# The role of the working poor in our society **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 31, 2009, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-role-of-the-working-poor-in-our-society/504904 "2009-07-31T19:26:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-role-of-the-working-poor-in-our-society/504904/381 "2009-08-11T06:21:56Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > What parents do, or fail to do, affects their children, probably for life. If children grow up in the projects watching their parents recieve a bunch of freebies from the government, surrounded by crime, having not been taught anything about delayed gratification or the value of earning what they recieve, seeing that teenage pregnancy is considered the norm and baby daddies don’t have to stick around - what sort of adult do you think they are going to become? Ok. What process do you propose by which to decide the curriculum? To teach them about ‘delayed gratification’ or ‘the value of earning what they receive’? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-role-of-the-working-poor-in-our-society/504904/382 "2009-08-12T01:22:14Z")
> [@fruitbat](#): > > Let’s say I agreed with Elucidator, Der Trihs and Gonzo. I felt that we should go ahead and make the poor people well off and the rich should pay for it. It wouldn’t work. It just wouldn’t. It would take the capital from the people who are creating the jobs and wealth and move it to people without the skills to create similar wealth. This is obvious to me, and I think many other posters, but it is worth restating. > > I once believed that bringing everyone closer to the middle was a desirable goal and as I studied economics and met my wife who has a Masters in economics I came to understand why that would backfire. So there are two separate discussions. One, is it a worthwhile goal? Two, is there something we could do to make poor people all middle class without reducing everyone’s standard of living? > > I would also note that if you granted someone in 1930 the standard of living of a poor or working class person today they would laugh at your claims of suffering. I said a worker should make a living wage and get health insurance. If that is making them well off, so be it. Exploiting the low classes is bad form. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-role-of-the-working-poor-in-our-society/504904/383 "2009-08-12T02:43:12Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Ok. What process do you propose by which to decide the curriculum? > To teach them about ‘delayed gratification’ or ‘the value of earning what they receive’? Appear to be typos in here. Are you asking me how to teach these things? Or do you think they are mutually exclusive? ---
**Author:** ![AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-role-of-the-working-poor-in-our-society/504904/384 "2009-08-12T02:55:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Why do these people think they have the right to be supported by people who are trying to support themselves They don’t. BUT when you have an ecnomy where MANY people cannot afford :housing (ever read Nickle and Dimed? Not too many people could afford to easily pay rent on a minimum wage job,) health insurance ( HELLO even middle class people cannnot easily afford health insurance premiums!!) or even FOOD (during the recent recession, MANY " middle class" families were signing up for food stamps) It’s basicly an unfortunate side effect of capitalism) you need to try to make stuff more affordable for those who are at the bottom of the income heap. Hell…I can’t work right now b/c I REALLY need health insurance especially health insurance which covers hearing aids. (and private insurances generally do not cover those) I have multiple issues due to a genetic condition. Under my parent’s insurance my co-pay for a drug is $20. Under my state’s health plan it’s $2. Hearing aids (which I need to function in day to day life) aren’t covered by my parents (or generally most insurances) Yet under the state’s insurance they are FREE!!! I would love to be off of disabilty, and working at a job that pays decent wages and decent benifits. But when even a lot of my very healthy and decent wage earning friends are having difficulty with procuring decent health insuranc and trying to wrangle a decent rent…there is something messed up there! One of my friends has ADD and is going without adderall b/c she can’t afford health insurance! Ask yourself. Would YOU like to be poor? Most people bashing the system just have NO freakin clue what it’s like to actually BE POOR. Yes there are people who scam the system…there are people who scam the system at ALL levels of income!!! It’s not just poor people…and overall you’re paying poor people a very tiny amount compared to what you pay for defense or corparate welfare or whatever. And, research has indicated that most of those poor people are on it as a stopgap measure rather then on it for life. Yes, we need to somehow fix the system to prevent “Ewell” (as in the To Kill A Mockingbird) families from taking root. But denying them benifits isn’t going to do anything! ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-role-of-the-working-poor-in-our-society/504904/385 "2009-08-12T03:17:20Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > [http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/08/09/BU9S1915CD.DTL](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/08/09/BU9S1915CD.DTL) > > Offered without comment. Why don’t those who are so inclined to pay more, simply write a check to the US Treasury, then? Instead, they want to use the coercive force of government to make other people give away more of **their** property. Assholes, they are. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-role-of-the-working-poor-in-our-society/504904/386 "2009-08-12T03:57:00Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > Why don’t those who are so inclined to pay more, simply write a check to the US Treasury, then? Instead, they want to use the coercive force of government to make other people give away more of **their** property. Assholes, they are. Governments are no more coercive to citizens than employers are to employees. If an employee doesn’t like the conditions of employment, he is free to find another job. Likewise, if a citizen doesn’t like the social contract legislated by the majority, no one is forcing him to stay in this country. He can move to any libertarian paradise he wishes. Don’t like it here? Nobody’s got a gun to your head. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-role-of-the-working-poor-in-our-society/504904/387 "2009-08-12T04:02:14Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Governments are no more coercive to citizens than employers are to employees. If an employee doesn’t like the conditions of employment, he is free to find another job. Likewise, if a citizen doesn’t like the social contract legislated by the majority, no one is forcing him to stay in this country. He can move to any libertarian paradise he wishes. Don’t like it here? Nobody’s got a gun to your head. Sorry, that’s not how it works. A job is not the same as a birthright. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-role-of-the-working-poor-in-our-society/504904/388 "2009-08-12T04:11:06Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Appear to be typos in here. Are you asking me how to teach these things? Or do you think they are mutually exclusive? Fair enough. I said: > [@](#): > > Ok. What process do you propose by which to decide the curriculum? > To teach them about ‘delayed gratification’ or ‘the value of earning what they receive’? The trouble with the poor is their mishandling of the concepts of ‘delayed gratification’ and ‘the value of earning what they receive’. So. The poor ought to be taught this in the public schools. That ain’t going to happen without a curriculum. Curriculums aren’t created without processes. So: What is your process for creating the public school curriculum which teaches ‘delayed gratification’ and ‘the value of earning what they receive’? You know, in order to reduce the ranks of the poor in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-role-of-the-working-poor-in-our-society/504904/389 "2009-08-12T11:27:29Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > Sorry, that’s not how it works. A job is not the same as a birthright. No one is forcing you to exercise your birthright. If you don’t like the will of the majority, you can leave. No coercion. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-role-of-the-working-poor-in-our-society/504904/390 "2009-08-12T13:07:35Z")
I bet that’s only your philosophy when you are in the majority. I’m sure you wouldn’t have told Blacks dueing Jim Crow to just leave if they didn’t like it. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-role-of-the-working-poor-in-our-society/504904/391 "2009-08-12T13:14:39Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I bet that’s only your philosophy when you are in the majority. I’m sure you wouldn’t have told Blacks dueing Jim Crow to just leave if they didn’t like it. Jim Crow was found to be unconstitutional. Income taxes have been consistently upheld. The system works. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-role-of-the-working-poor-in-our-society/504904/392 "2009-08-12T13:53:12Z")
OK, fine. Are you telling me I won’t find one post from you compalining about Republican policies when they controlled Congress and the Presidency? You were just fine sitting back and accepting the will of the majority? ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-role-of-the-working-poor-in-our-society/504904/393 "2009-08-12T17:15:41Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > The trouble with the poor is their mishandling of the concepts of ‘delayed gratification’ and ‘the value of earning what they receive’. So. The poor ought to be taught this in the public schools. That ain’t going to happen without a curriculum. Curriculums aren’t created without processes. So: What is your process for creating the public school curriculum which teaches ‘delayed gratification’ and ‘the value of earning what they receive’? You know, in order to reduce the ranks of the poor in the future. You are seriously asking me to plan school curriculum? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-role-of-the-working-poor-in-our-society/504904/394 "2009-08-12T18:08:26Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > OK, fine. Are you telling me I won’t find one post from you compalining about Republican policies when they controlled Congress and the Presidency? You were just fine sitting back and accepting the will of the majority? That’s not what we were disageeing about. I complain more than most about GOP policies and legislation, but I never claimed they didn’t have the constitutional right to make law as they saw fit. CS is claiming that the ability to tax and spend without his permission is somehow coersive, and therefore bad. My point was that taxing and spending are settled constitutional law, so moaning about coersion now is pointless, and you might as look elsewhere because that is not going to change. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-role-of-the-working-poor-in-our-society/504904/395 "2009-08-12T19:45:41Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > No one is forcing you to exercise your birthright. If you don’t like the will of the majority, you can leave. No coercion. That’s the whole problem with populism. The majority believe they are entitled to what the elite have simply because there are more of them. Just because 50 million people believe in a bad idea does not make it a good one. All I’m saying is our country is $11 trillion dollars in debt. Who’s going to pay for all this crap? ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-role-of-the-working-poor-in-our-society/504904/396 "2009-08-13T01:22:51Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Are you at all able to discuss this subject without getting emotional and going off on tangents? I’m talking about welfare reform, not your need to make sure that babies have housing, food and medical care. It isn’t a tangent to discuss housing, food and medical care in regard to “welfare reform” (which has already been done, repeatedly) because welfare isn’t any one thing, first of all. There are cash payments, TANF, which represent only a portion of the entitlement programs that the poorest in our society benefit from. And even if there were only one, or even in the cases of families that only avail themselves of one program, when you put aid into a family’s situation, you improve the entirety of their situation. There are no Chinese Walls in family budgets. If you assist in the burden of paying high healthcare costs, they can afford better housing. If you assist them in purchasing food, they can afford high quality and higher quantities of food. When safe and accessible childcare is subsidized, parents are able to cultivate better work histories (no more missed days because the babysitter didn’t show) and advance to better positions. It all works together. > [@](#): > > What does how much my parents paid into SS have to do with anything? You’re the one suggesting that people should not be able to receive benefits because of the shortcomings of the generation(s) before them. So I’m asking again, would you be willing to not receive the benefits that you live on based upon the contributions to the system that your parents did (or did not) make? Why is your situation different? > [@](#): > > And why would you assume that any kid of mine would end up needing food stamps? Because you aren’t magical nor God nor the Queen of Earth, and therefore, like everyone else on the planet, your kid would be just as susceptible to having a series of finance-destroying events as anyone else. > [@](#): > > Back to the subject. What parents do, or fail to do, affects their children, probably for life. If children grow up in the projects watching their parents recieve a bunch of freebies from the government, surrounded by crime, having not been taught anything about delayed gratification or the value of earning what they recieve, seeing that teenage pregnancy is considered the norm and baby daddies don’t have to stick around - what sort of adult do you think they are going to become? Historically, they end up being the same sort of people their parents were for the most part. So, it doesn’t appear to be a good idea to keep treating these people as if Big Brother has to support them, does it? And here is the question you repeatedly refuse to answer: what is the alternative? If we take away these people’s benefits, what happens to them next? > [@](#): > > I had to snip your next paragraph as I am sick and tired of reading all this glurg about the helpless and innocent babies as a reason to keep throwing all this good money after bad. Yes, because you have no answer to the question: what happens to children if you take away the benefits that are keeping them housed, clothed, fed and medically cared for? It is not “emotional blackmail” to point out that children cannot care for themselves and to ask what the answer is to making sure that those who cannot do for themselves are taken care of. You’d just rather ignore the question because your philosophy of sink or swim self-reliance _cannot_ logically include children, was never designed to include children, and because you yourself do not care for children, it’s beyond your ability to form a reasonable response. > [@](#): > > I am pointing out the attitude that too many welfare abusers have. They take and take and then complain because what they are getting for free isn’t good enough. Doesn’t tend to create a desire to be responsible for themselves. You know what? This one demands a **cite**. First of all, to prove that there is a quantifiable portion of benefits recipients in this country who are “abusers” and second to show that they are perpetually complaining about the benefits they are abusing. Show some proof. > [@](#): > > Everyone. If the chronically poor don’t have some reason why they cannot work, then why aren’t they working? Do you really have to ask this in this country in this economy? Should we start with the fact that there aren’t jobs? That the job market is contracting, has been for quite some time, that we’re getting damned close to double digit unemployment and will probably hit it by October, at the latest? On a more granular level, how about poor education, a significant barrier to meaningful employment when a high school diploma isn’t enough for even low-skill employment. How about poor access to where jobs are, a particular issue for those in exurban areas or in small cities with poor public transit. Poor health, which plagues the lowest income amongst us, which can be sufficient to bar many low-skill jobs (janitorial, fast food, retail, etc.) without being sufficient to qualify for disability programs. Do you need more? > [@](#): > > If they are chronically working poor, why are they not moving up? Because low-skill jobs don’t have an “up” to move to. There is no upward mobility for laborers. There can only be one head of janitorial services or the mail room. You can’t become a retail keyholder or manager if your have poor credit scores, another perpetual albatross around the neck of the working poor. What kind of advancement do you really think is possible in low-paying positions? > [@](#): > > Instead of handing them food, housing and medical care, why do we address the _reasons_ they are chronically poor instead of treating them like morons who cannot run their own lives? False dichotomy. Hugely false dichotomy. There is nothing that says that we can’t assist people by making sure that their basic needs are met _and_ deal with the reasns why they’re chronically poor at the same time. I can promise you that no one is perpetually stuck in crap jobs and living in bad neighborhoods because they love food stamps too much to apply themselves. > [@](#): > > You know that? You know that most unpaid support is not being paid by fathers that are perfectly capable of paying, they just don’t feel like it? I do not. However, looking at it logically, considering that courts determine child support amounts based upon a percentage of the income of the noncustodial parent (not necessarily the father, don’t be biased) and the emphasis child support enforcement agencies place on _locating_ the non-custodial parent and/or their source of income, it seems that a significant amount of the arrearage must be put down to those who could pay at least a portion of their monthly obligation, but choose to pay nothing at all, and either hide themselves or their work from the custodial parent. (Otherwise, location would not be such a high agency emphasis, enforcement would be.) So you tell me. > [@](#): > > Check your facts - teen pregnancy is on the way back up again. Interesting that it happens when we have movies and TV shows based around how wonderful/easy/funny/anything but awful it is when a teen gets pregnant and decides to keep the baby. Okay, here we go. Name three such movies or TV shows. Go back to 1999, even. Name three. That’s all I ask. And contemplate this while you’re looking: the role of “abstinence-only” or “abstinence plus” sex “education” in public schools in the newly reversed teenage pregnancy rates. Further supplemental teaching moment: what percentage of teen mothers avail themselves of any entitlement program other than Medicaid? (Specifically exempted because of the number of insurers that do not cover obstetric care.) What percentage of single mothers overall avail themselves of such programs? > [@](#): > > Where is that protection you speak of when that happens? Why are so many teen mothers even given the choice to keep their babies? Why are you allowed to keep your teeth? > [@](#): > > In one of the third generation welfare families I know, it is because it is essentially normal for their girls to have their first baby at 15 or so and it is expected they will keep it. So, we have children raising babies, in poverty. Why can’t the government get the church out of the state and allow reproduction AND it’s long term results taught in schools? That’s the first sensible question you’ve asked. Even if it is taught, what effect does that have on the children who would still be born, if there are no benefits available to them as you repeatedly suggest should be the case? > [@](#): > > So, you would rather ignore all these baby daddies that are not supporting the children they sire, and instead force the rest of us to pay child support? You have no interest in why that $70 billion you speak of isn’t being paid by the men who are supposed to be responsible? First of all, you clearly don’t know what the phrase “baby daddy” means and using it makes you look like a fool, so stop. Secondly, where did I say I’m not interested in it? As far as I’m concerned, anyone who owes child support (regardless of gender) should face confiscation and auction of their personal goods to discharge the standing debt (as occurs for IRS debts), mandated direct debit to ensure prompt payment and the threat of work-release incarceration/house arrest if another arrearage should occur. [quote[Oh good lord - that is the birth rate for everyone! You know, the responsible folks as well as the irresponsible?[/quote] So you’re contending that the existence of the safety net has led to births that wouldn’t otherwise occur. Cite that the birth rate for the lowest income citizens has stabilized or trended upward in converse to the overall rate **because** of the existence of entitlement programs. It’s your contention, prove it. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-role-of-the-working-poor-in-our-society/504904/397 "2009-08-13T02:32:00Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > You are seriously asking me to plan school curriculum? Yes. You say that the problem with the poor is their mis-understanding or non-use of concepts of ‘delayed gratification’ and ‘the value of earning what they receive’. How else are we going to get the message out? Maybe you have some other solution, like e-mail or TV shows. I’m ready to hear it. Your solution I mean. But let’s step back. I don’t think I need to make any other point in this thread other than that the basis of positions like yours, Rand’s and msmith’s is a supremacist attitude of condescending contempt for the poor. If you are interested in solutions for the problem of poverty besides “fuck 'em”, then I’m wrong. Doesn’t look like I’m getting a lot of traction drawing solutions out of you though. ---
**Author:** ![AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-role-of-the-working-poor-in-our-society/504904/398 "2009-08-13T02:45:55Z")
> [@](#): > > You’d just rather ignore the question because your philosophy of sink or swim self-reliance cannot logically include children, was never designed to include children Keep them damn minrorities down boys…Survival of the fittest you know! ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-role-of-the-working-poor-in-our-society/504904/399 "2009-08-13T02:54:52Z")
Curlcoat, you yourself gave me the idea. In #219, you replied to this: > [@](#): > > Ultimately the question is how should society treat those people whose skills and abilities have a market value below what is necessary for a sustainable lifestyle (and this incudes the infirmed or elderly and others who can no longer work). with this > [@](#): > > For me, the answer to the quesiton is to train those people skills that will give them the ability to make a good wage, as well as teaching them things like gratification delay, budgeting, proper child care and whatever else is holding them back. I am a firm believer in the teach a man to fish thing, rather than what we are doing now, which is just handing people fish all the time. Ok. But how? ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-role-of-the-working-poor-in-our-society/504904/400 "2009-08-13T03:03:34Z")
I regret that I never responded directly to this: > [@msmith537](#): > > I don’t follow. What does being bigger and stronger than average have the first thing to do with finance, business or accounting? > > If the market says that is what their contribution is worth, that is what it is worth. It has everything to do with finance, business and accounting. I was lucky to be born big and strong, and so I can focus more volume of contribution to society per minute than a lot of other, less lucky folks. It hinges on how you do it of course. I seem to have figured it out. Anyway, a big part of my success is dumb luck. I don’t think it follows that our nation ought to take a supremacist attitude of condescending contempt for the poor. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-role-of-the-working-poor-in-our-society/504904.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-role-of-the-working-poor-in-our-society/504904.md?page=21)