# The rules for beating Trump... **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 28, 2018, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rules-for-beating-trump/818734 "2018-07-28T16:17:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rules-for-beating-trump/818734/21 "2018-07-29T01:27:07Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > In Gainesville, Georgia, it’s a crime to eat a chicken with utensils. > > It’s also a stupid fucking law. Eating fried chicken is nowhere near the level of illegal immigration. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rules-for-beating-trump/818734/22 "2018-07-29T01:36:13Z")
Maybe not in your house. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rules-for-beating-trump/818734/23 "2018-07-29T02:40:06Z")
> [@survinga](#): > > I don’t think Stephens is implying that we all need to act like everything is normal. I think Stephens is saying that people need to quit freaking out over Trump, and get down to the business of getting a better, more decent, more honorable, more worthy-of-governing alternative. > > There’s alot to be outraged about with Trump, and I feel outrage myself. But we need to focus on finding the alternative who can unite the 60% of the country that either despises Trump or doesn’t think he’s the greatest thing ever. At some point, the energy that came from being outraged has to be turned into building an alternative to Trump. > [@El\_Kabong](#): > > I will say that I actually agree that the TV news media and the political opposition tend to overreport and criticize Trump’s daily hijinks. That in no way means that his presidency is not an incipient disaster, however; certainly arguable in the areas of immigration, foreign policy, environmental management and general overthrowing of democratic norms. That sort of values corrosion should be highlighted whenever it occurs. I do wish there were less emphasis on his many moral and intellectual failings though. He’s a colossal asshole and revels in it, and 30-40% country seems to be totally OK with that; fine, let’s move on to more productive discussions. Right. Give the country something to vote FOR. As the saying goes, “you can’t beat something with nothing” even if the something is an abomination. Telling them “OMG, you can’t possibly support him! Look at how horrible he is!” already failed in '16. A large segment of the population is used and accustomed to _“Asshole Boss”_ as just something that is part of everyday life so it does little good to dwell on that unless you can show that it’s hurting \*them \*worse than normal AND that there IS a better way. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rules-for-beating-trump/818734/24 "2018-07-29T03:08:59Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes. But entering the United States at other than a designated point of entry is a crime. > > Do you agree? And would that be a felony or a misdemeanor? If a misdemeanor, does that mean that any misdemeanor offense justifies separation of parents and children? What level of offense justifies ripping a nursing infant from its mother’s breast? What kind of government forces people to sign forms they don’t understand and send them a continent away from their children? At long last, does this administration or its sycophants have no shame? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rules-for-beating-trump/818734/25 "2018-07-29T04:35:07Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes. But entering the United States at other than a designated point of entry is a crime. > > Do you agree? No. You can legally enter the United States from anywhere, generally, if you have a visa or are a citizen. I know, you’re going to try to say I lack nuance and/or context. But, then, so do you. You ignore that the points of entry were closed. You ignore that the “crimes” being committed were not usually treated as crimes before this. You ignore the greater crime of _ **permanently** _ separating children from their parents. If they’d been returned now, maybe you’d have a point. This sort of tactic of picking out a single point and ignoring the rest is useless. You cannot remove the context and have a valid discussion. This is the tactic you use that I most dislike, and will continue to fight when it comes up. Even if you don’t change your approach, at least I can hope to highlight it for others, so we can have more full discussions that don’t get stuck on a single relatively inconsequential point. Ultimately, you cannot defend an inhumane act by referencing a crime, especially one that causes very little harm and could be remedied in a much better way. Appropriate force applies to government intervention as much as it does personal defense and the police. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rules-for-beating-trump/818734/26 "2018-07-29T09:59:55Z")
> [@survinga](#): > > [https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/27/opinion/donald-trump-2020.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/27/opinion/donald-trump-2020.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region) > > Lots to think about in Bret Stephens’ article. Those of you familiar with Bret might realize that he’s a former Republican and now never-Trumper. > > Here’s my favorite point: > > \*\*"While they’re at it, they might try to observe Rule No. 2: Stop predicting imminent disaster. The story of the Trump presidency so far isn’t catastrophe. It’s corrosion — of our political institutions, civic morals, global relationships and democratic values. > > Democrats can make a successful run against the corrosion, just as George W. Bush did in a prosperous age with his promise to restore “honor and dignity” to the White House after the scandals of the Clinton years. But they’re not going to do it by repeatedly forecasting a stock market meltdown, worldwide depression, or global thermonuclear war — and then wondering why they aren’t believed."\*\* > > I personally haven’t heard as much of this imminent disaster prediction as Bret talks about. But I do think that running against the “corrosion” of Trump and being more about honor and dignity would help anyone who runs against Trump. I think that’s the best way to attack him. The article is wishful thinking and ideas the angry left just can’t sustain. If you want to beat Trump you have to appeal to the middle voters. But the Democrats are going further to the left. Meanwhile, the economy is cooking at 4.1% growth in GDP, and might even go higher next November. Running with honor and dignity? That’s a short list for Dem’s. And it did not work for Bob Dole, because he was a weak candidate. Moreover, Trump was not elected for his morals. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rules-for-beating-trump/818734/27 "2018-07-29T11:09:50Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes. But entering the United States at other than a designated point of entry is a crime. > > Do you agree? If it is a crime, are those arrested for it entitled to due process? ---
**Author:** ![survinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@survinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/survinga)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rules-for-beating-trump/818734/28 "2018-07-29T12:34:13Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > The article is wishful thinking and ideas the angry left just can’t sustain. If you want to beat Trump you have to appeal to the middle voters. But the Democrats are going further to the left. Meanwhile, the economy is cooking at 4.1% growth in GDP, and might even go higher next November. > > Running with honor and dignity? That’s a short list for Dem’s. And it did not work for Bob Dole, because he was a weak candidate. Moreover, Trump was not elected for his morals. Good points. I do think asking some to get out of freak-out mode is wishful thinking. I would note though that he was running against Hillary in 2016, who is unique in her own set of ethical issues. I think once you get beyond Hillary, the Dems have more than a few who can attack Trump on his ethics & morals, without being dragged into the mud themselves. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rules-for-beating-trump/818734/29 "2018-07-29T14:36:18Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes. But entering the United States at other than a designated point of entry is a crime. > > Do you agree? And entering at a designated point and requesting asylum is not, agreed? And yet, those who did that are also being treated the same. And… if an asylum seeker is prevented from entering at a designated point of entry, that complicates matters a bit, don’t you think? Imagine if you are trying to get to work, and a cop car is sitting in the right lane of a two lane road. You carefully go around this obstruction, and then he pulls you over for crossing the double yellow line, even though, the only reason you crossed the double line was because he was obstructing your right of way. Do your kids get taken away from you for that? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rules-for-beating-trump/818734/30 "2018-07-29T14:38:38Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Eating fried chicken is nowhere near the level of illegal immigration. Please cite that there are more undocumented immigrants than there are people who eat fried chicken. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rules-for-beating-trump/818734/31 "2018-07-29T14:52:26Z")
Bullitt wrote: “This corrosion spoken of is generated by the media to inaccurately fan the flames, tap into your emotions, get you riled up, and in the end, have you buy their so-called “news” products. You’re having the wool pulled over your eyes, and the so-called media outlets arebenefitting.” Oh yes. Who are we going to believe? You or our own lying eyes. trump says he didn’t make fun of a disabled reporter. His supporters believe him. But it’s not about others believing “the media”. It’s about us believing freaking VIDEOTAPE. trump says he had bigger crowds than Obama and his supporters believe him. But for the rest of us it’s not about believing “the media”. It’s about actually seeing the two events live and unfiltered on tv. Comparison of what is to what was is how we know, that after twenty, forty, or sixty years of observation, this shit ain’t normal. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rules-for-beating-trump/818734/32 "2018-07-29T15:00:44Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > Bullitt wrote: “This corrosion spoken of is generated by the media to inaccurately fan the flames, tap into your emotions, get you riled up, and in the end, have you buy their so-called “news” products. You’re having the wool pulled over your eyes, and the so-called media outlets arebenefitting.” > > Oh yes. Who are we going to believe? You or our own lying eyes. trump says he didn’t make fun of a disabled reporter. His supporters believe him. But it’s not about others believing “the media”. It’s about us believing freaking VIDEOTAPE. trump says he had bigger crowds than Obama and his supporters believe him. But for the rest of us it’s not about believing “the media”. It’s about actually seeing the two events live and unfiltered on tv. > > Comparison of what is to what was is how we know, that after twenty, forty, or sixty years of observation, this shit ain’t normal. He certainly did make fun of that disabled reporter. Trump can be such a buffoon when he flaps his gums. > [@](#): > > Who are we going to believe? You or our own lying eyes. Believe what you want. I’m not here to change your minds, if you and many many still choose to drink the Kool-Aid of the media snake oil salespeople. I’m telling it like it is. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rules-for-beating-trump/818734/33 "2018-07-29T15:48:19Z")
The only way to defeat Trump is if there are more decent people than scum in this country. Right now, that’s uncertain. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rules-for-beating-trump/818734/34 "2018-07-29T16:02:12Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Please cite that there are more undocumented immigrants than there are people who eat fried chicken. I wasn’t talking about the _numerical_ level, rather the level of severity. Having a law governing which utensils may be used to eat chicken IS a silly law, but having laws governing immigration are not. Eating chicken only affects the individual, whereas immigration affects everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rules-for-beating-trump/818734/35 "2018-07-29T16:09:35Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > What this country needs is a cleansing. It needs to see once and for all, a complete and total wipe-out of wealth that are attributable to one party rule. We are a nation of intellectual pygmies and that is the only way we learn: through pain. It sounds to me like you’re suggesting [the Purge.](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2184339/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_26) 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![JB99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JB99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JB99)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rules-for-beating-trump/818734/36 "2018-07-29T16:13:49Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > Believe what you want. I’m not here to change your minds, if you and many many still choose to drink the Kool-Aid of the media snake oil salespeople. What does this even mean? I know Trump is an incompetent, lying narcissist because of the rabid filth that comes out of his own goddamned pie-hole. I don’t need any media middlemen to explain something that Trump proves on a daily basis. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rules-for-beating-trump/818734/37 "2018-07-29T16:32:38Z")
One thing you hear Trump supporters say over and over is that they like him because _he tells it like it is_. They say this about a man who has made over [2000 false statements](http://projects.thestar.com/donald-trump-fact-check/) since being sworn in as president, and countless thousands more before that. He lies to the American people pretty much daily. Perhaps nobody in American history has such a thoroughly documented level of dishonesty. So what in the holy fuck is “it”? Does “it” mean completely and utter bullshit? Are his supporters so disconnected from reality that they require a constant stream of fantasy and illusion? You know what it really means to tell it like it is? Donald Trump is a lying cunt. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rules-for-beating-trump/818734/38 "2018-07-29T16:46:59Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **D’Anconia** : > > I wasn’t talking about the _numerical_ level, rather the level of severity. Unless you’re claiming that the chicken thing is a felony, you’re wrong there, too. The level of severity of both is misdemeanor. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rules-for-beating-trump/818734/39 "2018-07-29T16:47:35Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > I wasn’t talking about the _numerical_ level, rather the level of severity. Ah, a clarification. An incorrect one, but thank you for clarifying that the misdemeanor of unlawful entry is more severe than the misdemeanor of improper chicken utensil use. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > Having a law governing which utensils may be used to eat chicken IS a silly law, but having laws governing immigration are not. This is a matter of opinion. There are those who would feel as much condemnation about you using a fork on your chicken, as you do about someone fleeing violence and/or seeking a better life for their family. > [@](#): > > Eating chicken only affects the individual, whereas immigration affects everyone. [Chicken affects everyone too.](http://www.upc-online.org/environment/) Of course immigration affects everyone, [it adds to our tax base, it increases our labor pool (especially of jobs that native born Americans have no interest in doing), it increases consumer demand.](https://www.bushcenter.org/catalyst/north-american-century/benefits-of-immigration-outweigh-costs.html) > [@](#): > > ["immigration has an overall positive impact on long-run economic growth in the U.S.](https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-23/study-examines-immigrations-economic-costs)" ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rules-for-beating-trump/818734/40 "2018-07-29T16:49:49Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > One thing you hear Trump supporters say over and over is that they like him because _he tells it like it is_. They say this about a man who has made over [2000 false statements](http://projects.thestar.com/donald-trump-fact-check/) since being sworn in as president, and countless thousands more before that. He lies to the American people pretty much daily. Perhaps nobody in American history has such a thoroughly documented level of dishonesty. > > So what in the holy fuck is “it”? Does “it” mean completely and utter bullshit? Are his supporters so disconnected from reality that they require a constant stream of fantasy and illusion? > > You know what it really means to tell it like it is? Donald Trump is a lying cunt. What they mean is “He says what I want to hear.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rules-for-beating-trump/818734.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rules-for-beating-trump/818734.md?page=3)