# The Sandman TV Show thread (See OP for spoiler policy) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted, netflix\ **Created:** [August 5, 2022, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145 "2022-08-05T15:39:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2022, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/141 "2022-08-20T22:41:32Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > What was the punchline? I must have looked away. The kitten’s actions when it was dreaming reflected the actions of the giant cat that had been playing with - and then killing - a man earlier in the show, right down to the jaw snap. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2022, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/142 "2022-08-20T22:45:44Z")
No, the bit about trying to get 1000 cats to do anything at the same time made me snort–but yeah, the kitten miming the dream cat’s actions, that was really cool. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/143 "2022-08-21T08:34:59Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Debatable. Sure > [@](#): > > I mean, if Desire _makes_ you want them, aren’t you having sex against your will? If all Desire did was become very desireable, that doesn’t count as “against your will”. But we don’t know the specifics of it here, just how Unity conveyed it. And she conveyed it as a seduction, not a forcing. In the comics, I don’t recall any discussion or sense that Unity knew or remembered the father. There may have been, but I don’t recall any. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/144 "2022-08-21T09:02:42Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > I just gotta fan wank for David Thewlis, especially for killing it in episode 5. He captured the essence of a bitter old man with secret draconian intentions, speaking in a kindly voice with sinister undertones. He used a similar style as the Shame Wizard, whom he voiced in _Big Mouth_ and _Human Resources._ He has that creepy “I know what you’ve been up to” character trait that makes one’s skin crawl. > > I can hardly wait for Delirium to appear. Hopefully, next season. I feel like that’s every role David Thewlis plays. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/145 "2022-08-21T09:09:44Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > > [@MrDibble](#): > > > > And I’m not sure rape is necessarily the best descriptor - Unity certainly sounded like she was seduced, not forced, when talking about the golden-eyed man. > > Debatable. I mean, if Desire _makes_ you want them, aren’t you having sex against your will? I don’t think it’s “against your will” in the sense of using mind-control or whatever. I assume Desire can appear in whatever form someone would find most desirable and say and do all the right things to seduce that person. It wouldn’t be against their will, but in Unity’s case it’s definitely under false pretenses as to Desire’s intentions and true nature. According to the Wiki, Unity fell asleep on her 12th birthday, making her 118 by my calculations. I would assume people thought someone raped her in the hospital to produce her child. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/146 "2022-08-21T10:28:02Z")
I have not read the original. I’ve heard about it lots of times over the years, and it’s been referenced to death. I’ve been meaning to read it forever, but haven’t got around to it. I _have_ read almost all of Gaiman’s novels and short stories, and I really, really love him as an author. With that said I’ve been very excited about getting a chance to finally experience _The Sandman_. And I am… underwhelmed. For once - and this doesn’t happen often - the parts are better than the sum, and I wonder why. My guess is that Gaiman should’ve stayed away from the adaption, and the commitment to staying true to what fans of the original wanted. Reading this thread, it seems as if the series follows the original run closely, and I have to wonder why. Case in point: > [@Acsenray](#): > > One thing to remember is that when Gaiman started working on the comic, he expected that it would be cancelled before 12 issues. So he wrote the original story arcs with the idea that they needed to be wrapped up quickly. He didn’t want to leave anything hanging. But in adapting this into a tv show, he knew that he had a lot more material to work with, an entire world and mythos to draw from and to weave new story lines from a vast source material Case in point: Johanna Constantine. I get that the character has a rich story, with stand alone comics, previous movie ASF. And yet, we’re rushed through Constantine and it’s almost just an exposition, there’s no story there. Why was JC even included? Because there was an issue and a half in the original run, establishing the character, and then discarding it? The same can be said about Death (awesome episode, BTW). If it’s all setup for future seasons, then, sure. Fine. But as with the original run, there’s been no news about a second season, so why make the same (mistake) decision you made 30 years ago, leaving a potential new audience hanging. If the series doesn’t work on it’s own, for people who have never been exposed to the comic, then it indeed becomes underwhelming. And for me, there were so many great things, but others were… not so great. I was bored out of my skull with the whole Vortex subplot and increased to 1.5 speed to get to the plot points and move forward. Why was this 3-4 episodes, with no forward momentum? The whole thing could easily have been wrapped up in one or two episodes. > [@DPRK](#): > > Gaiman has been consistently guilty of a lot of that over the years. And this is a problem. I love Gaiman, the author. Gaiman the showrunner? Not so much. _American Gods_ is one of my favorite books and _Good Omens_ is easily a top 5 for me. I’ve read two copies of _Good Omens_ to the point where they fell apart. And yet, I only saw an episode or two of each series. Because while they were true to the plot, the casting was great, and it looked awesome, the flavor wasn’t there. There was something lacking, an absence of _Sense of Wonder,_ of humor. I want to love _Sandman_, and as opposed to the other outings with Gaiman as showrunner, I stuck with it. But in the end I merely liked it. I will check out a second season, if there is one. Hopefully with a bit more coherence. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/147 "2022-08-21T12:30:24Z")
> [@Charlie\_Tan](#): > > Case in point: Johanna Constantine. I get that the character has a rich story, with stand alone comics, previous movie ASF. Well, even worse, John Constantine was probably primarily given a brief appearance in the comics for the purpose of crossover appeal to readers of _Hellblazer_, which was already very popular. So this appearance was at least in part shoehorned in for marketing purposes. But at least John/Johanna Constantine fits comfortably into the Sandman ethos. Lyta Trevor-Hall doesn’t fit in on the same way. They had the sense to remove the Justice League cameos from these stories. I think they should have also thought twice about Lyta and some other elements. At least they changed Lyta (and John Dee) enough in the show so that her inclusion is not excessively clunky. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/148 "2022-08-21T14:05:38Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > So in other words, If I read the comics they’ll ruin the TV show for me? No way I’m reading them now, then. I really like the show. > [@Charlie\_Tan](#): > > I have not read the original. I’ve heard about it lots of times over the years, and it’s been referenced to death. I’ve been meaning to read it forever, but haven’t got around to it. If the question is whether or not the comics are good, yes, just read them. Not that we cannot start thinking critically about everything from the appearance of characters like John Constantine to fundamental elements of the story, but they accomplish what they set out to do and the stories work well in the stylized medium of a graphic novel. I just read them when they were published, but there is apparently an omnibus annotated edition for extra fun and to make sure you have not missed anything. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/149 "2022-08-21T16:22:10Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > I just read them when they were published, but there is apparently an omnibus annotated edition for extra fun and to make sure you have not missed anything. Yes. Lesley Klinger’s _The Annotated Sandman_ is an excellent read, IF you’re already familiar with the series. I would highly recommend if you have not read the series yet to avoid it, as it is FULL of spoilers. If you are familiar and you have the cash (four large hardcover books can be quite the dent on a budget), I urge you to pick it up. Neil and Klinger are friends IRL, and Klinger had access to the original manuscripts. It is a joy to read the excerpts. They’re almost like letters to the artists. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2022, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/150 "2022-08-22T08:17:22Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Well, even worse, John Constantine was probably primarily given a brief appearance in the comics for the purpose of crossover appeal to readers of _Hellblazer_, which was already very popular. So this appearance was at least in part shoehorned in for marketing purposes. But at least John/Johanna Constantine fits comfortably into the Sandman ethos. True - and the inclusion of the Justice League was likewise to tie _Sandman_ into the substantial existing canon. It’s how the comics industry works. (For the uninitiated, I’ll also mention that in the comics John Constantine is also the reason the “Family Man” didn’t show up to the convention - in _Hellblazer_ the Family Man is a serial killer who butchers entire families, and is eventually dealt with by JC (after the Family Man kills JC’s father). ---
**Author:** ![stui\_magpie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stui_magpie/32/11010_2.png) [@stui\_magpie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stui_magpie)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2022, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/151 "2022-08-22T08:46:54Z")
So this is the same Sandman from the 70’s DC comics? I remember him in the gaudy red and yellow superhero suit, then kicked it back to the fedora, gas mask and trenchcoat IIRC. He was a minor DC character, he could control dreams but I don’t remember any supernatural links, did that all happen recently in new comics? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2022, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/152 "2022-08-22T08:52:40Z")
No, but that Sandman is referred to in the comics as a reaction to Dream’s incarceration. He appears in one panel at the beginning of the series, a few at the very end, and in one spin-off story. I suspect we won’t see him in the TV show. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2022, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/153 "2022-08-22T08:54:58Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I suspect we won’t see him in the TV show. But we did, sort of. In Jed’s dream. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2022, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/154 "2022-08-22T11:17:49Z")
> [@stui\_magpie](#): > > So this is the same Sandman from the 70’s DC comics? I remember him in the gaudy red and yellow superhero suit, then kicked it back to the fedora, gas mask and trenchcoat IIRC. > > He was a minor DC character, he could control dreams but I don’t remember any supernatural links, did that all happen recently in new comics? This Sandman is from a 1989-1996 run by Neil Gaiman and the only connection really with previous Sandmen is the name. This Sandman is Morpheus, the embodiment of the concept of Dreams. Dream is one of the Eternals, who exist so long as there is sentient life, and, unlike gods, their existence is not dependent on anyone’s believing in them. Other Eternals that have appeared in the show so far are Death, Desire, and Delirium. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2022, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/155 "2022-08-22T11:18:49Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Dream is one of the Eternals, who exist so long as there is sentient life, and, unlike gods, their existence is not dependent on anyone’s believing in them. Other Eternals that have appeared in the show so far are Death, Desire, and Delirium. “Endless”. “Eternals” are a Marvel thing. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2022, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/156 "2022-08-22T12:29:09Z")
There is some issue which “explains” it, but it is supposed to be as simple as equating them with the eponymous concepts. So Death exists as soon as there is something that can die (single-celled organisms…), Destiny exists as long as there is a universe, Dream exists while there are things that can dream and imagine, etc. Nothing to do with sentient life, precisely, but it is explained that what they look like entirely depends on who is observing. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2022, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/157 "2022-08-22T12:36:58Z")
Is there an in-universe reason why only concepts that start with the letter “D” get to be anthropomorphized? ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2022, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/158 "2022-08-22T12:41:12Z")
Not that I recall (maybe someone else knows)… I should probably go looking for that annotated edition. One Sandman story written (later) by Gaiman refers to them as children of Father Time and Mother Night, so he himself was not consistently consistent on that point. > [@](#): > > “Sodium starts with an _s_, and I only work in _n_.” > > “But in Latin, it’s _natrium._” > > “Look, old boy,” said the machine, “if I could do everything starting with _n_ in every possible language, I’d be a Machine That Could Do Everything in the Whole Alphabet, since any item you care to mention undoubtedly starts with _n_ in one foreign language or another. It’s not that easy. I can’t go beyond what you programmed. So no sodium.” — _The Cyberiad_, concerning The Machine That Could Create Anything Starting With _N_ ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2022, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/159 "2022-08-22T13:45:35Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Is there an in-universe reason why only concepts that start with the letter “D” get to be anthropomorphized? I certainly hope not. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2022, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/160 "2022-08-22T13:46:28Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > “Endless”. “Eternals” are a Marvel thing. Right. I always mix those up. I also can’t keep Inhumans and Eternals straight. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145.md?page=9)