# "The Rotten Core of Our Political System" **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 18, 2022, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rotten-core-of-our-political-system/964611 "2022-05-18T13:25:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rotten-core-of-our-political-system/964611/41 "2022-05-19T14:29:15Z")
**TedBaiamonte** has been suspended for a day for ignoring mod instruction and generally being disruptive. I’m going to request a ban, but in the meantime at least we get a day off from whatever this was. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rotten-core-of-our-political-system/964611/42 "2022-05-19T14:30:47Z")
May 19th has now been proclaimed national Hug A Moderator Day ! ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rotten-core-of-our-political-system/964611/43 "2022-05-19T14:31:48Z")
**Warning issued** : You were already modnoted about empty posts like this one. You appear to be a Sealioning Troll and as such I will be asking the mods to ban you. You are also suspended for a day in the meantime. > [@TedBaiamonte](#): > > I have no idea why you are citing the declaration of independence in regard to my statement that Republicans are for freedom and Democrats are for government. Can you explain the connection? etc. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rotten-core-of-our-political-system/964611/44 "2022-05-19T15:27:13Z")
Even if it is that sort of dichotomy, the real problem is that one side is basically refusing to play ball, and is trying to change the rules. I mean, ideally the outcome of two opposing viewpoints should be some sort of middle compromise- the comment that I’ve heard is that it’s a good compromise if nobody actually likes it, but everyone tolerates it. Except that the Republicans are effectively digging their heels in and refusing to compromise on the vast majority of issues- there’s no middle ground to be found on so many high visibility issues. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rotten-core-of-our-political-system/964611/45 "2022-05-19T15:45:38Z")
The biggest problem, IMHO, is that issues are being portrayed in an us vs them way when some things are simply in everyone’s interests. Universal healthcare, if done correctly, would mean a lot more efficiency, money saved and effectiveness - all things that ought to, in theory, appeal to conservatives. But it’s marketed the wrong way, and hence it’s opposed because it’s a “liberal idea” when it shouldn’t - it should be viewed as useful for all. America needs a president who can market and sell an idea with the right packaging to both sides as a win-win for all. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rotten-core-of-our-political-system/964611/46 "2022-05-19T15:45:59Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > May 19th has now been proclaimed national Hug A Moderator Day ! Second that! I guess my thread is going to die now because everybody _left_\* already agrees with my OP. \*_See what I did there?_ ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rotten-core-of-our-political-system/964611/47 "2022-05-19T15:49:26Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > But it’s marketed the wrong way, and hence it’s opposed because it’s a “liberal idea” when it shouldn’t - it should be viewed as useful for all. It _is_ marketed as exactly what you say, efficiency, money saved, and effectiveness. However, since it’s a “liberal idea” (even though the ACA originated in Republican think tanks) it is opposed reflexively, with ad hoc and usually untrue justifications to follow. > [@Velocity](#): > > America needs a president who can market and sell an idea with the right packaging to both sides as a win-win for all. No, american needs a constituency that is willing to buy a package that is a win-win for all, instead of looking for how to make the other side _lose_. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rotten-core-of-our-political-system/964611/48 "2022-05-19T16:02:45Z")
Requoted from the OP’s book extract: > [@ThelmaLou](#): > > The book’s Democrats are at least sane, but they’re beset by petty quarrels, forever trying to solve the “identity politics’ Rubik’s cube,” and dragged down by a pervasive exhaustion; their elderly leaders are unable to grasp the brutal political forces swirling around them. The Republicans are hell-bent on the destruction of American democracy … Earlier, I posted this as a sort of half-joking comment in another thread. Never mind. That book suggests it would be literally true: > [@Democrats or Republicans get gifted a 535-0 majority in Congress. What happens?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-or-republicans-get-gifted-a-535-0-majority-in-congress-what-happens/964575/13): > > Only half-jokingly: D’s: Would get embroiled in internal bickering between the more militant progressives and more moderate factions; in the end, would get nothing done. Also, Bernie Sanders gets hit in the face with a tomato thrown by Kyrsten Sinema right in the Senate chamber. R’s: Would get a lot done, all of it wrong and stupid, sending America to hell in a handbasket. Would also set standards for “free and fair elections” which, remarkably, guarantee that Republicans keep getting re-ele… ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rotten-core-of-our-political-system/964611/49 "2022-05-19T16:08:08Z")
Actually your summary is remarkably close to my view on it also. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rotten-core-of-our-political-system/964611/50 "2022-05-19T16:50:13Z")
This was my first exposure to the use of the term “sealioning troll”, so I looked it up–that’s a high quality descriptor of a tactic I’ve seen a lot, but hadn’t really seen a unified term for previously. > [@Kimstu](#): > > The Republican Party is firmly in the grip of its own extremist lunatics and trolls. and consequently incapable of formulating a reasonable and intelligent governance policy of any kind, because all its key constituents want to do is indulge their delusional fantasies and “own the libs”. The article singles out Kevin McCarthy for particular scorn (which I think is fair, he is neither crazy enough to get an “insanity defense” pass like MTG or Boebert, or outright evil enough to just be understood as a malignancy ala Trump, instead he is someone who basically should know better, and chose deliberately not to for pure lust of power) and I think looking at the Republican history of that position is telling. Going back to Obama’s first term, we have John Boehner in that seat. Boehner was certainly a flawed politician, but he had some sense that “yes, I do have a responsibility to not let the country entirely implode.” His political cravenness meant that he had to _flirt with allowing it to implode_, but when things came down to the wire he showed his cards even though it burned him with the House Freedom Caucus, he’d compromise his basic sense of government responsibility quite far, but even he had a line. He eventually left politics in part because he realized someone who has just the tiniest, thinnest veneer of caring about getting things done really has no place in leadership in the GOP. Then walks in Paul Ryan, ideologically more “pure” right winger, and thus in theory more acceptable to the House Freedom Caucus. He largely did little better with his own crazies than Boehner did, and he announced he was not running for reelection in the '18 midterms and left office as power transitioned to the House Democrats. While he hasn’t spoken a ton about it, it seems fairly obvious he had the same core problem that Boehner did–while he has few principles and many allegiances to far right interests, on some level he **did not get into government to destroy the country** , so he wasn’t willing to keep going with a party leadership position that is difficult to hold or manage unless you _are_ fine with that. Now we arrive on Kevin McCarthy–he is the one who has shown that he doesn’t even have the weak lines that Boehner and Ryan wouldn’t cross, McCarthy is the man who will go as far as the crazies want him to go–because his sole concern is getting power and keeping power. The general “devolution” of quality of Republican elected leaders is continuing apace, and things will get **much worse** before they get better because of it–if they can get better or will get better at all. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rotten-core-of-our-political-system/964611/51 "2022-05-19T18:04:47Z")
It seems to me even more significant that what McCarthy does _is_ what he needs to do to retain power, that these actions are richly rewarded by the voters, and that if he didn’t do it, he would be deposed by someone who would, and even more intensely. (I assume that the factors that led to this is part of the “core” being discussed in the book.) ---
**Author:** ![Daithi\_Lacha](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daithi_lacha/32/5430_2.png) [@Daithi\_Lacha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daithi_Lacha)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rotten-core-of-our-political-system/964611/52 "2022-05-19T18:33:44Z")
“They do have it very sweet in China now under Republican capitalism” If this is true, why do so many people insist on referring to anything to do with China as _Chinese Communist Party_? Like, I can’t mention China without my hyper-partisan wife scoffing, “Oh, you mean the Communists?” Serious question, btw. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rotten-core-of-our-political-system/964611/53 "2022-05-19T19:15:46Z")
Because most people who speak about anything political start with a desire to put forth a specific political viewpoint. China is run by the Chinese Communist Party as a one-party state, which is absolute truth. However, it has largely abandoned many of the core tenets of Marxism-Leninism that it followed prior to Deng’s reign. It now practices a mixture of state capitalism (with significant cronyism), some free market capitalism, and also promotes some remnant Marxism-Leninism policies/behaviors. As has been said many times before–it is a blended system. Most modern Republicans have essentially no idea what Communism or Socialism or Marxism are (and admittedly, depending on philosophical school you follow Communism & Socialism aren’t always distinct terms), it’s just a word they use to mean “something we hate.” The modern GOP actually favors many of the domestic economic policies the CCP uses, but the GOP still dislikes China for a number of reasons, so they are going to play up its Communism because Communism is a word that means “people conservatives hate.” ---
**Author:** ![Daithi\_Lacha](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daithi_lacha/32/5430_2.png) [@Daithi\_Lacha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daithi_Lacha)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rotten-core-of-our-political-system/964611/54 "2022-05-19T19:33:16Z")
Thank you for that cogent explanation. I also note with interest that the touring show of Shen Yun, a Chinese arts and dance troupe, is billing itself as “China before Communism.” I imagine that this is a dog whistle, and a fairly cynical one at that, intended to draw in those who probably wouldn’t give a tinker’s dam about seeing something like that normally. ETA: So it turns out that Shen Yun is presented by the Falun Gong, the same folks behind Epoch Times. All my previous eyerolls seem to be merited. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rotten-core-of-our-political-system/964611.md?page=2)