# The same God? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 14, 2003, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-same-god/175099 "2003-05-14T01:30:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-same-god/175099/81 "2003-05-16T05:31:11Z")
You’re very welcome, Yllaria. It’s SciFi/Fantasy story, and it deals very well with the philosophical issue you raised in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![C.Johnson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ec9cab/32.png) [@C.Johnson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C.Johnson)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-same-god/175099/82 "2003-05-16T06:07:55Z")
Could we all worship the same God? Honestly, probably not. It seems as though human nature will find a way to follow the idea of “Go against the flow,” and “individuality.” Someone usually wants to do things differently. Not that it is a bad thing to be your own person, but it keeps peace from breaking out. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Goo\_Fee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Doctor\_Goo\_Fee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Goo_Fee)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-same-god/175099/83 "2003-05-16T07:25:59Z")
Idiots. Really. I really feel that way. Wake up. Remember nursery rhymes? From childhood? Do you go around talking about why Hansel and Gredel got eaten by the witch? Or talk about the mysticism behind Cinderella’s glass slipper? Of course not. Grow up. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Goo\_Fee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Doctor\_Goo\_Fee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Goo_Fee)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-same-god/175099/84 "2003-05-16T07:27:05Z")
Idiots. Really. I really feel that way. Wake up. Remember nursery rhymes? From childhood? Do you go around talking about why Hansel and Gretel got eaten by the witch? Or talk about the mysticism behind Cinderella’s glass slipper? Of course not. Grow up. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Goo\_Fee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Doctor\_Goo\_Fee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Goo_Fee)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-same-god/175099/85 "2003-05-16T07:32:53Z")
Idiots. Really. I really feel that way. Wake up. Remember nursery rhymes? From childhood? Do you go around talking about why Hansel and Gretel got eaten by the witch? Or talk about the mysticism behind Cinderella’s glass slipper? Of course not. Grow up. ---
**Author:** ![braces\_for\_impact](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/439d5e/32.png) [@braces\_for\_impact](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/braces_for_impact)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-same-god/175099/86 "2003-05-16T13:23:21Z")
Posted by Jojo > [@](#): > > Sit down children, uncle jojo’s gonna tell you a story. Well I give credit where credit is due. That was some _story._ Nothing more, nothing less. Getting back on the subject. Since in religion, the various gods always seem to have commands and wishes that are perfectly in tune with their worshiper’s goals, I would venture to say that no, they do not worship the same god. If they all worshiped the same god, who would be the heathen? Someone has to be the scapegoat. Doctor Goo Fee why don’t you take a valium or something? There certainly isn’t any required reading here that I’m aware of. People have debated philosophical questions like these for thousands of years, and I suspect will do so for some time to come. If you don’t enjoy it, then move on and find a topic you can appreciate. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-same-god/175099/87 "2003-05-16T13:28:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*Simon: Braces “gets to talk about” it because he merely asked you a question. Your answer was that not only did you not know anything about it but you could prove something about it. > \*\* I’m curious. Is the prohibition on discussing the Book of Mormon based on the idea that a Muslim wouldn’t find the Qur’an to be superior to the Book of Mormon? Or does it just irk you somehow that a Muslim would find the Qur’an to be superior to the Book of Mormon? ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-same-god/175099/88 "2003-05-16T13:33:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Doctor Goo Fee \* > \*\*Idiots. Really. I really feel that way. Wake up. Remember nursery rhymes? From childhood? Do you go around talking about why Hansel and Gredel got eaten by the witch? Or talk about the mysticism behind Cinderella’s glass slipper? Of course not. > > Grow up. \*\* However hard and unlikely it’d be to prove the positive that a god does exist, it would be even harder and more unlikely to prove the negative that a god does not exist. By believing that no god exists you are making an even greater leap of faith than theists. While I do appreciate being called an idiot, I’m not sure if the subject of religious belief is entirely analguous to Darth Vader’s undershorts. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-same-god/175099/89 "2003-05-16T13:39:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Doctor Goo Fee \* > \*\*Idiots. Really. I really feel that way. Wake up. Remember nursery rhymes? From childhood? Do you go around talking about why Hansel and Gredel got eaten by the witch? Or talk about the mysticism behind Cinderella’s glass slipper? Of course not. > > Grow up. \*\* Do you hassle the people in MPSIMS and Cafe Society who do talk about these various things that you have compared religious discussion to? ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-same-god/175099/90 "2003-05-16T13:44:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by braces\_for\_impact \* > \*\* > Since in religion, the various gods always seem to have commands and wishes that are perfectly in tune with their worshiper’s goals, I would venture to say that no, they do not worship the same god. If they all worshiped the same god, who would be the heathen? Someone has to be the scapegoat. > \*\* It seems more likely that some people are wrong than that averytime their is a some sort of a sectarian split a new god is created. ---
**Author:** ![Bibliovore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Bibliovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bibliovore)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-same-god/175099/91 "2003-05-16T13:58:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Doctor Goo Fee \* > \*\*Idiots. Really. I really feel that way. Wake up. Remember nursery rhymes? From childhood? Do you go around talking about why Hansel and Gretel got eaten by the witch? Or talk about the mysticism behind Cinderella’s glass slipper? Of course not. > > Grow up. \*\* **Dr Goo Fee** , While you may be utterly convinced that God does not exist, there are many others that are not so sure. Indeed, there are literally billions of people who _do_ believe in a God or Gods in some form or another. So if you believe that God is a fictional character, then let’s re-phrase the question posed by the OP in a form that you might find more palatable: “Is the fictional character worshipped by Muslims the same fictional character worshipped by Christians and Jews” I believe that the answer is “yes” for reasons already stated in my previous post. You may find such theological arguments to be inherently pointless and ridiculous, but the answer has huge effects in the tangible, practical world. Millions of people throught history have been willing to fight and die over the differrences between their faiths, and still are. If, through our theorising and debate, we can show that these three major faiths are more alike that is commonly believed, we may be helping to further understanding, fight ignorance, and improve the situation for all of us. If all three Abrahamic faiths do indeed all worship the same God, then they are as closely and fundamentally linked as three brothers. So no, I do not feel ashamed to be discussing this. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-same-god/175099/92 "2003-05-16T13:59:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SimonX \* > I’m curious. Actually, you’re not curious. You’re intentionally starting an argument after your other attempt at portraying something you’re not fell flat. > [@](#): > > Is the prohibition on discussing the Book of Mormon based on the idea that a Muslim wouldn’t find the Qur’an to be superior to the Book of Mormon? First off, according to you you’re not a Muslim. Second, I said that I’d thank you to shut up about that particular tome here since you already said you know nothing about it. What I objected to, and those with reading comprehension skills should be aware of this, was that you made the assertion that although you know nothing about the book you could still prove the superiority of something else. That something else, btw, you are proving that you really don’t know all that much about. > [@](#): > > Or does it just irk you somehow that a Muslim would find the Qur’an to be superior to the Book of Mormon? No, stupid statements irk me. The statement you made qualifies as such. Since you’re not Muslim, that’s a false dilemma you’re attempting to put me into. ---
**Author:** ![Beastal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Beastal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beastal)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-same-god/175099/93 "2003-05-16T14:09:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SimonX \* > \*\* > Islam is, IMHO, the most beautiful of the monotheisms that I’ve ever had the pleasure to see. \*\* I can understand what you mean by this comment, Simon. I have read quite heavily in to Islam and it does teach people to lead a very moral and righteous life. There are certain aspects of it, however, that I can not reconcile myself with, and it has prevented me from considering converting to it. People in this thread have spoken about looking at the evidences _for_ and _against_ the Qur’an. Here’s something I’d like to see a refutation against. The Noble Qur’an, Chapter 18, verse 86: > [@](#): > > Until when he reached the setting of the Sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water. Near it he found a People. We said: “O Zul-qarnain! (Thou hast authority,) either to punish them or to treat them with kindness.” What the? He found it (the sun) setting \*in \* a spring of murky water? I guess the author(s) of the Qur’an could be forgiven at the time for thinking the earth was flat. Modern Islamic scholars try to discount this as being an error by suggesting that the verse is speaking ‘metaphorically’ (yes I know, it’s a common approach used by most religious men and women to explain away apparent faults in their scriptures). Here is a good article on the verse that, in my opinion, discredits the modern Muslim’s claim that the verse was written with the intention of it being metaphorical. [http://debate.domini.org/newton/spring.html](http://debate.domini.org/newton/spring.html) ---
**Author:** ![Beastal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Beastal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beastal)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-same-god/175099/94 "2003-05-16T14:14:51Z")
Looking back, I fear I may have just hijacked the thread. I can re-post that in to a new thread, if the participants of this one so desire. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-same-god/175099/95 "2003-05-16T14:29:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\* > Actually, you’re not curious. > \*\* Actually, I _am_ curious. I really _don’t_ understand why you’re so bent out of shape. It’s probably just my personal obtuseness. I hope you’ll pardon my lack of insightfulness and find patience for me. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\* > First off, according to you you’re not a Muslim. Second, I said that I’d thank you to shut up about that particular tome here since you already said you know nothing about it. What I objected to, and those with reading comprehension skills should be aware of this, was that you made the assertion that although you know nothing about the book you could still prove the superiority of something else. That something else, btw, you are proving that you really don’t know all that much about. > \*\* My initial and cursory research into how Muslims regard the Qur’an supports the idea that many Muslims find the Qur’an to be superior to _every_ other book in existence both sacred and secular. The Qur’an is a central aspect of the Islamic tradition. It is regarded as a miracle. I’ve not seen any reason to believe that Islam does not find the Qur’an to be superior to the Book of Mormon. If you have some knowledge about Islam that shows that the Qur’an is not considered to be superior to the Book of Mormon please share. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\* > No, stupid statements irk me. The statement you made qualifies as such. Since you’re not Muslim, that’s a false dilemma you’re attempting to put me into. > \*\* You do realize that I’m attempting to check my understanding of an Isamic POV don’t you? If you have some pointers as to where I’ve erred in the apologetic I’ve rigged together with baling wire and duct tape, please advise. I mean no disrespect to the Book of Mormon. I’ve made no attempt to protray it in any light. All that I’ve done is say what I think the Islamic POV on the relation between the Book of Mormon and the Qur’an is. As a Mormon, I assume that you find the Book of Mormon to be superior to the Qur’an. If I were speaking as if from a Mormon POV as I understand it, I would say that the Book of Mormon could easily be shown to be superior to the Qur’an, (assuming, of course, that it is indeed the case in a Mormon POV). Again, I ask your pardon for giving offense. I assure you that it was inadvertent. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-same-god/175099/96 "2003-05-16T14:35:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Beastal \* > \*\*Looking back, I fear I may have just hijacked the thread. I can re-post that in to a new thread, if the participants of this one so desire. \*\* Here’n-a-minute we can start another thread on this sort of thing. We should wait til after the **Dr.** goes to bed. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-same-god/175099/97 "2003-05-16T14:40:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Beastal \* > \*\* > [http://debate.domini.org/newton/spring.html](http://debate.domini.org/newton/spring.html) \*\* These kinds of things don’t have any bearing on my aesthetic reaction to Islam. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-same-god/175099/98 "2003-05-16T14:54:22Z")
Actually, Simon; I now realize that you are being obtuse and intentionally so. Enjoy yourself. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-same-god/175099/99 "2003-05-16T14:56:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*Actually, Simon; I now realize that you are being obtuse and intentionally so. Enjoy yourself. \*\* peace to you too. ---
**Author:** ![Bibliovore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Bibliovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bibliovore)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-same-god/175099/100 "2003-05-16T15:26:56Z")
Okay, you two, this is a debate, not a bollock-kicking competition, so can we get back to the point of the OP? We’re not here to bicker about whose book is best, or about whether or not God exists. We’re here to discuss whether or not Muslims worship the same God as Jews and Christians. Please either stick to the subject at hand or take it to the Pit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-same-god/175099.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-same-god/175099.md?page=6)