# "The Room" (2003, Tommy Wiseau) is actually a good movie. A great one, in fact. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 29, 2017, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-room-2003-tommy-wiseau-is-actually-a-good-movie-a-great-one-in-fact/803009 "2017-11-29T03:54:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-room-2003-tommy-wiseau-is-actually-a-good-movie-a-great-one-in-fact/803009/21 "2017-11-30T09:17:41Z")
“Off template” isn’t really an excuse. Another way to say to same thing is “completely misjudged to the point of absurdity”. It’s the work of a truly delusional narcissist and misogynist who isn’t smart enough to realise just how laughably naive, cartoonish and self-serving his worldview is, and his technical incompetence only magnifies those issues. Imagine scoring 0% on a multiple choice exam where the expected score is 20% just by picking answers at random. It becomes something like an inverse talent to pick the wrong answer every single time. That’s what The Room feels like–a film where the writer/director/star managed to defy the odds by making the single worst creative decision every time. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-room-2003-tommy-wiseau-is-actually-a-good-movie-a-great-one-in-fact/803009/22 "2017-11-30T09:51:25Z")
God, I fucking hate modern art criticism. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-room-2003-tommy-wiseau-is-actually-a-good-movie-a-great-one-in-fact/803009/23 "2017-11-30T12:53:15Z")
> [@Lobot](#): > > “Off template” isn’t really an excuse. Another way to say to same thing is “completely misjudged to the point of absurdity”. It’s the work of a truly delusional narcissist and misogynist who isn’t smart enough to realise just how laughably naive, cartoonish and self-serving his worldview is, and his technical incompetence only magnifies those issues. How is he a misogynist? > [@](#): > > Imagine scoring 0% on a multiple choice exam where the expected score is 20% just by picking answers at random. It becomes something like an inverse talent to pick the wrong answer every single time. That’s what The Room feels like–a film where the writer/director/star managed to defy the odds by making the single worst creative decision every time. I’m not disagreeing with that. He was _not_ competent in the standard dimensions. Normally, being thus incompetent leads to a bad work. But in this case it led to a good work. There are plenty of examples of this, such as the Shags in music. ---
**Author:** ![Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uosdwis_R.Dewoh)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-room-2003-tommy-wiseau-is-actually-a-good-movie-a-great-one-in-fact/803009/24 "2017-11-30T13:19:35Z")
> [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](#): > > I’m not sure I agree with your list of movies that were intentionally bad. Isn’t it generally believed that Ed Wood was genuine in his attempts to make good movies, but his talent, inexperience, and budget prevented it? If so, then “Plan 9” is a serious movie gone wrong. The same thing for “Manos”, though perhaps the fertilizer salesman who made it wasn’t quite as dedicated to the craft as Ed Wood was. You misunderstand me, I think Ed Wood, and people like him, were genuine with their attempts to make a movie. Unlike Tommy Wiseau, their focus on genre movies proves that, on some level, they had a somewhat maybe, if you squint and cock your head, realistic view of what kind of film they could make with their skill and budget. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-room-2003-tommy-wiseau-is-actually-a-good-movie-a-great-one-in-fact/803009/25 "2017-11-30T14:30:08Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > Normally, being thus incompetent leads to a bad work. But in this case it led to a good work. Your opinion doesn’t pass the smell test. It’s crap of the highest order, but it’s still crap. The only amusement it gives is the pointing and laughing at how bad it is. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-room-2003-tommy-wiseau-is-actually-a-good-movie-a-great-one-in-fact/803009/26 "2017-11-30T15:24:25Z")
This is not a good work OP. It’s insanely awful, which is what makes it fun. My friends and I have have seen it at least 20 times. We talk to each other in dialogue from the movie. Actually just two weeks we saw it on the big screen. It’s even crazier that way because you really pay attention and see even new horrors that have been missed. ---
**Author:** ![flaming\_yawn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/cab0a1/32.png) [@flaming\_yawn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flaming_yawn)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-room-2003-tommy-wiseau-is-actually-a-good-movie-a-great-one-in-fact/803009/27 "2017-11-30T15:26:39Z")
The best part was using the same sex scene twice… and the neighbor kid that was a freaky perv (older than all the other actors in the movie btw) Bonus was seeing Tommy’s naked butt.😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-room-2003-tommy-wiseau-is-actually-a-good-movie-a-great-one-in-fact/803009/28 "2017-11-30T16:47:59Z")
I wouldn’t ever call it a good movie, but it is a much more fascinating movie than many good ones. There are many movies that come out every year that can best be described as competent. Everyone does their job, you are entertained for around two hours, but if someone asked you the next day what happened in the movie you’d have a hard time remembering. While if someone asked you the next day after watching The Room you’d remember but have a hard time describing what happened. Most Hollywood directors know what movies should be like, and can fit things to the template. While if you told me Tommy Wiseau has never seen a movie and only heard one described years ago I would believe it. If in a good movie you are expecting good directing, camera work, editing, writing, coherent story, music, production design, then The Room doesn’t meet any of that criteria. But if the only thing you need to describe a good movie is entertaining then The Room definitely fits. ---
**Author:** ![ZonexandScout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zonexandscout/32/544_2.png) [@ZonexandScout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZonexandScout)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-room-2003-tommy-wiseau-is-actually-a-good-movie-a-great-one-in-fact/803009/29 "2017-11-30T16:51:53Z")
It’s not entertaining or interesting and it’s not enlightening. I discern no personal statement from the film-maker. Plus, it’s just badly made. What’s to like? ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-room-2003-tommy-wiseau-is-actually-a-good-movie-a-great-one-in-fact/803009/30 "2017-11-30T19:40:29Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > How is he a misogynist? The general theme of “woman as evil temptress” is a start, as well as Mark’s discussion of the woman who got raped after sleeping around. It’s all pretty ugly when it comes to the portrayal of women. ---
**Author:** ![lost4life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@lost4life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lost4life)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-room-2003-tommy-wiseau-is-actually-a-good-movie-a-great-one-in-fact/803009/31 "2017-12-01T00:13:41Z")
James Franco has a film coming out about it, and it’s not a documentary: > **[The Disaster Artist (film)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Disaster_Artist_(film))** > > The Disaster Artist is a 2017 American biographical comedy-drama film starring, co-produced and directed by James Franco. It was written by Scott Neustadter and Michael H. Weber, based on Greg Sestero and Tom Bissell's 2013 non-fiction book of the same title. The film chronicles an unlikely friendship between aspiring actors Tommy Wiseau and Sestero that results in the production of Wiseau's 2003 film The Room, widely considered one of the worst films ever made. The Disaster Artist stars broth... If you must watch it, catch the RiffTrax version. You’ll thank me. Lastly, the dialogue makes a pretty good [Prince song](https://youtu.be/9FnSvuPTv7I). ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-room-2003-tommy-wiseau-is-actually-a-good-movie-a-great-one-in-fact/803009/32 "2017-12-01T01:09:18Z")
> [@lost4life](#): > > James Franco has a film coming out about it, and it’s not a documentary: > [The Disaster Artist (film) - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Disaster_Artist_(film)) Yep, that’s what inspired me to write this post, basically. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-room-2003-tommy-wiseau-is-actually-a-good-movie-a-great-one-in-fact/803009/33 "2017-12-01T01:12:09Z")
> [@lost4life](#): > > Lastly, the dialogue makes a pretty good [Prince song](https://youtu.be/9FnSvuPTv7I). That’s hilarious! Only 6,000-something views?! ---
**Author:** ![eunoia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eunoia/32/97_2.png) [@eunoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eunoia)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-room-2003-tommy-wiseau-is-actually-a-good-movie-a-great-one-in-fact/803009/34 "2017-12-01T06:59:39Z")
> [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](#): > > I’m not sure I agree with your list of movies that were intentionally bad. Isn’t it generally believed that Ed Wood was genuine in his attempts to make good movies, but his talent, inexperience, and budget prevented it? If so, then “Plan 9” is a serious movie gone wrong. The same thing for “Manos”, though perhaps the fertilizer salesman who made it wasn’t quite as dedicated to the craft as Ed Wood was. > [@lost4life](#): > > James Franco has a film coming out about it, and it’s not a documentary: > [The Disaster Artist (film) - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Disaster_Artist_(film)) I came here to say… like Ed Wood, there’s a Wiseau biopic coming. Just because the subjects made awful films doesn’t mean… ---
**Author:** ![eunoia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eunoia/32/97_2.png) [@eunoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eunoia)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-room-2003-tommy-wiseau-is-actually-a-good-movie-a-great-one-in-fact/803009/35 "2017-12-01T07:03:14Z")
> [@lost4life](#): > > Lastly, the dialogue makes a pretty good [Prince song](https://youtu.be/9FnSvuPTv7I). Missed this in my haste to post, but I’m dead! ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-room-2003-tommy-wiseau-is-actually-a-good-movie-a-great-one-in-fact/803009/36 "2017-12-05T20:25:44Z")
[Wiseau laugh]Ha ha ha ha[/Wiseau] ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-room-2003-tommy-wiseau-is-actually-a-good-movie-a-great-one-in-fact/803009/37 "2017-12-05T20:53:18Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > I have not seen _Avatar_ and I think that _Titanic_ was a kitschy and boring (and thus not good) movie. I love my daughter, too, and think Tom Brady seems like a boring dumbass, but I know which one is a good NFL quarterback and which one doesn’t even know the rules of football. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2017, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-room-2003-tommy-wiseau-is-actually-a-good-movie-a-great-one-in-fact/803009/38 "2017-12-06T00:56:34Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I don’t know what good acting you see. Wisseau’s acting is horrible. I can’t recall a single part where he believably feels an emotion. Oh, come on! He likes football. Football is fun. ETA: It’s a little tough for me to be glib about this movie given my hypothesis that it was made solely for the purpose of money laundering and that paying money to see it in some fashion is probably rewarding an illegal enterprise. You’ve heard how Hollywood Accounting can keep any film from showing a profit? It works in reverse, too. ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2017, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-room-2003-tommy-wiseau-is-actually-a-good-movie-a-great-one-in-fact/803009/39 "2017-12-06T02:25:32Z")
> [@StusBlues](#): > > Oh, come on! He likes football. Football is fun. > > ETA: It’s a little tough for me to be glib about this movie given my hypothesis that it was made solely for the purpose of money laundering and that paying money to see it in some fashion is probably rewarding an illegal enterprise. You’ve heard how Hollywood Accounting can keep any film from showing a profit? It works in reverse, too. I have no idea why, but this post made the following pop into my head: Jews keep films from showing a profit, while Muslims keep films from showing a Prophet. I’ve no idea if that has been done before, but if not- You heard it here first. I’ll just show myself out now. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2017, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-room-2003-tommy-wiseau-is-actually-a-good-movie-a-great-one-in-fact/803009/40 "2017-12-06T02:27:06Z")
> [@Junior\_Spaceman](#): > > I haven’t seen the film, so can’t comment directly, but there was a podcast this week talking about how it should be considered as a worthwhile movie in the history of film, where actor/podcaster/writer Paul Scheer goes into even more detail about it. Worth a listen, anyway. [The Room (w/ Paul Scheer) - Earwolf](http://www.earwolf.com/episode/the-room-w-paul-scheer/) Paul Scheer just happens to be in The Disaster Artist. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-room-2003-tommy-wiseau-is-actually-a-good-movie-a-great-one-in-fact/803009.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-room-2003-tommy-wiseau-is-actually-a-good-movie-a-great-one-in-fact/803009.md?page=3)