# "The Room" (2003, Tommy Wiseau) is actually a good movie. A great one, in fact. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 29, 2017, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-room-2003-tommy-wiseau-is-actually-a-good-movie-a-great-one-in-fact/803009 "2017-11-29T03:54:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-room-2003-tommy-wiseau-is-actually-a-good-movie-a-great-one-in-fact/803009/1 "2017-11-29T03:54:37Z")
No one seems to get this movie. Not really. People don’t go out of their way to see a movie _so much_ if it’s merely terrible or “so bad it’s good.” Sure, _The Room_ is so bad it’s good. But at the same time, it’s also just plain good. Some of the “so bad it’s good” qualities are also good, but the movie has some simply good qualities in addition to these. Here’s what I think works: • The movie is totally off-template. Both in its badness and its goodness, it is completely fresh and unexpected. This gives everything in it a kind of multiplier effect. Plus, this off-template quality is a good quality in its own right. “Wow, we’re watching something different for a change.” • Lisa is hot, mmkay?! (Not joking. And she actually is a good actress for the part.) • Most of the acting isn’t actually “bad.” A lot is good. And a lot of Wiseau’s acting is excellent, albeit strange. You are seeing a man who is really feeling something. Again, not on template. Totally his own way. • The movie does a better job than most (all?) at looking how an unloving, user woman can take down a man (or how an unwise man can let such a woman get to him). Lisa is totally believable and realistic. She’s not a hateful caricature, either. One can also see her side of things. • Johnny’s story of failed ambition is also quite realistic and believable. • It works below the surface in an ingenious way. Much has been made about the game of tuxedo football, but it _is_ a resonant image that plays with our notions of masculinity and American-ness and “winning” in an interesting way. It’s not _trying_ to be some big symbol or anything–it just works. And that’s pretty much how all or at least most of the details in the movie work. They just fit together to make this picture that works as a whole. It’s engaging and feels meaningful. • It’s surreal. Not all “so bad it’s good” movies work in the same way. _The Room_ is consistently just plain “out there,” and even though the details are risible, they’re still cool and memorable. Like the pug on the counter in the flower store. A simple thing, not all that crazy, but you will remember Johnny petting that dog for the rest of your life while instantly forgetting big, effort-laden, and expensive setpieces in the latest superhero shitter. So there you have it. _The Room_, despite or indeed partly because of its manifest absurdity, just works. And it works on a deep level that affects people emotionally–even if they think they’re just laughing. (The above is all sincere. No joking.) Thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![Junior\_Spaceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Junior\_Spaceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Junior_Spaceman)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-room-2003-tommy-wiseau-is-actually-a-good-movie-a-great-one-in-fact/803009/2 "2017-11-29T04:13:18Z")
I haven’t seen the film, so can’t comment directly, but there was a podcast this week talking about how it should be considered as a worthwhile movie in the history of film, where actor/podcaster/writer Paul Scheer goes into even more detail about it. Worth a listen, anyway. [The Room (w/ Paul Scheer) - Earwolf](http://www.earwolf.com/episode/the-room-w-paul-scheer/) ---
**Author:** ![Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uosdwis_R.Dewoh)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-room-2003-tommy-wiseau-is-actually-a-good-movie-a-great-one-in-fact/803009/3 "2017-11-29T05:17:12Z")
So-bad-it’s-good movies can only happen when they’re done with true sincerity. That’s why intentionally bad films like Sharknando don’t work. A comedian couldn’t do the “[Oh, hai Mark](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLhoDB-ORLQ)” scene without smirking. The audience can easily see through it. The Room takes sincerity to a whole new level. Most So-bad-it’s-good (Birdemic, Suburban Sasquatch, Plan 9 from outer space, Manos, etc) are genre films because audiences are more forgiving of them. In the end the filmmakers don’t have the confidence to believe they can make non-schlock. Not Tommy Wiseau though. He’s gonna make the drama to end all dramas. The audience is going to feel for Johnny like they’ve never felt for a character ever before, goddammit. Too bad Wiseau is an alien from another planet and his first contact with humans was a day before filming. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-room-2003-tommy-wiseau-is-actually-a-good-movie-a-great-one-in-fact/803009/4 "2017-11-29T05:33:30Z")
I don’t know what good acting you see. Wisseau’s acting is horrible. I can’t recall a single part where he believably feels an emotion. That scene at the end is hilarious because it’s like he’s some alien who has been told what people do when they are angry. And the ridiculous way he goes to the gun! The rest of the acting is about soap opera quality, with people monologuing their lines. I don’t think anyone is upset about the mom having cancer, and I can’t buy Lisa breaking up with Johnny for a second. Okay, so maybe Danny is legitimately creepy with wanting to be with Lisa and Johnny when they have sex, but I’m not sure that’s even supposed to be creepy. I also don’t agree about the story. It doesn’t feel real at all. That’s what makes it funny. It only works if you see it as some naive guy’s interpretation of what happens, through Johnny as an unreliable narrator. Hell, barring the suicide part (which is clear suicide revenge fantasy), I’m pretty sure it’s autobiographical. She’s not an unloving abusing woman. She acts too unbelievably to be that. She’s someone who Wisseau didn’t understand why she left him. She’s a caricature. The failed ambition is probably the best part, but it’s all tell, not show. You never once see Johnny trying anything related to his work. It’s just something he tells us he does. It’s just there to add to Johnny’s pain. Having two bad things, in theory, would make the suicide more believable. Too bad it’s just so funny. “So bad it’s good” ultimately means something more like “so bad, it’s funny.” And that’s what this is. All that stuff I mentioned is bad to the point of absurdity. As for the football thing, I honestly suspect it really happened to Wisseau. I do still wonder who the Lisa was who cheated on him. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-room-2003-tommy-wiseau-is-actually-a-good-movie-a-great-one-in-fact/803009/5 "2017-11-29T14:46:15Z")
I’ve noticed that people who want to prove what better taste than everybody else they have like to tear down things that are very popular and elevate pieces of shit to genius levels. Not saying the OP is this type of person but. . . this movie is a laughable piece of shit. Not saying Aeschines is this type of person, however. Tell me Aeshines, what do you think of Titanic or Avatar? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-room-2003-tommy-wiseau-is-actually-a-good-movie-a-great-one-in-fact/803009/6 "2017-11-29T16:14:45Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I don’t know what good acting you see. Yup, you can’t polish a turd. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-room-2003-tommy-wiseau-is-actually-a-good-movie-a-great-one-in-fact/803009/7 "2017-11-29T17:07:22Z")
No, it’s just a bad movie. And lucky enough to be so bad that it became popular and make a couple bucks. Looking forward to your post “In Defense of _Trolls 2_”. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-room-2003-tommy-wiseau-is-actually-a-good-movie-a-great-one-in-fact/803009/8 "2017-11-29T17:09:01Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > I’ve noticed that people who want to prove what better taste than everybody else they have like to tear down things that are very popular and elevate pieces of shit to genius levels. Not saying the OP is this type of person but. . . this movie is a laughable piece of shit. Not saying Aeschines is this type of person, however. Tell me Aeshines, what do you think of Titanic or Avatar? Titanic is a piece of shit. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-room-2003-tommy-wiseau-is-actually-a-good-movie-a-great-one-in-fact/803009/9 "2017-11-29T17:13:47Z")
Seems like I had heard of it, but the name meant nothing to me until just yesterday YouTube suggested I watch the [Honest Trailer for The Room](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9cB0TjfIkM). I don’t know, man. It sure looks bad there. That’s my first exposure to the film. Here’s the second: [Everything Wrong With The Room In 8 Minutes Or Less](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvuwldnG7c0). Ouch. Not looking good at all. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-room-2003-tommy-wiseau-is-actually-a-good-movie-a-great-one-in-fact/803009/10 "2017-11-29T18:08:08Z")
I suppose it was inevitable that, sooner or later, someone would claim “The Room” was a good movie. It’s just a law of the universe that no matter how great or awful something is, someone will argue an opposite and obviously ridiculous position. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-room-2003-tommy-wiseau-is-actually-a-good-movie-a-great-one-in-fact/803009/11 "2017-11-29T18:08:57Z")
**Thoughts?** You’re wrong. It’s terrible. ---
**Author:** ![flaming\_yawn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/cab0a1/32.png) [@flaming\_yawn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flaming_yawn)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-room-2003-tommy-wiseau-is-actually-a-good-movie-a-great-one-in-fact/803009/12 "2017-11-29T18:40:35Z")
I did not … I did not hit her… Oh Hi Mark. Said almost daily in our house. My kids are getting Tommy Wisseau underware for Christmas. I think they come autographed. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-room-2003-tommy-wiseau-is-actually-a-good-movie-a-great-one-in-fact/803009/13 "2017-11-29T18:46:23Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > it is completely fresh and unexpected. So is elephantine diarrhea. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-room-2003-tommy-wiseau-is-actually-a-good-movie-a-great-one-in-fact/803009/14 "2017-11-29T18:50:14Z")
It’s no _Tremors_. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-room-2003-tommy-wiseau-is-actually-a-good-movie-a-great-one-in-fact/803009/15 "2017-11-30T00:57:36Z")
> [@Junior\_Spaceman](#): > > where actor/podcaster/writer Paul Scheer goes into even more detail about it. Worth a listen, anyway. [The Room (w/ Paul Scheer) - Earwolf](http://www.earwolf.com/episode/the-room-w-paul-scheer/) Thanks, will listen! ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-room-2003-tommy-wiseau-is-actually-a-good-movie-a-great-one-in-fact/803009/16 "2017-11-30T01:11:28Z")
> [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](#): > > The Room takes sincerity to a whole new level. Agreed. And part of its off-template nature is that it doesn’t strike a modern cynical pose. > [@](#): > > Not Tommy Wiseau though. He’s gonna make the drama to end all dramas. The audience is going to feel for Johnny like they’ve never felt for a character ever before, goddammit. Too bad Wiseau is an alien from another planet and his first contact with humans was a day before filming. Haha, yep. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-room-2003-tommy-wiseau-is-actually-a-good-movie-a-great-one-in-fact/803009/17 "2017-11-30T01:22:18Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I don’t know what good acting you see. Fair enough. It’s not “good.” I happen to find it entertaining, however, and not just as something to laugh at. For example, Lisa is a fascinating creature in the movie, and the ultimate _effect_ of her acting is compelling–albeit not compelling in an ordinary way. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-room-2003-tommy-wiseau-is-actually-a-good-movie-a-great-one-in-fact/803009/18 "2017-11-30T01:30:36Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > I’ve noticed that people who want to prove what better taste than everybody else they have like to tear down things that are very popular and elevate pieces of shit to genius levels. Not saying the OP is this type of person but. . . this movie is a laughable piece of shit. Not saying Aeschines is this type of person, however. Tell me Aeshines, what do you think of Titanic or Avatar? I have not seen _Avatar_ and I think that _Titanic_ was a kitschy and boring (and thus not good) movie. I’m not a movie snob. Or a music snob. I like what I like and try to be as objective within the subjective as possible. Whether people like _The Room_ or not isn’t in doubt. They do. The point here is to analyze the origin of that appeal. It’s true that the movie isn’t good according to our current templates for “good movies.” It violates such templates egregiously. That’s the main reason why it appears to be so “bad”–and why it, ultimately, is good. ---
**Author:** ![Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/face_intentionally_left_blank/32/288_2.png) [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Face_Intentionally_Left_Blank)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-room-2003-tommy-wiseau-is-actually-a-good-movie-a-great-one-in-fact/803009/19 "2017-11-30T01:37:08Z")
> [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](#): > > So-bad-it’s-good movies can only happen when they’re done with true sincerity. That’s why intentionally bad films like Sharknando don’t work. A comedian couldn’t do the “[Oh, hai Mark](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLhoDB-ORLQ)” scene without smirking. The audience can easily see through it. The Room takes sincerity to a whole new level. Most So-bad-it’s-good (Birdemic, Suburban Sasquatch, Plan 9 from outer space, Manos, etc) are genre films because audiences are more forgiving of them. In the end the filmmakers don’t have the confidence to believe they can make non-schlock. Not Tommy Wiseau though. He’s gonna make the drama to end all dramas. The audience is going to feel for Johnny like they’ve never felt for a character ever before, goddammit. Too bad Wiseau is an alien from another planet and his first contact with humans was a day before filming. I’m not sure I agree with your list of movies that were intentionally bad. Isn’t it generally believed that Ed Wood was genuine in his attempts to make good movies, but his talent, inexperience, and budget prevented it? If so, then “Plan 9” is a serious movie gone wrong. The same thing for “Manos”, though perhaps the fertilizer salesman who made it wasn’t quite as dedicated to the craft as Ed Wood was. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-room-2003-tommy-wiseau-is-actually-a-good-movie-a-great-one-in-fact/803009/20 "2017-11-30T03:16:09Z")
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