# The Salvation Army - Bunch of unethical, holier-than-thou ASSHOLES **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 6, 2002, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-salvation-army-bunch-of-unethical-holier-than-thou-assholes/131059 "2002-10-06T11:48:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Omnipresent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8c91f0/32.png) [@Omnipresent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omnipresent)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2002, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-salvation-army-bunch-of-unethical-holier-than-thou-assholes/131059/1 "2002-10-06T11:48:28Z")
They’ve got everyone fooled into thinking they’re doing God’s work. BULLSHIT. They hide behind “non-profit” status and are operating tax free because of it. MORE BULLSHIT. They’ve got money. A LOT of it. You think it’s going to the hungry and downtrodden? Think again. Every officer in the Salvation Army is set up with a house and car. Their kid’s college education is paid in full. All travel (and there’s a lot of it) covered. Next time you drop a buck into a kettle, just remember, it ISN’T going where you think it is. Just be nice to someone during the holiday season. It’ll do MUCH more good than that dollar will do with The Salvation Army!!! ---
**Author:** ![Skip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@Skip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skip)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2002, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-salvation-army-bunch-of-unethical-holier-than-thou-assholes/131059/2 "2002-10-06T12:15:26Z")
uh… cite? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2002, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-salvation-army-bunch-of-unethical-holier-than-thou-assholes/131059/3 "2002-10-06T13:07:53Z")
> [@](#): > > STATISTICAL HIGHLIGHTS, FISCAL YEAR ENDED SEPTEMBER 30, 2001 > Substance Abuse Rehabilitation                                     203,301 > Medical Care                                                                   131,251 > Tranportation Provided                                                   500,423 > Missing Persons                                                              65,816 > Meals Served                                                                  57,769,930 > Lodging Supplied                                                            10,008,055 > Welfare Orders - Cash Grants                                        7,180,879 > Tangible Items Distributed - Clothes, Furniture, Gifts     18,246,840 I hear they’re changing the name to \*\*[Evildoers Incarnate](http://www.salvationarmyusa.org/www_usn.nsf/vw_dynamic_arrays/C890CDB14126F4BB80256B800035165E?openDocument) \*\* 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2002, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-salvation-army-bunch-of-unethical-holier-than-thou-assholes/131059/4 "2002-10-06T13:25:21Z")
As a social liberal who disagrees with their religious dogma, I have to say SA does wonderful work in society. I have gone so far as to volunteer for them in the past, and spent a number of years in their “Healthcare for the Homeless” project. Money diverted from SA is money diverted from the healthcare project which truly does serve the neediest of the needy in this country. As for their lifestyle, well frankly, it appears to be even more service-oriented than the Mormons. QtM, MD ---
**Author:** ![Xploder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/a183cd/32.png) [@Xploder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xploder)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2002, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-salvation-army-bunch-of-unethical-holier-than-thou-assholes/131059/5 "2002-10-06T13:35:57Z")
Y’know, I think that **Frank Zappa** said it best: “Tax the churches. Tax the businesses owned by the churches.” I’d sure as hell like that better than having **my** taxes raised all the time. ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2002, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-salvation-army-bunch-of-unethical-holier-than-thou-assholes/131059/6 "2002-10-06T13:47:18Z")
Hmmm. I’d much rather see fervent spouting of vitriole against a church _with hard facts and cites_, than what I’ve seen in th’ OP. Bad form, **Omnipresent**. ---
**Author:** ![Omnipresent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8c91f0/32.png) [@Omnipresent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omnipresent)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2002, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-salvation-army-bunch-of-unethical-holier-than-thou-assholes/131059/7 "2002-10-06T15:09:24Z")
Can’t give you a cite Ice, just knowledge from the inside. That’ll have to do. ---
**Author:** ![Skip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@Skip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skip)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2002, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-salvation-army-bunch-of-unethical-holier-than-thou-assholes/131059/8 "2002-10-06T15:18:10Z")
Actually, no, that’s not going to do. ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2002, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-salvation-army-bunch-of-unethical-holier-than-thou-assholes/131059/9 "2002-10-06T15:18:36Z")
I’m afraid it won’t do, **Omnipresent** , any more than all of those horrible, sensationalist books about ex-“Satanists” or supposedly ex-(Mormons, Jesuits, or name other hated religious group here)s prove anything. ---
**Author:** ![Heloise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e36b37/32.png) [@Heloise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heloise)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2002, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-salvation-army-bunch-of-unethical-holier-than-thou-assholes/131059/10 "2002-10-06T18:01:11Z")
Considering that my Mom worked with the SA for some time, was helped by them, and saw people helped by them, I’d have to see you’re either an idiot, a liar, or you had a personal bad experience with a particular person(s) and have decided to blame the entire organization for it. Since you haven’t really given any details or background for your tripe, you have left it up to us to decide. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2002, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-salvation-army-bunch-of-unethical-holier-than-thou-assholes/131059/11 "2002-10-06T18:25:45Z")
The Salvation Army paid my electricity deposit in the winter of 1990 when I was out of work and had lived for a month and a half without electricity (in an all electric apartment). ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2002, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-salvation-army-bunch-of-unethical-holier-than-thou-assholes/131059/12 "2002-10-06T18:42:55Z")
I spent some time volunteering for the Salvation Army in high school. I don’t know what they do with their money, but I know a lot of needy people are provided with food and personal hygiene products by the Salvation Army. They’ve done a lot to help people. Maybe they could be doing more, I don’t know, but they’re already doing more than a lot of other groups. ---
**Author:** ![LolaCocaCola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7cd45c/32.png) [@LolaCocaCola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LolaCocaCola)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2002, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-salvation-army-bunch-of-unethical-holier-than-thou-assholes/131059/13 "2002-10-06T19:10:07Z")
Heh. I guess I’m just a little amused that a self-admitted kleptomaniac is calling the Salvation Army [unethical.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=138038) ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2002, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-salvation-army-bunch-of-unethical-holier-than-thou-assholes/131059/14 "2002-10-06T21:35:32Z")
What a dumbass OP. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > \*\*Every officer in the Salvation Army is set up with a house and car. Their kid’s college education is paid in full. All travel (and there’s a lot of it) covered. \*\* Well, BFD. :rolleyes: This is true of most Protestant denominations–the pastor is supplied with a house, called a “parsonage”, or sometimes the church will assist him by loaning him the money to buy a house, and his car is used for church business, so he gets mileage, and the pastor’s kids usually get full scholarships to the denomination’s colleges. > [@](#): > > \*\*Next time you drop a buck into a kettle, just remember, it ISN’T going where you think it is. \*\* How about some actual facts? The Better Business Bureau says it’s okay to give money to them–[financial statements.](http://www.give.org/reports/sa.asp) Notice the pie chart at the bottom–“Use of funds as a % of total income”. > [@](#): > > _The Salvation Army - National Headquarters (SANH) meets the CBBB Standards for Charitable Solicitations._ The CBBB standards. [http://www.give.org/standards/cbbbstds.asp](http://www.give.org/standards/cbbbstds.asp) The BBB has a huge report on the [American Red Cross](http://www.give.org/reports/arc.asp) and the questions that were raised about their 9/11 donations–but…strange, I don’t see anything like that for the Salvation Army. Or is the Better Business Bureau just in cahoots with them? Or maybe they’re just waiting for you to blow the whistle? :rolleyes: Next time you drop a buck into a kettle, remember that 64 to 76 cents of it is going directly to programs. This is about the same percentage as all the other major charities, like the March of Dimes, MADD, the Muscular Dystrophy Association, the NAACP, the Sierra Club, etc. Next time you donate a buck to the [Humane Society](http://www.give.org/reports/hsus.asp), remember that only 54 cents of it is going for programs. Next time you donate a buck to the [Jewish National Fund,](http://www.give.org/reports/jnf.asp) remember that only 52 cents of it is going for programs. Next time you donate a buck to [Amnesty International](http://www.give.org/reports/amnesty.asp), remember that only 50 cents of it is going for programs. Next time you donate a buck to the [Michael J. Fox Foundation for Parkinson’s Research](http://www.give.org/reports/mjffpr.asp), remember that only 37 cents of it is going for programs. Next time you donate a buck to [Catholic Charities USA,](http://www.give.org/reports/ccusa.asp) remember that only 26 cents of it is going for programs. Oh, and by the way… [Salvation Army on stand-by as Gulf Coast residents prepare for Hurricane Lili](http://www.usc.salvationarmy.org/www_usc.nsf/vw_news/4E8556242ECA159E86256C46006E97E1?opendocument) [Salvation Army offers assistance after Tropical Storm Isidore makes landfall](http://www.usc.salvationarmy.org/www_usc.nsf/vw_news/3F7E60A2CAFA20B086256C4100576BE2?opendocument) [Salvation Army continues aid in Indiana after strong storms cause major damage](http://www.usc.salvationarmy.org/www_usc.nsf/vw_news/F71CF0202A52ACD086256C400050D1EB?opendocument) And that’s just the American Central Region, for the last month. Pick a spot in the world. [http://www1.salvationarmy.org/](http://www1.salvationarmy.org/) How about New York City, September 11, 2001? > [@](#): > > [The Salvation Army on Site at Trade Center and Pittsburgh Disaster Sites](http://www.salvationarmy-usaeast.org/cgi-bin/database/db.cgi?db=news3&uid=default&Body=WTC+Disaster+release&sb=1&so=descend&view_records=View+Records&nh=51&mh=1) > > Hundreds of Workers On-Call Throughout Eastern U.S. and Canada > NEW YORK, NY, Sept. 11, 2001 > > Statement by Commissioner Joe Noland, Territorial Commander, The Salvation Army, Eastern United States, On U.S. Terrorist Attacks > > "The Salvation Army’s emergency food and aid vehicles and personnel have been on-site at the World Trade Center area since 10:30 a.m. ET this morning assisting victims and emergency personnel. Additionally, mobile emergency centers are at the plane crash site in Somerset County, Penn., and every Salvation Army emergency canteen, along with hundreds of counselors and social workers throughout the north eastern United States and Canada, are on call to serve victims, families, friends, and rescue workers 24 hours a day. > [@](#): > > [SALVATION ARMY SERVICE CONTINUES FOR SEPTEMBER 11 VICTIMS MORE THAN 121,000 PEOPLE ASSISTED TO DATE](http://www.salvationarmy-usaeast.org/cgi-bin/database/db.cgi?db=news3&uid=default&Body=WTC+Disaster+release&sb=1&so=descend&view_records=View+Records&nh=2&mh=1) > > Alexandria, VA, August 19, 2002 — According to recently released statistics, The Salvation Army assisted more than 121,000 people in the almost one year since the September 11 terrorist attacks, providing grief and mental health counseling, financial assistance, and other basic social services. In addition, Salvation Army officers, staff and 107,169 volunteers – clocking more than 1.6 million volunteer hours – served almost 5 million meals to relief workers and victims at disaster sites in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania. Although the work at the sites of the attacks has ended, The Salvation Army continues to serve those in need through its corps community centers in New York and around the country. > > The statistics also show that The Salvation Army has received nearly $88 million in donations for its September 11 relief work, and that to date, about $65 million has been spent on programs for those impacted physically, financially and emotionally. Primary services include financial aid to victims’ families and others whose livelihoods were impacted, and continued counseling for a variety of workers involved in the disaster aftermath and clean up. The Salvation Army estimates that the remaining $23 million will be spent by the end of 2003, according to a two-year spending plan developed by the Army in late 2001. Seems to me you could find worthier targets for your charity-hating spleen. ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2002, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-salvation-army-bunch-of-unethical-holier-than-thou-assholes/131059/15 "2002-10-06T23:30:43Z")
> [@](#): > > _Orig. by Omnipresent_ > Can’t give you a cite Ice, just knowledge from the inside. That’ll have to do. Whether or not you have the real gen, the can o’ worms just waiting to have the lid lifted – statements without evidence don’t carry far around here, **Omnipresent**. Sorry, but without some back-up hard facts to substantiate your claim, it cannot be accepted. Oh, and _applause_ to **DDG** , for showing you how it’s done. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-salvation-army-bunch-of-unethical-holier-than-thou-assholes/131059/16 "2002-10-07T01:39:32Z")
OK, I ignored everything to 50% for programs. But don’t these figures sound a little…I don’t know, “wrong” to anyone else? (not “incorrect”, but “wrong”, as in, “damn, that’s a lot of freaking overhead %”) > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose \* > \*\*Next time you donate a buck to the [Michael J. Fox Foundation for Parkinson’s Research](http://www.give.org/reports/mjffpr.asp), remember that only 37 cents of it is going for programs. > > Next time you donate a buck to [Catholic Charities USA,](http://www.give.org/reports/ccusa.asp) remember that only 26 cents of it is going for programs. > \*\* Nearly a 3:1 and nearly a 4:1 multiplier for a charity? That’s not good… 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Bob\_Scene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Bob\_Scene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bob_Scene)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-salvation-army-bunch-of-unethical-holier-than-thou-assholes/131059/17 "2002-10-07T02:03:14Z")
Oh, no! Oh, fucking no! You mean 3 cents worth of the money I spent on my used recliner might be going for some KID to get a COLLEGE EDUCATION? But I thought it was going to a GOOD cause! The horror! The horror! ---
**Author:** ![pricciar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@pricciar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pricciar)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-salvation-army-bunch-of-unethical-holier-than-thou-assholes/131059/18 "2002-10-07T02:07:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Anthracite \* > \*\*OK, I ignored everything to 50% for programs. But don’t these figures sound a little…I don’t know, “wrong” to anyone else? (not “incorrect”, but “wrong”, as in, “damn, that’s a lot of freaking overhead %”) > > Nearly a 3:1 and nearly a 4:1 multiplier for a charity? That’s not good… > > 😕 \*\* As far as Catholic Charities, they give an explanation for the low number on the BBB website. > [@](#): > > In reaching the conclusion that Catholic Charities USA meets the CBBB Standard calling for a reasonable percentage, at least 50%, of total income from all sources to be applied to programs and activities directly related to the purposes for which the organization exists, the Alliance considered the following, among other things: according to CCUSA, “$23.011million were received after September 11 to support September 11 recovery efforts” and “the money received at the end of 2001 is restricted by the donors for September 11 recovery efforts.” Catholic Charities USA’s 2000 audit report shows that it spent $9,696,266, or 26%, of total income ($37,210,328) on program service activities. If these figures are adjusted to exclude the September 11 restricted contributions, then Catholic Charities USA spent 68% of adjusted total income ($14,199,328) on program service expenses. So, the 9/11 contributions were being held for specific 9/11 causes. (I think there are a couple of typos in there, unless I am just misreading. “2000 audit report” should be “2001 audit report” and amount spent should be $9,686,266.) I am not sure about the Michael J. Fox organization. I guess they get a bye because it is such a new charity. They need to use funds to build a fundraising platform. In later years, they won’t get the same consideration. As far as 50% being a high overhead, I don’t really know enough about how charitable organizations work to really know. Perhaps they earmark funds for certain events in later years, so they are never surprised by a disaster or something. I guess it depends on the organization. Some of them don’ t need to spend as much on fund raising as others, so that migth be a consideration as well. I don’t really know enough to argue that point either way, though. Just some ideas. pat ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-salvation-army-bunch-of-unethical-holier-than-thou-assholes/131059/19 "2002-10-07T02:19:50Z")
In North America, “charitable organizations” are big business. They do good work, and I would never advocate not giving to charities, but do it with your eyes open. Your money does not all go to the people the charities help. Every charity in North America has presidents, vice presidents, boards, staff, rent, utilities, fund-raising costs, etc, etc, etc. I’ve worked on the front lines for soliciting charitable donations, and that’s just the world we live in. There are a lot of people in North America making a living working for non-profit organizations. I put myself through secretarial school working for one. ---
**Author:** ![miatachris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@miatachris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miatachris)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-salvation-army-bunch-of-unethical-holier-than-thou-assholes/131059/20 "2002-10-07T02:29:08Z")
I can say, without need of a cite, that if a disaster of some kind struck Omnipresent’s community, that the Salvation Army would be there and be available to help any and all who would need them. The Salvation Army is an excellent charity and is worthy of my personal support, which they have had in the past and will continue to have in the future. It is my firm belief that these people are an instrument of God himself. It’s hard to take money that you had to earn and give it, nearly blind, to a group that says that they’ll put it to good use. I urge people who wish to give but are undecided as to whom to consider the Salvation Army. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-salvation-army-bunch-of-unethical-holier-than-thou-assholes/131059.md?page=2)