# The "Salvador Option" for the Iraq insurgency: Train death squads to kill the leaders **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 10, 2005, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-salvador-option-for-the-iraq-insurgency-train-death-squads-to-kill-the-leaders/283969 "2005-01-10T01:27:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-salvador-option-for-the-iraq-insurgency-train-death-squads-to-kill-the-leaders/283969/81 "2005-01-11T17:35:02Z")
> [@Rufus Xavier](#): > > And since, in El Salvador, it was Catholics getting massacred and no one ‘gave a shit’, There was \*some \* shit given when those American nuns were kidnapped and executed there, but generally you’re right - out of sight, out of mind. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-salvador-option-for-the-iraq-insurgency-train-death-squads-to-kill-the-leaders/283969/82 "2005-01-11T18:49:15Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > … this insurgency isn’t well supported by the locals, but rather feared by them, … And you “know” this is true because … the Bush administration told you? The same Bush Admin that knew the WMDs were in Iraq and we’d be welcomed as liberators with dancing in the street? ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-salvador-option-for-the-iraq-insurgency-train-death-squads-to-kill-the-leaders/283969/83 "2005-01-11T19:46:16Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > And you “know” this is true because … the Bush administration told you? The same Bush Admin that knew the WMDs were in Iraq and we’d be welcomed as liberators with dancing in the street? And I should take what you say because what? You dislike Bush? Sorry guys, but not everything that comes from Iraq is aload of B.S anyway, I read about that from an _Iraqi_ point of view. Sorry to dissapoint 🙂 > [@](#): > > Well, sure, Ryan, its worked so well for the Isrealis. Take out a militant Palestinian leader, albeit sloppily in terms of collateral corpses, and presto! instant peace and groveling compliance. I don’t see how its going to be groveiling compliance, besides, you talk as if they has legitimate political complaints, they don’t its the same old rubbish, different clothing, its all about power grabbing and because they kill and maim they’ve come to a point where there leaders get executed. Couldn’t happen to anyone better. > [@](#): > > Look, Ryan, one thing there never is a shortage of is leaders. Would that there were, but there isn’t. But effective ones there is. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-salvador-option-for-the-iraq-insurgency-train-death-squads-to-kill-the-leaders/283969/84 "2005-01-11T19:54:11Z")
The problem is that the Iraqis have learned some real lessons from us - like that guns are more important than laws in ruling a country. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-salvador-option-for-the-iraq-insurgency-train-death-squads-to-kill-the-leaders/283969/85 "2005-01-11T20:34:20Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > The problem is that the Iraqis have learned some real lessons from us - like that guns are more important than laws in ruling a country. So they didn’t learn that from the Baa’thists? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-salvador-option-for-the-iraq-insurgency-train-death-squads-to-kill-the-leaders/283969/86 "2005-01-11T21:08:45Z")
The Baa’thists weren’t hypocrites about it. We’re the ones telling the Iraqis we want them to have sovereignty - while we occupy their country. We’re the ones telling the Iraqis we want them to have a democratic government - as long as they don’t vote for anyone we don’t like. We’re the ones telling the Iraqis we want them to have the rule of law - as we torture prisoners and train assassins. We’re the ones telling the Iraqis how terrible Saddam’s military build-up was - while we’re using our own military superiority to get our way. I’m not defending the insurgents and I don’t want them to win. But if we’re going to fight them we can’t use their own weapons against them. If we allow this conflict to degenerate into who can be more cruel, they’re going to win. We need to bring our strengths into this fight. We need to start rebuilding Iraq. We need to start showing the Iraqi people that we respect the law and follow it even though we have the power to ignore it. We need to show the Iraqi people that that a democratic government can work. If we do this then the insurgents will lose because the Iraqis will reject their message. ---
**Author:** ![Puffs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c77e96/32.png) [@Puffs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Puffs)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-salvador-option-for-the-iraq-insurgency-train-death-squads-to-kill-the-leaders/283969/87 "2005-01-12T02:43:17Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > The Baa’thists weren’t hypocrites about it. We’re the ones telling the Iraqis we want them to have sovereignty - while we occupy their country. We’re the ones telling the Iraqis we want them to have a democratic government - **as long as they don’t vote for anyone we don’t like.** Got a cite for my bolding? > [@Little Nemo](#): > > We’re the ones telling the Iraqis we want them to have the rule of law - as we torture prisoners and train assassins. . The prison torture issue is being handled by the law.Training assassins have nothing to do with the law. > [@Little Nemo](#): > > I’m not defending the insurgents and I don’t want them to win. But if we’re going to fight them we can’t use their own weapons against them. If we allow this conflict to degenerate into who can be more cruel, they’re going to win. We need to bring our strengths into this fight. We need to start rebuilding Iraq. We need to start showing the Iraqi people that we respect the law and follow it even though we have the power to ignore it. We need to show the Iraqi people that that a democratic government can work. If we do this then the insurgents will lose because the Iraqis will reject their message. I agree. So tell me how we go about rebuilding Iraq and helping them form a democracy without dealing with the insurgents who do everything they can to stop the rebuilding and the forming of a democracy? And how do we do the same without “occupation” until the new government can defend themsleves? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-salvador-option-for-the-iraq-insurgency-train-death-squads-to-kill-the-leaders/283969/88 "2005-01-12T05:54:10Z")
Hmm. My earlier mention of Turkey and reading this[article on Turkey/Iraqi/American talks](http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=10&categ_id=2&article_id=11745) regarding military solutions to the PKK got me thinking: Has anyone heard Turkish reaction to training Kurdish kidnap/assassination squads? I don’t imagine positive. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-salvador-option-for-the-iraq-insurgency-train-death-squads-to-kill-the-leaders/283969/89 "2005-01-13T01:03:29Z")
> [@Puffs](#): > > Training assassins have nothing to do with the law. True. What’s your point? ---
**Author:** ![Puffs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c77e96/32.png) [@Puffs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Puffs)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-salvador-option-for-the-iraq-insurgency-train-death-squads-to-kill-the-leaders/283969/90 "2005-01-13T03:45:19Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > True. What’s your point? If you would read what I quoted right above it you may be able to figure it out. Just let me know if you still need help. ---
**Author:** ![Jake\_the\_Plumber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@Jake\_the\_Plumber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jake_the_Plumber)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-salvador-option-for-the-iraq-insurgency-train-death-squads-to-kill-the-leaders/283969/91 "2005-01-13T04:34:42Z")
> [@Puffs](#): > > The prison torture issue is being handled by the law.Training assassins have nothing to do with the law. Not technically, no, because no laws exist between nations unless they make a treaty about it. But there is law’s little step-brother they keep locked up in the basement called “ethics” “It’s important for you boys and girls to know that we’re fighting evil with good.” Does training assassination squads fall into the classification of “good”? Or have we learned nothing from our little South America/Africa operations no one is supposed to talk about? ---
**Author:** ![Jake\_the\_Plumber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@Jake\_the\_Plumber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jake_the_Plumber)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-salvador-option-for-the-iraq-insurgency-train-death-squads-to-kill-the-leaders/283969/92 "2005-01-13T04:35:48Z")
> [@Jake the Plumber](#): > > Not technically, no, because no laws exist between nations unless they make a treaty about it. But there is law’s little step-brother they keep locked up in the basement called “ethics” > > “It’s important for you boys and girls to know that we’re fighting evil with good.” > > Does training assassination squads fall into the classification of “good”? Or have we learned nothing from our little South America/Africa operations no one is supposed to talk about? Oh, that line about fighting evil with good comes straight from Dear Leader Himself. ---
**Author:** ![Puffs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c77e96/32.png) [@Puffs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Puffs)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-salvador-option-for-the-iraq-insurgency-train-death-squads-to-kill-the-leaders/283969/93 "2005-01-13T05:20:33Z")
> [@Jake the Plumber](#): > > Does training assassination squads fall into the classification of “good”? In some cases, sure. I thoink it would be awesome, and good, if a seal team was able to sneak into a hut and cut Zarqawi’s or Bin Ladens throat. And be able to do the same for every radical without the hindsight to take his place. I would personally prefer using a dull knife and slow decapitation method. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-salvador-option-for-the-iraq-insurgency-train-death-squads-to-kill-the-leaders/283969/94 "2005-01-13T05:57:13Z")
> [@Puffs](#): > > In some cases, sure. I thoink it would be awesome, and good, if a seal team was able to sneak into a hut and cut Zarqawi’s or Bin Ladens throat. Bin Who? ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-salvador-option-for-the-iraq-insurgency-train-death-squads-to-kill-the-leaders/283969/95 "2005-01-13T15:55:48Z")
> [@Puffs](#): > > In some cases, sure. I thoink it would be awesome, and good, if a seal team was able to sneak into a hut and cut Zarqawi’s or Bin Ladens throat. And be able to do the same for every radical without the hindsight to take his place. I would personally prefer using a dull knife and slow decapitation method. I think so, too. But that’s not what we’re talking about here. The SEAL team can be relied upon to follow orders and complete the job as professionally as can be expected. However, what the administration is apparently talking about is doing it on the El Salvador model. Organizing and training groups of semi-professional (in the sense they are being paid), mercenary thugs to take out anyone even suspected of sympathizing with any sort of opposition - peaceful or not. Rape and torture will be used, whether the person is innocent or not. Frankly, it’s a completely despicable proposal. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-salvador-option-for-the-iraq-insurgency-train-death-squads-to-kill-the-leaders/283969/96 "2005-01-13T16:10:53Z")
Are those suggesting that Kurds be recruited to assassinate Sunnis under the impression that getting one ethnic group to kill another is a good way to _prevent_ an ethnic civil war from breaking out? ---
**Author:** ![Puffs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c77e96/32.png) [@Puffs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Puffs)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-salvador-option-for-the-iraq-insurgency-train-death-squads-to-kill-the-leaders/283969/97 "2005-01-13T17:21:37Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > Organizing and training groups of semi-professional (in the sense they are being paid), mercenary thugs to take out anyone even suspected of sympathizing with any sort of opposition - peaceful or not. Rape and torture will be used, whether the person is innocent or not. Frankly, it’s a completely despicable proposal. I agree ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-salvador-option-for-the-iraq-insurgency-train-death-squads-to-kill-the-leaders/283969/98 "2005-01-13T20:47:04Z")
So, if these “elite hit squads” somehow got a _little_ too rowdy and did something stupid – like, oh, I dunno, blowing up a school bus full of children or raping a bunch’a nuns – would the US take any responsibility for having set those nutjobs loose in the first place? Or would we simply call them “insurgents” and request another $80 million to fight 'em? ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-salvador-option-for-the-iraq-insurgency-train-death-squads-to-kill-the-leaders/283969/99 "2005-01-13T21:58:37Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > of bounty system, yes? Whats to stop Abdul from going out and snuffing goat-farmer Achmed, stuffing his head in a bag and walking it into the office. “Here. Achmed. Big time Al Queda terrorist. Write me check.” > > Dragnet music. Dumb-da-dumb-dumb. Dumb-da-dumb-dumb-_dumb!_ too late. Abdul already sold Achmed out for the Gitmo bounty, and he’s still there… ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-salvador-option-for-the-iraq-insurgency-train-death-squads-to-kill-the-leaders/283969/100 "2005-01-13T22:05:03Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > So, if these “elite hit squads” somehow got a _little_ too rowdy and did something stupid – like, oh, I dunno, blowing up a school bus full of children or raping a bunch’a nuns – would the US take any responsibility for having set those nutjobs loose in the first place? > > Or would we simply call them “insurgents” and request another $80 million to fight 'em? Didn’t Allawi already blow up a bus, albeit not full of kids? Back in the early 90’s, I think. I will be back with google loot in a flash… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-salvador-option-for-the-iraq-insurgency-train-death-squads-to-kill-the-leaders/283969.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-salvador-option-for-the-iraq-insurgency-train-death-squads-to-kill-the-leaders/283969.md?page=6)