people in Japan who look like gnomes because they really didn’t get enough nutrition to fulfill their genetic potential. And it’s universally observed that young people in Japan are much taller than Japanese people a generation or two ago. I can’t speak to the nutritional value of the traditional Japanese diet, but many of the old people in Japan today did not grow up during a time when food was plentiful. There were widespread food shortages during WWII. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-role-of-satiety-in-obesity/707375/55 "2014-12-18T20:48:09Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > I can’t speak to the nutritional value of the traditional Japanese diet, but many of the old people in Japan today did not grow up during a time when food was plentiful. There were widespread food shortages during WWII. True, but I didn’t actually _hear_ a lot of people blaming WWII for that. Or rather, people would just say that recent generations had grown up eating meat, and thus were bigger and taller (which seemed to be true–I lived there 8 years btw). The meme of Japanese people being super-short doesn’t really match reality any more. There are plenty of tall people there (though yes, they are on average shorter than your average American). ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-role-of-satiety-in-obesity/707375/56 "2014-12-18T21:09:50Z")
A study of a Greek community who "[forgot to die"](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/28/magazine/the-island-where-people-forget-to-die.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0) because of both diet and social norms. Basically, a community (Ikaria Study) where most people live healthfully to extreme old age. They smoke, drink, have strong social bonds and sleep a lot. And pay no attention to studies. I think some (or much) of the dietary advice out there is misplaced and fetishistic, personally. As in, if one is very invested in a particular diet system, that is ipso facto proof that you are spending way too much time trying to figure out how to eat right, or how not to be fat. This is actually not a concern for most of the world’s population. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-role-of-satiety-in-obesity/707375/57 "2014-12-18T21:24:15Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > … And it’s universally observed that young people in Japan are much taller than Japanese people a generation or two ago. … Actually the puzzle for Japan is why[the secular increase in height](https://ideas.repec.org/p/hit/hitcei/2010-5.html)that has occurred in all of the richer countries has topped off so low in Japan. The authors’ perspective is that it _should_ still be increasing more, given the poor conditions in the decades before the 50s. In any case the fact is that there has been no increase in height there since the 80s. Being a short male I was thrilled to shop in Japan and find lots of clothes off the rack that fit me! [Life expectancy in Japan](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/05/15/world-life-expectancy/9123889/) is among the highest in the world. Might be higher if it wasn’t for the [high suicide rate](http://www.nippon.com/en/features/h00075/) (“Japan is the only G7 nation where suicide is the leading cause of death for the 15–34 age group.”) ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2014, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-role-of-satiety-in-obesity/707375/58 "2014-12-19T00:04:44Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > True, but I didn’t actually _hear_ a lot of people blaming WWII for that. Or rather, people would just say that recent generations had grown up eating meat, and thus were bigger and taller (which seemed to be true–I lived there 8 years btw). I also used to live in Japan, and unless you knew a lot of Japanese nutritionists or other health experts then I don’t think what you heard people say is relevant. In my experience the Japanese, just like Americans, believe all kinds of old wives’ tales, urban legends, and junk science about food. Again, I can’t speak to the nutritional benefits of a traditional Japanese diet vs. a more Westernized diet. I’m just saying that if you’re going to compare the heights of younger and older Japanese people then the fact that food was limited during the war years (when most of today’s elderly people were growing up) has to be taken into consideration. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2014, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-role-of-satiety-in-obesity/707375/59 "2014-12-19T02:41:57Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > I also used to live in Japan, and unless you knew a lot of Japanese nutritionists or other health experts then I don’t think what you heard people say is relevant. In my experience the Japanese, just like Americans, believe all kinds of old wives’ tales, urban legends, and junk science about food. > > Again, I can’t speak to the nutritional benefits of a traditional Japanese diet vs. a more Westernized diet. I’m just saying that if you’re going to compare the heights of younger and older Japanese people then the fact that food was limited during the war years (when most of today’s elderly people were growing up) has to be taken into consideration. I’m not disagreeing with you. I’m just saying that I didn’t hear WWII and resulting food shortages woven into the narrative. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2014, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-role-of-satiety-in-obesity/707375/60 "2014-12-19T18:28:43Z")
> [@chiroptera](#): > > A study of a Greek community who "[forgot to die"](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/28/magazine/the-island-where-people-forget-to-die.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0) because of both diet and social norms. > > Basically, a community (Ikaria Study) where most people live healthfully to extreme old age. They smoke, drink, have strong social bonds and sleep a lot. And pay no attention to studies. > > I think some (or much) of the dietary advice out there is misplaced and fetishistic, personally. As in, if one is very invested in a particular diet system, that is ipso facto proof that you are spending way too much time trying to figure out how to eat right, or how not to be fat. This is actually not a concern for most of the world’s population. The actual article though notes some specific features of that specific Greek population. > [@](#): > > … low intake of saturated fats from meat and dairy was associated with lower risk of heart disease; olive oil — especially unheated — reduced bad cholesterol and raised good cholesterol. Goat’s milk contained serotonin-boosting tryptophan and was easily digestible for older people. Some wild greens had 10 times as many antioxidants as red wine. Wine — in moderation — had been shown to be good for you if consumed as part of a Mediterranean diet, because it prompts the body to absorb more flavonoids, a type of antioxidant. And coffee, once said to stunt growth, was now associated with lower rates of diabetes, heart disease and, for some, Parkinson’s. Local sourdough bread might actually reduce a meal’s glycemic load. You could even argue that potatoes contributed heart-healthy potassium, vitamin B6 and fiber to the Ikarian diet. Another health factor at work might be the unprocessed nature of the food they consume: as Trichopoulou observed, because islanders eat greens from their gardens and fields … it may also be what they’re not eating … very little refined sugar, and their breads have been traditionally made with stone-ground wheat … sleep and sex habits might have something to do with their long life … Social structure … It’s hard to get through the day in Ikaria without walking up 20 hills. … Yes, the best outcomes are found as complete lifestyles, not a single things to or or to avoid. Our modern Western world though has a default state that takes some conscious thought and action to avoid. For many adopting “a plan” is the quickest path to a set of habits that is certainly healthier than the American default (high refined carbs, low fiber, few veggies, low satiety/hyperpalatable, little activity, socially isolated, so on). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-role-of-satiety-in-obesity/707375.md?page=2)