# The Romney Tapes - thoughts as to how they'll affect the election? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 17, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-romney-tapes-thoughts-as-to-how-theyll-affect-the-election/635007 "2012-09-17T21:14:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-romney-tapes-thoughts-as-to-how-theyll-affect-the-election/635007/361 "2012-09-20T01:55:43Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Thank you. When I wasn’t able to find it on Urban Dictionary, I thought to myself; _“Man, that must be NA-A-A-S-STY.”_ And now you find it’s just horseshit with a pedigree. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-romney-tapes-thoughts-as-to-how-theyll-affect-the-election/635007/362 "2012-09-20T02:02:35Z")
That horse eats better than you do. Show some respect! ---
**Author:** ![Untoward\_Parable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Untoward\_Parable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Untoward_Parable)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-romney-tapes-thoughts-as-to-how-theyll-affect-the-election/635007/363 "2012-09-20T02:03:46Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Nuh-uh! > > Luckily, I didn’t say that. I said that within those Republican leaning Southern states, you would find a greater percentage of Democrats on food stamps than you would Republicans, in which case the state level voting data wouldn’t adequately reflect who is actually on food stamps (as the way a state votes is not necessarily the same way that any given group within that state votes). Again, it’s not a hard concept, though in general I’ve found on this board liberals don’t understand this as evidenced by a few threads on education on who pays more taxes. Anyway, the fact that we’re even arguing this is a bit odd, as you could simply look at the demographics of food stamp recipients and cross that with the voting tendencies of said groups. But, apparently, that would be far too hard or something :rolleyes: > > So before we go any further-- and just for shits and giggles-- what do you think the demogrphic breakdown is of the people who receive foodstamps by, say, race and income is on a state level basis? > > (Hint: You could always check [here](http://www.fns.usda.gov/ora/MENU/Published/snap/FILES/Participation/2010Characteristics.pdf).) > > You either didn’t read what I posted or you have a hard time comprehending it is what I said. I’m going to go with the latter. whites receive nearly 2/3 of all welfare benefits administered by the federal government. (and vote mostly republican, maybe because they’re stupid? Or indoctrinated?) ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-romney-tapes-thoughts-as-to-how-theyll-affect-the-election/635007/364 "2012-09-20T02:22:34Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > No, it’s not. That’s nowhere even close to what I said Again, here are your exact words: “A more likely reason that southern states have some of the highest food stamp usage in the country is more than likely because of Democrat voting minorities who live in these states.” I admit it’s a bit confusing when you use “more than likely” twice, but you are saying here that the “reason that southern states have some of the highest food stamp usage in the country” is “more than likely because” of “Democrat voting monorities who live in these states.” These are your words, not mine. You ascribe the fact of Southern states using many food stamps to them HAVING Democratic-voting minorities. There it is, in plain English. The order in which you place words matters. And then, incredibly, after denying it, YOU SAY IT AGAIN: > [@](#): > > What I said is that those Southern states tend to have a higher percentage of the population of food stamps because of large minority population who vote Democrat. Again; you are ascribing the use of food stamps to the existence of people who vote Democratic, as I accused you of doing. It’s insane anyone would believe this. How does voting Democratic make someone need food stamps? You then go on to make a logically different argument; that it happens that food stamp usage and voting Democratic are coincidental traits of a common set of people (being Black.) That’s not the same thing as your previous claim - quoted twice above - that food stamp usage is the result of having people who vote Democratic. Don’t you see the difference? ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-romney-tapes-thoughts-as-to-how-theyll-affect-the-election/635007/365 "2012-09-20T02:28:36Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > [Rafalca](http://www.dressage-news.com/?p=16750), actually. I stand corrected. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-romney-tapes-thoughts-as-to-how-theyll-affect-the-election/635007/366 "2012-09-20T03:34:51Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > These are your words, not mine. You ascribe the fact of Southern states using many food stamps to them HAVING Democratic-voting minorities. There it is, in plain English. The order in which you place words matters. Initial statement: > [@Originally Posted by joebuck20](#): > > Probably, seeing as the Republican strongholds in the South have some of the highest food stamp usage in the country. My response: > [@Me](#): > > A more likely reason that southern states have some of the highest food stamp usage in the country is more than likely because of Democrat voting minorities who live in these states. Approximately half of Blacks live in the South and they are more likely to be on foodstamps than their White counterparts relative to percentage of the population they constitute. > [@](#): > > You then go on to make a logically different argument; that it happens that food stamp usage and voting Democratic are coincidental traits of a common set of people (being Black.) **That’s not the same thing as your previous claim - quoted twice above - that food stamp usage is the result of having people who vote Democratic**. Don’t you see the difference? The fact is that I’ve made the exact same argument from beginning to end. Because you didn’t, and apparently still don’t, understand it is really no skin off my nose. The bolded, especially, is not even close to what I said as I would have had to say that “no Republicans use food stamps”, as that’s the only way to arrive at the conclusion you arrived at above. It’s rather amazing how you get your statement from mine. That’s not just a stretch, it’s an Earth-to-the-moon-and-back again stretch. Dare I say it’s a straw man? And yet, in all of this, I’m still waiting for you-- or anyone, since about five people tried to jump on what I said-- refute what I typed. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-romney-tapes-thoughts-as-to-how-theyll-affect-the-election/635007/367 "2012-09-20T04:02:19Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > The fact is that I’ve made the exact same argument from beginning to end. [QUOTE=OMG a Black Conservative] What I said is that those Southern states tend to have a higher percentage of the population of food stamps \*\*because of large minority population who vote Democrat. \*\* [/QUOTE] Emphasis mine. There it is, plain as day; you’re saying southern states have high usage of food stamps because of the minority that votes Democrat. I didn’t type it, you did. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-romney-tapes-thoughts-as-to-how-theyll-affect-the-election/635007/368 "2012-09-20T04:16:29Z")
I, for instance, am still awaiting clarification of just what you meant by ""You either didn’t read what I posted or you have a hard time comprehending it is what I said. " I stand accused of not comprehending “it is what I said” is the best I can do with that… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-romney-tapes-thoughts-as-to-how-theyll-affect-the-election/635007/369 "2012-09-20T05:21:08Z")
Is he talking about “minorities” in the more or less “racial” sense, or that Democrats of any complexion are in the minority in the South? Or does he mean they are the same people? And if they are the minority politically, then those states are run by Republicans, yes? Who are all about promoting the economy, and jobs jobs jobs, so howcum their people need food assistance if they are doing such a swell job? You know who loves food stamps more than welfare queens? Monsanto. Cargill. General Foods. Archer Daniels Midland. Their Republican stockholders hear about an expansion of the program, they smile inside. They rail against the socialism, but they cash the checks. ---
**Author:** ![Untoward\_Parable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Untoward\_Parable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Untoward_Parable)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-romney-tapes-thoughts-as-to-how-theyll-affect-the-election/635007/370 "2012-09-20T05:33:27Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > If you go through life insisting upon wearing ear plugs and eye plugs, it ought to be mandatory that you also use a mouth plug. Sounds sound. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-romney-tapes-thoughts-as-to-how-theyll-affect-the-election/635007/371 "2012-09-20T05:37:27Z")
You know where to put the cork. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-romney-tapes-thoughts-as-to-how-theyll-affect-the-election/635007/372 "2012-09-20T05:57:24Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Emphasis mine. There it is, plain as day; you’re saying southern states have high usage of food stamps because of the minority that votes Democrat. I didn’t type it, you did. Here, let me simplify this for you. Tell me the difference between these two statements: > [@Me](#): > > A more likely reason that southern states have some of the highest food stamp usage in the country is more than likely because of Democrat voting minorities who live in these states. Approximately half of Blacks live in the South and they are more likely to be on foodstamps than their White counterparts relative to percentage of the population they constitute. > [@You](#): > > You are saying here that food stamp usage is higher in some states because Democrats live in those states, as if voting Democratic somehow makes someone hungrier or more likely to need food stamps. Now look at what I said versus what you said, and tell me the difference. The fact that you believe your statement of what I purportedly said is even close to what I actually said is astonishing. How you can engage in a _ **BLATANT** _ straw man and be oblivious to the fact that it’s a _ **BLATANT** _ straw man? ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-romney-tapes-thoughts-as-to-how-theyll-affect-the-election/635007/373 "2012-09-20T06:03:51Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > I stand accused of not comprehending “it is what I said” is the best I can do with that… As I said, I didn’t need to click on the link because I was almost certain the poster was engaging in an ecological fallacy, aimed at trying to show Republicans being hypocrites because the states which tend to have a larger percentage of the population receiving food stamps were in the South. And lo and behold… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-romney-tapes-thoughts-as-to-how-theyll-affect-the-election/635007/374 "2012-09-20T07:05:26Z")
An “ecological fallacy”? That’s too many for me, I fold. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-romney-tapes-thoughts-as-to-how-theyll-affect-the-election/635007/375 "2012-09-20T12:42:37Z")
Romney’s tape provided prompted a really excellent[response by Jon Stewart](http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/wed-september-19-2012-pink) last night. With math & everything! ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-romney-tapes-thoughts-as-to-how-theyll-affect-the-election/635007/376 "2012-09-20T13:30:06Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > They are no longer free to make their own decisions, their fates are tied to one party. Cynically advancing their class with flagrant disregard for Utilitarianism? What does the following statement look like to you? > [@Romney](#): > > They’ll probably be looking at what the polls are saying. If it looks like I’m going to win, the markets will be happy. If it looks like the president’s going to win, the markets should not be terribly happy. It depends of course which markets you’re talking about, which types of commodities and so forth, but my own view is that if we win on November 6th, there will be a great deal of optimism about the future of this country. We’ll see capital come back and we’ll see—without actually doing anything—we’ll actually get a boost in the economy. If the president gets re-elected, I don’t know what will happen. I can– I can never predict what the markets will do. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-romney-tapes-thoughts-as-to-how-theyll-affect-the-election/635007/377 "2012-09-20T13:38:54Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > In summary, the fact that Southern states may have more people on food stamps is mostly a consequence of the fact that they have higher minority populations, especially Blacks. Minorities, mind you, who tend to vote Democrat. Do these “minorities” suffer a mental handicap that renders them incapable of finding the “i” and “c” keys on their computers? Just curious… ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-romney-tapes-thoughts-as-to-how-theyll-affect-the-election/635007/378 "2012-09-20T13:46:29Z")
[QUOTE=Romney] They’ll probably be looking at what the polls are saying. If it looks like I’m going to win, the markets will be happy. If it looks like the president’s going to win, the markets should not be terribly happy. It depends of course which markets you’re talking about, which types of commodities and so forth, but my own view is that if we win on November 6th, there will be a great deal of optimism about the future of this country. We’ll see capital come back and we’ll see—without actually doing anything—we’ll actually get a boost in the economy. If the president gets re-elected, I don’t know what will happen. I can– I can never predict what the markets will do. [/QUOTE] You know, I used to concede that Romney was a smart fellow: good education, Harvard Business, Harvard Law, successful at business–how dumb could he possibly be? I’m starting to rethink my original position. He can confidently predict what the markets will do, but he can never predict what the markets will do. Whaaaa? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-romney-tapes-thoughts-as-to-how-theyll-affect-the-election/635007/379 "2012-09-20T14:08:54Z")
Note that the DJIA is 95-97% of its all-time high set in October 2007 - so it’s not as if the “market” is sitting around, waiting for a Romney victory. The DJIA has doubled since it’s GR low point in March, 2009… which indicates that Obama’s policies have largely been approved by “the market”. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-romney-tapes-thoughts-as-to-how-theyll-affect-the-election/635007/380 "2012-09-20T14:13:12Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > As I said, I didn’t need to click on the link because I was almost certain the poster was engaging in an ecological fallacy, aimed at trying to show Republicans being hypocrites because the states which tend to have a larger percentage of the population receiving food stamps were in the South. And lo and behold… The “it” = “the link”! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-romney-tapes-thoughts-as-to-how-theyll-affect-the-election/635007.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-romney-tapes-thoughts-as-to-how-theyll-affect-the-election/635007.md?page=20)