# The Sandman TV Show thread (See OP for spoiler policy) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted, netflix\ **Created:** [August 5, 2022, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145 "2022-08-05T15:39:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2022, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/21 "2022-08-07T15:18:07Z")
Jenna Coleman had the most faithful portrayal of John Constantine I’ve seen. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2022, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/22 "2022-08-07T16:30:29Z")
I have not read the source material, only vaguely aware of stuff through osmosis. I’ve watched the first two episodes and like it so far. Soon I will avoid this thread due to spoilers. Brian ---
**Author:** ![JohnnyEcks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnnyecks/32/18197_2.png) [@JohnnyEcks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnnyEcks)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2022, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/23 "2022-08-07T17:19:30Z")
I’ve read the original comics and watched the first six episodes, and I am generally pleased. That said, there’s a fair amount of things I would have done differently. Cain and Abel, for example- the actors were good, but Cain just isn’t Cain without red hair. Johanna Constantine needed to be a little more dissolute. The scenes in the dreaming just weren’t dreamlike enough for my taste. Maybe it’s just me, but I always pictured the place as being full of sleeping humans having, well, dreams. The dream realm should run on dream logic. I don’t think they went far enough in emphasizing dream’s stubborn obsession with rules, protocol, and duty. Question: did the original comics version of John Constantine actually do any flashy magic? It’s been a while, but I remember the character as a supernatural noir detective- he always loses in a stand up fight, but is powerful because he knows all the supernatural “word on the street “, combined with guile and trickery. The screen versions all seem to turn him (or her!) into Dr. Strange in a trenchcoat. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2022, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/24 "2022-08-07T17:29:34Z")
> [@JohnnyEcks](#): > > Question: did the original comics version of John Constantine actually do any flashy magic? Depends on which book. When he’s in his own comics, he’s mostly as you describe. When he’s in a Justice League comic, he gets a lot flashier. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2022, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/25 "2022-08-07T17:31:21Z")
> [@JohnnyEcks](#): > > Maybe it’s just me, but I always pictured the place as being full of sleeping humans having, well, dreams. That’s what it looked like in the opening scene. > [@JohnnyEcks](#): > > did the original comics version of John Constantine actually do any flashy magic? Yes. Not very often, but he was certainly capable of it. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2022, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/26 "2022-08-07T18:55:27Z")
The Atlantic loves it less that The Economist: > **[Netflix’s 'The Sandman' Is a Fan’s Dream. Is That Good Enough?](https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2022/08/netflix-the-sandman-tv-show-neil-gaiman/671062/)** > > The TV adaptation is extremely loyal to Neil Gaiman’s original comic books—and that’s as enticing as it is frustrating. I think that was it from me until I’ve watched past spoiler territory. So, it’s ten episodes to start with? Let’s see how long that takes me. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2022, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/27 "2022-08-07T19:30:01Z")
I think for now my conclusion is that the series is a competent adaptation of the original. It’s biggest flaw is that a TV show can never be quite as fantastical as a comic book and has less scope to imply things rather than just showing them, but that is a limitation of the medium. If the books were going to have to be made into a show, then this is probably what one could hope for from a faithful adaptation. What I wonder though is whether the degree of faithfulness prevented the development of something new. The best adaptations aren’t just faithful; they are also original and creative in their own right. I watched the season and then went back to read the first two volumes of the comic. I’ll say this: the one thing that I like better about the show is the diversity of the cast. It was a bit of a shock going back to the comic and seeing 99 percent white people and disproportionately male. I’d say that nearly every casting choice was not only perfect but actually enhanced the character. This was the one major way that the show added something new to the work. The one bit of CGI that I thought was great was Azazel. I do wish that there had been a scene in which I could see all the sigils of the Endless clearly though. ---
**Author:** ![Pavelb1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/439d5e/32.png) [@Pavelb1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pavelb1)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/28 "2022-08-08T02:14:15Z")
Still no Scouse accent though. :\> I wish they’d released these one at a time so we could talk about the little changes more specifically like Dream not being exhausted by …what came before…(I assume.) and things like Corinthian telling Burgess what he’d caught. 30 minutes in the first episode and the most fantastic thing IMHO is how gorgeous it all looks. And the casting. ---
**Author:** ![Pavelb1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/439d5e/32.png) [@Pavelb1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pavelb1)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/29 "2022-08-08T02:30:17Z")
There’s a thematic reason for some of the males. I covered this with Dibble. It was an interesting convo. Others like Lucien(nne) are because he was a host of a comic like Cain and Abel. The only thing I didn’t like about that swap was I like Lucien being taller then Dream. The only swap that made me raise an eyebrow was the Kincaid family. But it occurs to me that if Sykes was that well-off and socially integrated, then why can’t they. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/30 "2022-08-08T02:44:10Z")
> [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > Jenna Coleman had the most faithful portrayal of John Constantine I’ve seen. More than the Matt Ryan? I have not yet gotten to the Johanna Constantine appearances in the show. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/31 "2022-08-08T03:01:34Z")
> [@Pavelb1](#): > > Others like Lucien(nne) are because he was a host of a comic like Cain and Abel. Yes, it am fully aware where those characters came from. That is not a “thematic reason.” ---
**Author:** ![Pavelb1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/439d5e/32.png) [@Pavelb1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pavelb1)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/32 "2022-08-08T03:03:50Z")
I didnt say it was. “OTHERS LIKE” Just finished ep one. Weirdly, the only black person I remember from the first few comics, Sykes, got his part cut way down. ---
**Author:** ![Pavelb1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/439d5e/32.png) [@Pavelb1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pavelb1)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/33 "2022-08-08T03:46:59Z")
MY JC stops with Ennis’s last issue. I tried to go further but couldnt do it. I think an American writer took over immediatly after him. As for the Justice League Dark shite?? It can go straight to hell. I was also hoping they would gender-swap Constantine’s lover. Since its such a trope that ‘women are the weaker sex, prey to temptations’…i thought it would have been very interesting to see a male in that position. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Burden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/958977/32.png) [@Jack\_Burden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Burden)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/34 "2022-08-08T07:11:15Z")
> [@Pavelb1](#): > > I wish they’d released these one at a time so we could talk about the little changes more specifically like Dream not being exhausted by …what came before…(I assume.) and things like Corinthian telling Burgess what he’d caught. It seems this presentation of The Sandman is excluding the events of Overture and just making Dream subject to capture because he is in the Waking World to rein in The Corinthian. Which pains me because I would dearly love to see The Sandman:Overture done properly. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/35 "2022-08-08T14:07:43Z")
> [@Pavelb1](#): > > MY JC stops with Ennis’s last issue. I tried to go further but couldnt do it. I think an American writer took over immediatly after him. > > As for the Justice League Dark shite?? It can go straight to hell. > > I was also hoping they would gender-swap Constantine’s lover. Since its such a trope that ‘women are the weaker sex, prey to temptations’…i thought it would have been very interesting to see a male in that position. Maybe I liked it because there were so many shout outs to Ennis’ and DeLano’s runs. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/36 "2022-08-08T15:04:40Z")
I’ve finished all ten episodes, and to copy some of what I wrote over in the “Series you’ve recently watched…” thread (I’m assuming casting isn’t a spoilerable point): > [@Series you've recently watched, are now watching or have given up on](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/series-youve-recently-watched-are-now-watching-or-have-given-up-on/946108/1587): > > I am aware that people are having various conniptions about the casting, and particularly about the casting of Death, but fuck the haters because Kirby Howell-Baptiste is an absolute delight in the “The Sound of Her Wings” episode. Standout performance by far is David Thewlis’s John Dee, whose polite menace was perfectly pitched for maximum tension - the scenes of the car journey with him and Sarah Niles’ Rosemary are edge-of-seat thriller stuff. Gwendolyn Christie’s Lucifer shows a lot of promise, Jenna Coleman’s modern Johanna Constantine works just fine, and Boyd Holbrook is a decent Corinthian. > > Weak points: much as I love Patton Oswalt as voice actor, he’s not doing it for me here, Charles Dance was basically doing the same character he does in everything, they’ve made Mazikeen way too sexy for a demon that drives men mad at the sight of her, and FOR FUCK SAKE TOM STURRIDGE YOU ARE NOT BATMAN! STOP WITH THE GRAVELLY MUMBLING! > > There are various changes from the story in the comics (I’m still deciding whether the diner scene is better, worse, a mix of both or just different) but by and large Season 1 covers up to the end of The Doll’s House storyline closely enough. Roll on Season 2 and _Season of Mists_. BTW, it took me a while to place Sarah Niles until her American accent slipped and I realized she was Dr Fieldstone in _Ted Lasso_. > [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > Jenna Coleman had the most faithful portrayal of John Constantine I’ve seen. Agreed. And I was impressed that not only was her nightmare/memory taken straight from the _Hellblazer_ comic but it was THE thing that I found most disturbing in all of the HB comics I’d read. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/37 "2022-08-08T15:57:58Z")
> [@Series you've recently watched, are now watching or have given up on](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/series-youve-recently-watched-are-now-watching-or-have-given-up-on/946108/1587): > > FOR FUCK SAKE TOM STURRIDGE YOU ARE NOT BATMAN! STOP WITH THE GRAVELLY MUMBLING! Ha ha! Neil himself kinda agrees with you: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/BPwT3ki2Lps/maxresdefault.jpg "Neil Gaiman and Tom Sturridge On What to Expect For 'The Sandman' | Entertainment Weekly") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPwT3ki2Lps) ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/38 "2022-08-08T16:06:19Z")
I absolutely loved this series; finished all ten episodes yesterday. > [@Acsenray](#): > > The best adaptations aren’t just faithful; they are also original and creative in their own right. Hard disagree from me here. In my opinion, if I love a book/comic series/whatever, and I want to see it on screen… well, then I want to see IT on screen. If I wanted to see something else, I would watch something else. That isn’t too say there isn’t room for adaptations into a visual medium; for a master-class in phenomenal adaptation of a character to screen, see the BBC’s _Dirk Gently’s Holistic Detective Agency_… done by writing an entirely new narrative, but in such an evocative way that you couldn’t help but feel it was a new visit into a well-loved universe. I acknowledge mine might be a minority opinion, seeing as _Dirk Gently_ was cancelled after series 2… meanwhile, _The Wheel of Time_, which was so bad (in my opinion) that I cancelled Amazon Prime in (unheard) protest, has been renewed for at least 3 seasons… ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/39 "2022-08-08T18:02:28Z")
> [@JohnnyEcks](#): > > Question: did the original comics version of John Constantine actually do any flashy magic? It’s been a while, but I remember the character as a supernatural noir detective- he always loses in a stand up fight, but is powerful because he knows all the supernatural “word on the street “, combined with guile and trickery. The screen versions all seem to turn him (or her!) into Dr. Strange in a trenchcoat. Not so much. He’s more like a stage magician, in that he already hid all the actual work out of sight, and then reveals that his opponent walked into a trap. His strength lies in his ability to mystify, intrigue and lure. I’d say he lost his taste for flashy magic when his first big production (reproduced as Joanna’s nightmare in the _Sandman_ series) failed so horribly. After that, he wound up in the same mental hospital John Dee stayed in. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/40 "2022-08-08T19:41:33Z")
> [@Kron](#): > > Hard disagree from me here. In my opinion, if I love a book/comic series/whatever, and I want to see it on screen… well, then I want to see IT on screen. To me, that’s a huge yawn. If you are making the effort to adapt a work, do _something_ new. Otherwise, I’ll just go back and read the original. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145.md?page=3)