# The "Rooney Rule" in the NFL is a joke. **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 9, 2010, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rooney-rule-in-the-nfl-is-a-joke/524309 "2010-01-09T19:28:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![SCSimmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@SCSimmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCSimmons)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rooney-rule-in-the-nfl-is-a-joke/524309/41 "2010-01-11T22:42:09Z")
> [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > I’m still trying to wrap my head anyone thinking that the Cowboys are in the playoffs _because_ of Wade Phillips rather than _in spite_ of him. Well, I do. Sort of … Although his biggest contribution comes from not really being head coach any longer, so maybe he’s just a terrible example to be using. 😃 For those who don’t know, Jerry fired the Cowboys’ defcor after last season, and asked Wade to fulfill those duties personally rather than hiring a replacement. So while the official titles are: Wade Phillips: Head Coach, Defensive Coordinatory Jason Garrett: Assistant Head Coach, Offensive Coordinator you can bet that Wade is much less involved in the offense than in previous years, and more involved in the defense. Meanwhile, Jason has a lot more freedom than he used to in running the offense as he sees fit. It’s probably more accurate to list the org chart as: Wade Phillips: Co-head coach, Defensive Coordinator Jason Garrett: Co-head Coach, Offensive Coordinator and think of the team as being run by a head coaching committee. Yet another in a long line of crazy owner/GM maneuvers by Jerry (he’s still got a long way to go before he catches Al Davis, thank Og!), but this one seems to have worked. The defense had really been off the rails at times the last two seasons or so, but this year (especially in the last half of the season), they have been incredibly effective, especially in their scoring defense (as opposed to yards allowed or turnovers forced), which you have to think is really the key defensive stat. 🙂 Eg., the two consecutive shutouts at the end of the season were the first _ever_ back-to-back shutouts recorded by the franchise. So yes, I give Wade some credit for the Cowboys’ success this season. But probably not for his head coaching, but for his defensive coaching. Which kind of makes sense, as he’s proven successful at that in the past. ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rooney-rule-in-the-nfl-is-a-joke/524309/42 "2010-01-12T19:07:08Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > But quite a few of the successful retreads I refer to probably WOULD have raised your ire. > > Bill Belichick was a bust in Cleveland. Did he not look like another unqualified “retread” when the Patriots hired him? > > Dick Vermeil was a retread who’d been out of football for ages when the Rams hired him. Did THAT look like a great move? > > At the time those guys were hired, it LOOKED to a lot of people as if the Old Boys Network was at work, and that better qualified black men had been passed over yet again. Boy, do you don’t hesitate to make assumptions based on no evidence, do you? As I’ve repeatedly said, I wasn’t complaining about hiring all retreads, just those based on nepotism. In fact none of them raised my ire, save for Belicheck, who I as a Browns fan have the right to hate. You incorrectly said that I’d be surprised to know that 10 of the last 12 Super Bowl winners were “retreads.” What you base that on, I’ve no idea. I said IRL and on this board that I prefer coaches who’ve been successful in other places, rather than giving on the job training to newbies. I’m a Browns fan and it pains me that Belicheck learned so well while he was such a lousy coach for my favorite team. Further, included in that group are Shanahan (a well respected coach when fired by the Raiders, a two time SB winner in Denver), Vermeil (who voluntarily retired from Philly, sat in the broadcast booth for a number of years, and who came back to win in St. Louis), Dungy, (who won in Indy but who was considered an excellent coach in TB before the TB owner decided he’s rather have Gruden), Gruden (who won in TB after Oakland decided they could live without him if they traded him to TB), Belicheck (who improved enough (and lucked into a great QB) to win 3 SBs in NE), and Coughlin (who failed as an expansion team coach with Jax but who won with an established team in NJ). You might be interested to know that that adds up to 9 of the last 12 Super Bowl winners, not 10 of 12. Neither of the Steelers’ two coaches nor the Ravens coach was a retread. ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rooney-rule-in-the-nfl-is-a-joke/524309/43 "2010-01-12T19:51:03Z")
About Wade - People make such sweeping conclusions based on a few games. He’s 1-4 lifetime in the playoffs now. When he was 0-4, was that really enough evidence to say he’s a bad playoff coach? The only game where he was favored was when the Cowboys lost by 4 to the Giants, who went on to win the SB. Belichick lost to them too. He was the underdog in both years in Buffalo; they lost the first year when Flutie fumbled as they were on the doorstep to tie the game; they lost the second year on the Music City Miracle. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rooney-rule-in-the-nfl-is-a-joke/524309/44 "2010-01-13T16:54:01Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > If the Oakland Raiders decide they want to hire Denny Green as their next coach, do they also need to interview Norm Chow? No, but they probably should. Not that I would wish that job on either of them. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rooney-rule-in-the-nfl-is-a-joke/524309/45 "2010-01-14T17:39:40Z")
> [@SCSimmons](#): > > Well, I do. Sort of … Although his biggest contribution comes from not really being head coach any longer, so maybe he’s just a terrible example to be using. 😃 > > \ > > So yes, I give Wade some credit for the Cowboys’ success this season. But probably not for his head coaching, but for his defensive coaching. Which kind of makes sense, as he’s proven successful at that in the past. Huh…very intresting. I remember talk that Phillips was going to have more of a hand in the defense, but just wrote it off as “Hey, great – even more of a distraction for him”. But you’re right about the whole “co-head coach” thing, and it probably is responsible for the better performance we’re seeing from them. Good call – thanks for the schooling. Now go Vikings. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rooney-rule-in-the-nfl-is-a-joke/524309/46 "2010-01-14T20:07:35Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Really? You don’t think any of them would be hired on merits, but kept out due to a big racist conspiracy? From [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rooney_Rule), but citing sources: “At the start of the 2006 season, the overall percentage of African American coaches had jumped to 22%, up from 6% prior to the Rooney Rule.” There’s no point in playing the what if game, **SenorBeef**. _We have the data._ I remember back in the late '90’s, when I was paying attention to football, a lot of commentators had begun advocating for a rule like this one. And there was a ton of opposition from the champions of the status-quo saying “It’ll never work, so why bother?” Well it does work. So why are we arguing about it? –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rooney-rule-in-the-nfl-is-a-joke/524309/47 "2010-01-14T20:29:56Z")
You have no proof that the rooney rule was the reason for the hires. Correlation is not causation. It could’ve been a naturally changing social culture in the NFL which would’ve been friendlier to black coaches even without the rule. Maybe a batch of particular individuals (it doesn’t take a lot of individual cases to change trends in a 32 man sample size) who happened to be black and also really good candidates popped up at the same time. Maybe there has been an upswing at the college game of black coaches in prominent positions that has let more be evaluated at the NFL level. Any of these ideas is far less absurd than the idea that a big racist conspiracy was crumbled because black coaches sweet talked and changed the mind of a big racist conspiracy meant to keep them out during a mandatory interview. Edit: I’m including both of those components as part of the idea that the Rooney rule as successful - that the NFL was institutionally racist previously and passed up the best candidates due to racial discrimination, and that the mandatory interviews somehow changed their mind on the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rooney-rule-in-the-nfl-is-a-joke/524309/48 "2010-01-14T20:31:30Z")
Well, _part_ of that increase is due to the Rooney Rule. Part is surely due to the individual success of Tony Dungy - and _his_ mentor, Denny Green. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rooney-rule-in-the-nfl-is-a-joke/524309/49 "2010-01-15T20:48:04Z")
Not that it matters, but the Sports Guy agrees with me. [Column](http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/100115/one). About halfway through, under the "The Russian Running Away From Paulie and Christopher Into the Woods Award for “Most Fascinating Subplot of Round 1 That Had Nothing to Do With Anything” award paragraph. > [@](#): > > The whole thing was phenomenally insulting. Either enforce the Rooney Rule or abolish it. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rooney-rule-in-the-nfl-is-a-joke/524309/50 "2010-01-15T20:49:12Z")
He wrote about something other than the NBA salary cap? Wow, it’s been years … ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rooney-rule-in-the-nfl-is-a-joke/524309/51 "2010-01-15T21:34:08Z")
> [@Southern\_Yankee](#): > > Seriously, why even bother? For those of you who don’t know what I’m talking about, some time back the NFL instituted a rule that at least one minority candidate must be interviewed for a vacant head coach position. In reality, teams often have a candidate in mind, and if he happens to be caucasion, they have to pretend to be interested in at least one minority candidate. The news outlets refer to it in their stories as a team “satisfying the Rooney Rule.” Recent [example](http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4810861). > > It’s a joke. I’m all for fairness and equal opportunity, but when the minority candidate is clearly being brought in just to satisfy the rule, how does that help anyone? In this case, it was blatantly obvious, and widely reported that Seattle had their minds set on Pete Carroll for their next coach. So, when Leslie Frazier’s agent called him, how do you think the conversation went? > > \ > > Agent: “Hey, Les, great news! The Seahawks called and want you to come in for the head coaching spot.” > > Frazier: “Umm, I just read on [ESPN.com](http://ESPN.com) that they really want Pete Carroll. And, you know, I’m black, so it’s a Rooney Rule thing. Do I have to go?” > > \ To go way out in left tangent field… In college teaching, they have a similar rule except it is for a long distance candidate. Since I lived in buttfuck Wyoming and wanted to go elsewhere I would get many calls for interviews but always had the gut feeling they weren’t ‘real’. The main problem is that most schools have a ‘policy’ or convenient state law which says they couldn’t pay for interview costs. You had to throw yourself on their mercy saying things like “Money is tight right now, do you guys have a favored or internal candidate seeking the position?” which was code for 'please please tell me whether this is real or not!" which usually worked. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rooney-rule-in-the-nfl-is-a-joke/524309.md?page=2)