# The Rules for Writing Roman Numerals **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 26, 2012, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rules-for-writing-roman-numerals/645205 "2012-12-26T18:54:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rules-for-writing-roman-numerals/645205/1 "2012-12-26T18:54:44Z")
Are (were) the rules for writing Roman Numerals set in stone (heh)? If I write XIII instead of XIV, would a Latin teacher dock me some points? If Morologus the Scribe wrote XXVIIII on a receipt for 29 bushels of grain instead of XXIX, would his master have had him flogged? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rules-for-writing-roman-numerals/645205/2 "2012-12-26T18:58:07Z")
Re. XIII vs XIV, well, one is 13 and the other one is 14… but I’ve seen 14 written both as XIIII and as XIV. Usually the briefer forms would be preferred, but take into account that asking about “rules for Roman Numerals” is asking about rules for something that was in daily use for many centuries in a very large area. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rules-for-writing-roman-numerals/645205/3 "2012-12-26T19:08:30Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Re. XIII vs XIV, well, one is 13 and the other one is 14… but I’ve seen 14 written both as XIIII and as XIV. Sorry **Nava**. I meant to write XIIII and XIV-- both 14. My eyesight isn’t what it used to be (and it wasn’t much to begin with). ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rules-for-writing-roman-numerals/645205/4 "2012-12-26T19:18:51Z")
use a sharp chisel, erasing sloppy numerals or mistakes takes a lot of time. practice your hammer aim or use a modern chisel with a hand guard. ---
**Author:** ![RedSwinglineOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a9adbd/32.png) [@RedSwinglineOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedSwinglineOne)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rules-for-writing-roman-numerals/645205/5 "2012-12-26T19:27:21Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > Sorry **Nava**. I meant to write XIIII and XIV-- both 14. My eyesight isn’t what it used to be (and it wasn’t much to begin with). While I can’t answer the ‘set in stone’ part, this is a good example of why the rules are what they are. It’s easy to distinguish I, II, and III at a glance, but by IIII, I feel like I need to start actually counting I’s. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rules-for-writing-roman-numerals/645205/6 "2012-12-26T20:03:39Z")
I remember my latin teacher in HS telling me that sometimes XIIII would be used because it’s easier to carve than XIV and that the rules are flexible regarding the IX/IV, VIIII/IIII rules. So no, not flogged but it’d be like someone writing “Lite” and “Nite” instead of “Light” or “Night”. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rules-for-writing-roman-numerals/645205/7 "2012-12-26T20:16:42Z")
From the trivia desk: Most clocks with Roman numerals show IIII for 4-o’clock. An exception is Big Ben in London, which uses IV. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rules-for-writing-roman-numerals/645205/8 "2012-12-26T20:54:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Cecil replies: > > Peter, what we need is a good utility to get this mess cleaned up. > > You prove my point–there is no universally accepted method for writing Roman numerals. > **[What is the proper way to style Roman numerals for the 1990s?](https://www.straightdope.com/21342518/what-is-the-proper-way-to-style-roman-numerals-for-the-1990s)** (Which is referenced in: [Roman numerals - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_numerals) ) ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rules-for-writing-roman-numerals/645205/9 "2012-12-26T21:30:08Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > From the trivia desk: > > Most clocks with Roman numerals show IIII for 4-o’clock. An exception is Big Ben in London, which uses IV. For the record, [here’s Cecil’s take on that classic conundrum…](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/438/why-do-clocks-with-roman-numerals-use-iiii-instead-of-iv) ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rules-for-writing-roman-numerals/645205/10 "2012-12-27T03:34:04Z")
What is the preferred way to write 505? ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rules-for-writing-roman-numerals/645205/11 "2012-12-27T03:39:31Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > What is the preferred way to write 505? In modern Roman numerals? It would be DV, though CCCCCV would be a common alternate form. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rules-for-writing-roman-numerals/645205/12 "2012-12-27T07:10:55Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > Sorry **Nava**. I meant to write XIIII and XIV-- both 14. My eyesight isn’t what it used to be (and it wasn’t much to begin with). Yeah, but like **Red** said, it’s a perfect example of why the IV version would be preferred 🙂 It’s a very easy mistake to make. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rules-for-writing-roman-numerals/645205/13 "2012-12-27T09:15:32Z")
What I have always wondered is how did they say these numbers, “From the Coliseum its **Lions** Ex Ex Ex Vee Eye Eye Eye, **Christians** Vee Eye Eye?” ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rules-for-writing-roman-numerals/645205/14 "2012-12-27T09:49:24Z")
The National Football League in the United States uses Roman numerals instead of Arabic numbers or years to denote its Super Bowl championship game. Super Bowl L (50) is scheduled to take place in 2016, and there have been [calls](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204652904577197312698087518.html) to change the name to “Super Bowl 50” because of the negative connotations of the letter “L”, frequently held up on one’s forehead in the U.S. as if to say, “Loooooser!” ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rules-for-writing-roman-numerals/645205/15 "2012-12-27T10:01:22Z")
There used to be, and maybe still is, a convention for TV series to write their year of production at the end of the credits in Roman Numerals. In 1990 they used MXM = 1000 + (1000 - 10) = 1990, but the actual standard convention was supposed to be MCMXC = 1000 + (1000 - 100) + (100 - 10) = 1990 ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rules-for-writing-roman-numerals/645205/16 "2012-12-27T10:43:42Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > There used to be, and maybe still is, a convention for TV series to write their year of production at the end of the credits in Roman Numerals. In 1990 they used MXM = 1000 + (1000 - 10) = 1990, but the actual standard convention was supposed to be MCMXC = 1000 + (1000 - 100) + (100 - 10) = 1990 British TV shows still use Roman numerals, and through the 1990s they used MCMXC, MCMXCI, MCMXCII and so on up to MCMXCIX for 1999. Never MXM for 1990, or MIM for 1999. Actually I did notice the other day when watching a repeat of _Father Ted_ that they messed up and gave the date as MXMXCVI, rather than MCMXCVI. So instead of 1996 it was apparently made in, um, (1000) + (1000-10) + (100-10) + (5+1), or 2086. Someone else obviously [noticed](http://twitpic.com/1unhys/full), too. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rules-for-writing-roman-numerals/645205/17 "2012-12-27T10:43:59Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > What I have always wondered is how did they say these numbers, “From the Coliseum its **Lions** Ex Ex Ex Vee Eye Eye Eye, **Christians** Vee Eye Eye?” Lions triginta octo, Christians septum ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rules-for-writing-roman-numerals/645205/18 "2012-12-27T11:21:28Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > British TV shows still use Roman numerals, and through the 1990s they used MCMXC, MCMXCI, MCMXCII and so on up to MCMXCIX for 1999. Never MXM for 1990, or MIM for 1999. Fair enough. I remember noticing it, but it was in New Zealand, so may have been for NZ shows only, and was very soon after January 1st so perhaps they quickly corrected the error. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rules-for-writing-roman-numerals/645205/19 "2012-12-27T16:36:12Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > In modern Roman numerals? It would be DV, though CCCCCV would be a common alternate form. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![YourAdHere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/65b543/32.png) [@YourAdHere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YourAdHere)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rules-for-writing-roman-numerals/645205/20 "2012-12-27T16:45:51Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > Lions triginta octo, Christians septum Septem [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rules-for-writing-roman-numerals/645205.md?page=2)