# The Romney Tapes - thoughts as to how they'll affect the election? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 17, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-romney-tapes-thoughts-as-to-how-theyll-affect-the-election/635007 "2012-09-17T21:14:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-romney-tapes-thoughts-as-to-how-theyll-affect-the-election/635007/81 "2012-09-18T03:12:17Z")
My Facebook: I’m in the Obama 47%. Apparently I’m a dependent moocher. Let’s see, I did use those entitlement Pell grants to get to go to college, subsidized student loans, didn’t have to pay income tax while in grad school. I only support Obama because I don’t think people should take responsibility for their lives? Sorry if I find his rhetoric personally offensive. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-romney-tapes-thoughts-as-to-how-theyll-affect-the-election/635007/82 "2012-09-18T03:13:06Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Wow, really? I felt certain he’d walk them back, or at least qualify them into oblivion. The Obama campaign is going to spend the next week going nuts quoting Romney saying the elderly and bottom third of workers are dependent on handouts. Or how his job is not to worry about them. Here’s part of Romney’s response this evening: > [@](#): > > “This is a campaign, fundamentally, about how to help the middle-class in America, and how to help people in poverty get into the middle class,” To rephrase, using Romney’s own definitions… > [@](#): > > “This is a campaign, fundamentally, about how to help people who make $200,000 to $250,000 in yearly income in America, and how to help people who make less than $200,000 a year get into the middle class,” ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-romney-tapes-thoughts-as-to-how-theyll-affect-the-election/635007/83 "2012-09-18T03:16:09Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Of course it’s the top story at the Times. They want to beat Romney. The fact that it’s exactly the type of story that sells newspapers and generates webpage hits of course had nothing to do with it. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-romney-tapes-thoughts-as-to-how-theyll-affect-the-election/635007/84 "2012-09-18T03:23:45Z")
As of this moment, the Romney tapes are above the fold, if not THE headline story, on the websites of CNN, MSNBC, ABC News, CBS News, BBC News, the LA Times, the NY Times, the Washington Post, the Chicago Sun-Times, NPR, HuffPo, and even the Drudge Report. Fox News has a tiny text link to the story, under the photo, beneath a picture of Joe Biden. No further comment. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-romney-tapes-thoughts-as-to-how-theyll-affect-the-election/635007/85 "2012-09-18T03:24:54Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > This reminds me of the “bitter clingers” comment. Same exact situation. And we all see how it destroyed the candidate in question. Wonder what ever happened to that guy? > > And that statement was compassionate? Only in the most condescending way possible. “Aw, those poor stupid hicks. I care so much about those morons.” Context. That was a statement during the 2008 primaries to wit, Hillary Clinton jumped all over Obama and beat him up good. He apologized to those who were offended. Fast Forward to 2012 During the Presidential campaign Romney is dismissing half the country as moochers on the government teet. Now he’s standing by his statements. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-romney-tapes-thoughts-as-to-how-theyll-affect-the-election/635007/86 "2012-09-18T03:28:59Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > He modified the comments to an extent but he can’t entirely take them back. I don’t see where he modified them. He said they were “unelegantly stated”, but he seems to be standing by their meaning. > [@](#): > > It’s the same as the Libya deal: what he said looks terrible but he feels he can’t be seen apologizing because that would hurt him more with his base. Romney’s entire foreign policy schtick is based on his whole “never apologize, never surrender” thing. So he was pretty much stuck with whatever he’d said about Libya. I don’t think the same is true about domestic issues. Apologizing might not be in the cards, but I think he can walk stuff back or qualify it so much it loses its original meaning. I still think that’s what he’ll end up doing in the next day or two. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-romney-tapes-thoughts-as-to-how-theyll-affect-the-election/635007/87 "2012-09-18T03:29:05Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > My Facebook: > > I’m in the Obama 47%. Apparently I’m a dependent moocher. > Let’s see, I did use those entitlement Pell grants to get to go to college, subsidized student loans, didn’t have to pay income tax while in grad school. I only support Obama because I don’t think people should take responsibility for their lives? Sorry if I find his rhetoric personally offensive. I would post something like that to Facebook, except I have a rule about not posting anything political to Facebook. It really does piss me off. I vote Democrat. I pay for my own health insurance. I have been a self-employed small business owner for most my adult working life. I’ve paid for the past few years over 30% of my adjusted gross income in federal taxes (total tax due divided by AGI on the 1040; I’m not cheating by counting sales taxes and state taxes and all that) and I do not make a six figure or more salary. I’ve never collected unemployment, no food stamps, no government assistance that I could think of–no student loans, grants, anything. I built my business with no loans–just the money I’ve made and saved up while working. And yet _I’m_ characterized as part of this 47% of Americans who are dependent moochers. You know what? Fuck this guy. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-romney-tapes-thoughts-as-to-how-theyll-affect-the-election/635007/88 "2012-09-18T03:39:45Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > As of this moment, the Romney tapes are above the fold, if not THE headline story, on the websites of CNN, MSNBC, ABC News, CBS News, BBC News, the LA Times, the NY Times, the Washington Post, the Chicago Sun-Times, NPR, HuffPo, and even the Drudge Report. > > Fox News has a tiny text link to the story, under the photo, beneath a picture of Joe Biden. > > No further comment. I guess the Romney campaign must be thrilled that nobody’s talking about the morning’s [big Politico story](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0912/81280.html?hp=r1) where all his advisers seem to be working on their finger-pointing for the inevitable loss anymore. When you’re down in all the polls and start having news days like this, it always seems like the bad news just keeps piling up. I’m calling it “stick a fork in him, he’s done” time. Apparently I’m a little quicker to call it this time around [than I was last time](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=486836&highlight=forked). ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-romney-tapes-thoughts-as-to-how-theyll-affect-the-election/635007/89 "2012-09-18T03:43:04Z")
I love Romney’s [defense](http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2012/09/17/romney-says-comments-not-elegantly-stated/) of his comments: > [@](#): > > “It’s not elegantly stated, let me put it that way,” Mr. Romney said. “I’m speaking off the cuff in response to a question.” Yes, off the cuff, instead of a carefully planned speech, probably written by someone else, in which each statement can be analyzed for its rhetorical effectiveness or possible detriment to his campaign. In other words, what he really believes. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-romney-tapes-thoughts-as-to-how-theyll-affect-the-election/635007/90 "2012-09-18T03:51:38Z")
This is truly the break the McCain campaign has been waiting for! ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-romney-tapes-thoughts-as-to-how-theyll-affect-the-election/635007/91 "2012-09-18T04:21:02Z")
> [@waterj2](#): > > I’m calling it “stick a fork in him, he’s done” time. Yep. I said he was gonna step on his dick in the debates, and here he has really stepped _hard_ on his dick and ground it under his heel, before debate one. He will have a helluva time trying to spin this 47% statement, and he will not succeed. Nor should he. Anyone who feels that way about nearly half of the voters shouldn’t even be _running_ for president, let alone qualified to serve. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-romney-tapes-thoughts-as-to-how-theyll-affect-the-election/635007/92 "2012-09-18T04:21:09Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > This is truly the break the McCain campaign has been waiting for! You know you’ve been reading FiveThirtyEight too long when… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-romney-tapes-thoughts-as-to-how-theyll-affect-the-election/635007/93 "2012-09-18T04:25:31Z")
I just donated $47 to the Obama campaign, on top of my $99 donation at the end of the convention… ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-romney-tapes-thoughts-as-to-how-theyll-affect-the-election/635007/94 "2012-09-18T04:30:33Z")
I don’t know that it’ll do much. A large portion of the 47% who don’t pay that one particular tax probably happily agree with Romney, decrying the existence of such moochers while confusing the Social Security and Medicare taxes deducted every week with federal income taxes. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-romney-tapes-thoughts-as-to-how-theyll-affect-the-election/635007/95 "2012-09-18T04:45:26Z")
Well, they probably get income taxes deducted as well, but receive them back when they file. So they think they’re paying taxes, but really aren’t. The other large portion of the 47% are elderly people on medicare/social security, who, in the aggregate, are big Romney supporters. I’m sure a number of them are pissed to hear their candidate call them “Takers” and “entitlement” whores. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-romney-tapes-thoughts-as-to-how-theyll-affect-the-election/635007/96 "2012-09-18T04:58:35Z")
[According to the the census bureau](http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.), 23.7% of the country is under 18. I’d guess most people less 17 don’t pay Fed taxes because serving hotdogs & fries during the summer isn’t all that lucrative. None of them are Romney or Obama voters, because they can’t vote, being minors. Minus that percentage, we’re down to only 23.3% of the nation possibly being mooching, food stamp-loving Obama supporters. Unless Romney actually meant that children are mooching, food stamp-loving parasites. But I’d guess he won’t clarify his remarks to that extent so we may never know. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-romney-tapes-thoughts-as-to-how-theyll-affect-the-election/635007/97 "2012-09-18T05:00:24Z")
Romney says that 47% of all voters will never go for him – those are the ones who pay no income tax and that he will “never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives.” Wow. Some of those people pay a higher share of their income in _total_ taxes than Mitt Romney does himself- but he thinks they are moochers. For years Republicans have given budgetarily small tax cuts to the middle class and bigger ones to the upper eschalons - if 47% pay no income tax (though they pay gas, sales, payroll and medicare tax) that’s partly a direct result of Republican policies. Now they are playing bait and switch – to pay for more tax cuts for the rich. This sounds unfair, but I can’t think of a more accurate way of putting it. [Brad DeLong](http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2012/09/greg-sargent-watches-the-romney-campaign-relaunch-ill-never-convince-obama-voters-to-take-responsibility-for-their-lives.html): Note that if: ``` You make $60,000 You are married with three minor children You tithe 10% to the CJCLDS You pay $3000 in state and property taxes You spend $1000 in job expenses and tax preparation fees You have $5000 in child care expenses ``` Then, according to Romney, you are a moocher. What does Mitt have to offer these Moochers? Nothing: they can buzz off. What did Obama have to offer those he condescended to 4 years ago? Quite a bit actually: over the past 4 years he has cut the ranks of the uninsured and extended payroll tax cuts, both in teeth of Republican opposition. One candidate is a President of all Americans, the other writes half of us off. Bruce Bartlett on who doesn’t pay income tax: [Who Doesn't Pay Federal Income Taxes (Legally) - The New York Times](http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/28/who-doesnt-pay-federal-income-taxes-legally/) It is not only the poor who are exempt from federal income taxation; substantial numbers of households in the middle class are also exempted. And: Surprisingly, a not insignificant number of those who are clearly well off are also among the “lucky duckies.” There are 78,000 tax filers with incomes of $211,000 to $533,000 who will pay no federal income taxes this year. Even more amazingly, there are 24,000 households with incomes of $533,000 to $2.2 million with zero income tax liability, and 3,000 tax filers with incomes above $2.2 million with the same federal income tax liability as most of those with incomes barely above the poverty level. It is not because of the earned-income tax credit or the child credit that the ultra-wealthy are paying no federal income taxes. Somehow, I doubt whether Romney was talking about this latter group. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-romney-tapes-thoughts-as-to-how-theyll-affect-the-election/635007/98 "2012-09-18T05:01:46Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Well, they probably get income taxes deducted as well, but receive them back when they file. So they think they’re paying taxes, but really aren’t. > > The other large portion of the 47% are elderly people on medicare/social security, who, in the aggregate, are big Romney supporters. I’m sure a number of them are pissed to hear their candidate call them “Takers” and “entitlement” whores. Yep, because if government would just stay strictly away from their Medicare everything will be just fine. Nope, no socialized medicine here. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-romney-tapes-thoughts-as-to-how-theyll-affect-the-election/635007/99 "2012-09-18T05:04:35Z")
I don’t really think this, or most things that happen, affects the odds either way. As far as I’m concerned the Democrats will always vote Democrat and the Republicans will always vote Republican and all that matters is to what extent each candidate can get his side riled up and willing to actually drag themselves out of their homes and to the polling stations in the weeks leading up to the election. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-romney-tapes-thoughts-as-to-how-theyll-affect-the-election/635007/100 "2012-09-18T05:05:11Z")
> [@Linden\_Arden](#): > > The vast majority of entitlements (by dollar amount) are provided to the elderly. > > Social Security is over $700 billion vs $75 billion for food stamps (the largest for the elderly and non age specific). > > Medicare is strictly for the elderly and Medicaid is mostly for the elderly. > > If we are a “welfare society” the elderly are the primary beneficiaries. The elderly vote GOP. > > NTTIAWWT. That’s great, but it doesn’t have anything to do with my _actual_ post which, ugh, is pretty irrefutable 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-romney-tapes-thoughts-as-to-how-theyll-affect-the-election/635007.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-romney-tapes-thoughts-as-to-how-theyll-affect-the-election/635007.md?page=6)