# The Run to Super Bowl Licks (LIX). 2024 NFL playoffs **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** football-nfl\ **Created:** [December 9, 2024, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-run-to-super-bowl-licks-lix-2024-nfl-playoffs/1011410 "2024-12-09T18:14:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![jnglmassiv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f07891/32.png) [@jnglmassiv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jnglmassiv)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2025, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-run-to-super-bowl-licks-lix-2024-nfl-playoffs/1011410/361 "2025-01-27T15:56:21Z")
I don’t want points awarded for errors made during good faith, good effort plays like we saw yesterday. But we could still have fun. Maybe something like the penalized team loses a player at the position after, say, a third presnap penalty. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2025, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-run-to-super-bowl-licks-lix-2024-nfl-playoffs/1011410/362 "2025-01-27T15:56:46Z")
Me too. I was like… “Come on, just one more time…” ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2025, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-run-to-super-bowl-licks-lix-2024-nfl-playoffs/1011410/363 "2025-01-27T16:27:03Z")
So what makes this situation _palpably unfair_? Intentional fouls are used plenty of times to prevent scoring and make the offense take another attempt near the goal line. This is how the rules work. Has this rule ever been used before? ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2025, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-run-to-super-bowl-licks-lix-2024-nfl-playoffs/1011410/364 "2025-01-27T16:40:38Z")
The rule is for repeated fouls to prevent a score. Once is fine, but eventually the refs have to take an approach other than yardage. If you jump over the O-line every time and the result is either an offside penalty or the offense loses a couple yards, eventually you will force 4th down. Once they’re inside the 1, there isn’t really any disincentive to jump it every time unless there’s a bigger threat than moving it another inch forward. Pass interference is the most common intentional foul to prevent scoring. I’ll bet if the defense committed 3 or 4 obvious interferences in a row, the refs would also consider awarding a TD. But I’ve never seen it actually happen, and I’d think if it had, it would be mentioned in all the articles about it today. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2025, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-run-to-super-bowl-licks-lix-2024-nfl-playoffs/1011410/365 "2025-01-27T16:48:42Z")
It is pretty rare. Goaltending a field goal attempt (standing under the crossbar and trying to knock the ball out) tended to be a more common example until recently. But it’s deliberately vague for a reason. If a team is flagrantly and obviously breaking rules, especially in such a way that the usual penalty is meaningless, the officials have wide latitude in assessing penalties, which could be limited to yardage but could include awarding points. If you put down specific examples and situations, it’s obvious some teams would try to rules-lawyer, so it’s left to the discretion of the officials. Repeatedly going offside or encroaching at the goal line is a good example - half the distance to the goal is effectively a meaningless penalty, so why not just draw it multiple times if it improves your chances of a stop? And since officials are generally professional about not trying to personally influence the games, they are loathe to call it, which is why the league office gave officials a reminder this season about exactly this sort of situation (goal line, multiple infractions by the defense). ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2025, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-run-to-super-bowl-licks-lix-2024-nfl-playoffs/1011410/366 "2025-01-27T17:09:47Z")
Luvu had a sack earlier in the drive using that exact same strategy. I remember thinking “holy crap, where did _that_ guy come from?” because it seemed like he was on the QB as soon as the ball was snapped. So I guess he thought it was a good idea to try it again on the goal line stand. But if you get called for it, _you don’t keep doing it!_ ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2025, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-run-to-super-bowl-licks-lix-2024-nfl-playoffs/1011410/367 "2025-01-27T17:11:47Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Repeatedly going offside or encroaching at the goal line is a good example - half the distance to the goal is effectively a meaningless penalty, so why not just draw it multiple times if it improves your chances of a stop? This case is a little different. Interference and holding penalties result in an automatic first down so the offense would never run out of attempts to score based on repeated instances of those. Encroachment near the goal line only results in meaningless movement of the line of scrimmage so the offense could eventually use up their downs on failed attempts. Making them repeat forever is unfair. It’s also called immediately, even before the snap so the offense doesn’t even get an attempt to score each time and decline the penalty if they succeed. I understand how this is considered unfair, but it’s also based on the rules. Some more clearly stated rule is needed with guidelines for the refs so if they must some day award points based on penalties it doesn’t look so much like they are interfering with the game and the defense has a clear incentive to knock it off. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2025, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-run-to-super-bowl-licks-lix-2024-nfl-playoffs/1011410/368 "2025-01-27T17:32:22Z")
The rule is most often mentioned at the possibility of someone coming off the sidelines to tackle a runner or returnerwho has broken away and will otherwise obviously score. It _should_ have been called in Mike Tomlin in 2013, for example. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2025, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-run-to-super-bowl-licks-lix-2024-nfl-playoffs/1011410/369 "2025-01-27T18:01:33Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > so the offense would never run out of attempts to score based on repeated instances of those. If not for the “game cannot end on a defensive foul” rule, they could run out of game. As it is, they could run out of clock, but untimed downs are a thing. I wonder how many untimed end-of-game downs is the record for a single NFL game? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Greenjeans](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.greenjeans/32/551_2.png) [@Mr.Greenjeans](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Greenjeans)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2025, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-run-to-super-bowl-licks-lix-2024-nfl-playoffs/1011410/370 "2025-01-27T18:01:38Z")
> [@jnglmassiv](#): > > I don’t want points awarded for errors made during good faith, good effort plays like we saw yesterday. Good faith? Good effort? Luvu is punk who tried and failed to jump the snap count. Somehow he found a way to swing an arm down on Hurts during one of his encroachments. That was unsportsmanlike conduct from the get-go, but that’s most of Luvu’s game. He’s obviously trying to generate injuries. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2025, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-run-to-super-bowl-licks-lix-2024-nfl-playoffs/1011410/371 "2025-01-27T18:49:51Z")
that was my thinking. he was trying to hurt the qb. he kept landing on him and swinging his arms. pile driving was my thought on the first penalty. penalties 2-4 just made that really clear. he was aiming for the qb. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2025, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-run-to-super-bowl-licks-lix-2024-nfl-playoffs/1011410/372 "2025-01-27T18:55:07Z")
> [@rocking\_chair](#): > > he was aiming for the qb. To be more specific, he was aiming for the hike. I’m not sure how you could classify that a “piledriver”, though. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2025, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-run-to-super-bowl-licks-lix-2024-nfl-playoffs/1011410/373 "2025-01-27T18:55:08Z")
On the first penalty at the goal line when Luvu jumped the OL, I could see the center stand up with a grin on his face, it looked like he was laughing to me. Like, “What a dipshit, did he just do that?!” It probably got less funny when it was repeated. ---
**Author:** ![RayMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e495f1/32.png) [@RayMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RayMan)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2025, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-run-to-super-bowl-licks-lix-2024-nfl-playoffs/1011410/374 "2025-01-27T18:58:25Z")
I was unsure what you were referencing, so I Googled it and found a YouTube video of the play in question. Thanks for relating the incident, I wasn’t aware of it. Not only is Tomlin standing on the field when he shouldn’t be, but he is also very clearly not looking at the play taking place on the field! (To be fair, he may have been trying to watch the play on the Jumbotron.) In my opinion, had Jones run into Tomlin and fallen down, the fair result would be to award Baltimore a touchdown. Here’s a YouTube video of the play in question: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/0NpzVqPvfFU/maxresdefault.jpg "Jacoby Jones dodges Mike Tomlin on kickoff return (2013)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NpzVqPvfFU) ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2025, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-run-to-super-bowl-licks-lix-2024-nfl-playoffs/1011410/375 "2025-01-27T19:01:17Z")
i saw it more as he was aiming for the qb and trying to drive him into the ground. the first one i’d see as aiming for the hike. 2-4 that looked more like qb aiming. they kept landing on or at the qb. just my opinion. i still remember the mcmahon bodyslam, so it is possible that i see this through that lens. yes, the first one i believe everyone laughed off. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2025, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-run-to-super-bowl-licks-lix-2024-nfl-playoffs/1011410/376 "2025-01-27T19:03:30Z")
> [@rocking\_chair](#): > > i saw it more as he was aiming for the qb and trying to drive him into the ground. I think that’s fair - it’s certainly an attempt to time the play to tackle the QB at the exact moment of the handoff/hike. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2025, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-run-to-super-bowl-licks-lix-2024-nfl-playoffs/1011410/377 "2025-01-27T19:05:43Z")
sure, mess up the handoff, force a fumble. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2025, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-run-to-super-bowl-licks-lix-2024-nfl-playoffs/1011410/378 "2025-01-27T19:24:19Z")
In the later game, when the Eagles kept stopping the short yardage situations that had been gimmes all year – near unstoppable – Brady kept saying how the only way to stop the Bills doing the push is to time it exactly at the snap. That definitely reminded me of Luvu repeatedly jumping the count. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2025, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-run-to-super-bowl-licks-lix-2024-nfl-playoffs/1011410/379 "2025-01-27T19:26:30Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Brady kept saying how the only way to stop the Bills doing the push is to time it exactly at the snap. That definitely reminded me of Luvu repeatedly jumping the count. Same here. It was like Luvu was doing exactly what Brady said had to be done. …He was just doing it very wrong, and repeating it. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2025, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-run-to-super-bowl-licks-lix-2024-nfl-playoffs/1011410/380 "2025-01-27T19:32:16Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > In the later game, when the Eagles kept stopping the short yardage situations that had been gimmes all year – near unstoppable Assume you mean the Chiefs? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-run-to-super-bowl-licks-lix-2024-nfl-playoffs/1011410.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-run-to-super-bowl-licks-lix-2024-nfl-playoffs/1011410.md?page=20)