# The Sandman TV Show thread (See OP for spoiler policy) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted, netflix\ **Created:** [August 5, 2022, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145 "2022-08-05T15:39:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2022, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/161 "2022-08-22T13:50:24Z")
> [@stui\_magpie](#): > > So this is the same Sandman from the 70’s DC comics? I remember him in the gaudy red and yellow superhero suit, then kicked it back to the fedora, gas mask and trenchcoat IIRC. > > He was a minor DC character, he could control dreams but I don’t remember any supernatural links, did that all happen recently in new comics? Sort of. In the comics, The Wesley Dodds Sandman (Gasmask & Fedora) came about as the Universe tried to compensate for Dream’s imprisonment. It’s mentioned that he even has a little bit of Dream’s soul. The Hank Hall Sandman (red & yellow suit) came about from some escaped dreams trying to make their own dream realm. The show is slightly different. > [@Alessan](#): > > Is there an in-universe reason why only concepts that start with the letter “D” get to be anthropomorphized? > [@DPRK](#): > > Not that I recall (maybe someone else knows)… I should probably go looking for that annotated edition. I don’t remember that being addressed in the annotations. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2022, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/162 "2022-08-22T15:22:30Z")
> [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > The Hank Hall Sandman (red & yellow suit) _Hector_ Hall (who was already a super before becoming The Sandman in the Dreaming). _Hank_ Hall is Hawk from _Hawk&Dove_ ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2022, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/163 "2022-08-22T15:38:34Z")
Well, here’s a bummer to kick the week off right. Gaiman is [not optimistic that Sandman will get a season 2.](https://www.avclub.com/the-sandman-might-not-get-a-second-season-on-netflix-1849439520) ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2022, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/164 "2022-08-22T16:09:10Z")
_The Sandman_ was the #1 Netflix show in 89 countries. If it doesn’t get renewed, it won’t be due to a lack of viewers. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2022, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/165 "2022-08-22T16:09:27Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > No, but that Sandman is referred to in the comics as a reaction to Dream’s incarceration. He appears in one panel at the beginning of the series, a few at the very end, and in one spin-off story. I suspect we won’t see him in the TV show. [Ninja’ed] ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2022, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/166 "2022-08-22T16:09:56Z")
I was thinking of Dodds - I forgot about Hector. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2022, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/167 "2022-08-22T16:13:09Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > > [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > > > The Hank Hall Sandman (red & yellow suit) > > _Hector_ Hall (who was already a super before becoming The Sandman in the Dreaming). > > _Hank_ Hall is Hawk from _Hawk&Dove_ Thank you. That’s what I get for being too lazy to walk ten feet to pick up a book. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2022, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/168 "2022-08-22T16:25:14Z")
Here’s Neil’s actual tweet on the subject: > > > BigTrosMan @BigTrosMan ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2022, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/169 "2022-08-22T21:58:28Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > _The Sandman_ was the #1 Netflix show in 89 countries. If it doesn’t get renewed, it won’t be due to a lack of viewers. Yeah. Why would you buy the rights to a show where being the #1 show on your service is failing? The good news is that Gaiman can do future seasons on other services, if Netflix doesn’t want it. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/170 "2022-08-23T03:50:28Z")
No chance that Gaiman is spinning the story a bit to help motivate fans to spread the buzz? I’m too cynical I know. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/171 "2022-08-23T06:54:05Z")
Oh I’m sure he is. He’s a canny man. ---
**Author:** ![Jihi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jihi/32/17768_2.png) [@Jihi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jihi)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/172 "2022-08-23T07:37:24Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Is there an in-universe reason why only concepts that start with the letter “D” get to be anthropomorphized? Almost certainly not. It’s just a creative gimmick. Comic writers love alliteration and there’s a long history. Hence so many characters with names like Peter Parker, Reed Richards, Lex Luthor, Bruce Banner etc. There existed some earlier but Stan Lee codified it as a trope in the 60’s as most of his characters had alliterative names. When asked about it I think he said it was a memory trick as he was writing so many books by the mid 60’s it was the easiest way to keep all the names straight in his head. All the writers who came after are kind of walking in those footsteps. ---
**Author:** ![Jihi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jihi/32/17768_2.png) [@Jihi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jihi)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/173 "2022-08-23T07:46:45Z")
Concerning the show I finished it up this weekend with Mrs. Jihi and we both loved it. I first read the trades back in the early 2000’s. She has absolutely no interest in comics but had no trouble following it and found it an interesting departure from all the usual superhero fare. It did inspire me to dig out those old trades as well. Good memories. I envy anyone who’s picking the books up for the first time. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/174 "2022-08-23T13:57:01Z")
So when Alex accidentally killed Roderick, Dream reached out towards the glass, and Alex reached toward Dream. I wonder (slightly) if, since Roderick had just died, Death wasn’t in the room with them, and Dream was reaching out to her. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/175 "2022-08-23T18:47:24Z")
Here is the info I have from _The Sandman Companion:_ > [@](#): > > **HB:** In the initial notes you made for yourself about the series, you wrote that you wanted to include three brothers: “death, sleep, and ?” “Death” soon changed from brother to sister; and “Sleep” became Dream, or Sandman. Who did the question mark turn into? > > **NG:** Destiny. > > **HB:** The only member of the Endless you didn’t have to create from scratch, because he was an established DC character conceived by writer Marv Wolfman. > > **NG:** Right, I nicked him. Destiny was so mysterious, however, that no one knew much about him other than he floated around with a big book that held knowledge of the future. That was perfect for my purposes. > > **HB:** What about the other family members? > > **NG:** Once I had Dream, Death and Destiny, I went, “Oh! All their names begin with the letter _D._ Well, I’ll continue that for each additional member of the family.” I never made a big point of it, because it was fun to just drop the name of each new member of the Endless into the series and allow people to gradually notice. > > **HB:** You gave hints from the beginning, though. The Sandman’s toughest battle in the first story arc, _Preludes & Nocturnes,_ is with a character named Doctor Dee. And the very first page of _Preludes & Nocturnes_ displays the quote “D is for lots of things,” which you attribute to being said by Doctor Dee on All Fools’ Day. > > By the end of the series, you were even doing self-parodies of your naming convention… > […] > > **HB:** How did you determine the relative ages of the Endless? > > **NG:** Destiny had to be the oldest, because anything that happens is influenced by destiny. With the first organism came life and the possibility of death, so Death came next. When the first living thing woke up, the possibility of dreaming existed, so Dream came third. > > By similar reasoning, Destruction followed—and, a while afterward, the twins Desire and Despair; and finally the youngest Endless, Delight, who later became Delirium. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/176 "2022-08-23T19:23:11Z")
“Because Sandman is a really expensive show. And for Netflix to release the money to let us make another season we have to perform incredibly well. So yes, we’ve been the top show in the world for the last two weeks. That still may not be enough.” . . . sounds like some project manager(s) or other really had no clue how to budget effectively (or intentionally planned an unstainable budget for reasons). I’m 4 episodes in and am enjoying myself moderately. My thoughts so far: - It took me a while to get over the high drama of Dream’s voice, but I get it. Everything _is_ high drama to him. - Speaking of drama, I really really dislike the score. Maybe it’s because I just finished watching Station Eleven, which had a score I loved that sat on equal footing with all the other artistic choices in a given scene, and was minimal when it needed to be, but this score feels derivative and is just a tell-don’t-show unsubtle fantasy drama symphonic score that is just bigger than the scenes call for. Booming reverby drums for Hell. Huge string sections for emotional emphasis. Do whatever they did in that other big Fantasy/Sci-Fi Star Wars of the Harry Potter Rings. It’s score by numbers. Yawn. - I understand how some characters from the DC universe who play bit parts in this story arc need a bit more explanation and background to work on the screen than they did in the context of the original comic. They’ve done a nice job so far of adding those narratives to the show so that one can watch this story arc with some character background to help give in-show depth to the non-Dream folks. - I wish Mazikeen had issues speaking (or maybe couldn’t speak at all). I understand why, for the ease of television depiction, they went the way they did: you’ve got to either be intelligible or not intelligible. There’s not a great way to effectively do what was written in the books, which is give garbled English text that a reader can sit over for some seconds trying to piece together the basic gist. But, I think they lost an opportunity by not choosing the make her mute or close to it on the show, which is something that made the character (and her relationship with Lucifer) compelling in the comic. Now it’s just “oh, she looks hot on one side and ugly on the other!” - It’s understandable but a shame that they started at the beginning of the comics, and/or that they devoted an episode to each comic in this arc (though apparently the second half of the season stretches out a little more) and then are looking at the series not being picked up. I don’t think I’m going out on a limb by saying that this arc is fundamentally nothing special, and is _not_ what grabs people about Gaiman’s Sandman. It’s like they took the least important, most forgettable part of the story and blew their whole wad on that. I understand that they (and by they I mean Gaiman as well) probably didn’t want to do the work of re-framing the whole thing, didn’t want to skip bits, etc etc, but I wonder if there wasn’t some way to start somewhere else (maybe at the World’s End Inn . . . I really don’t know), from which you could still jump to the earlier stories without making them so much of a meal. Anyway, I sound like I’m complaining, but I actually find it very . . . nice. I’m enjoying it, and will watch it all. But it’s just fine . . . it’s an appetizer. It’s not the best writing of the series, nor the best story telling. If I didn’t know what was coming after (or isn’t, if this is the only season), I might not stick with it. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/177 "2022-08-23T20:06:17Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > > [@JohnnyEcks](#): > > > > Wasn’t it highly implied in “The sound of her wings” that he could have escaped any time if he had been willing to ask his family for help? > > I thought she was saying he could have asked for help recovering his various artifacts, not with the escape itself. > > Also, this slightly bothers me. Spoilers from episodes 4 & 5: > > In “A Hope in Hell,” we get, “What can destroy hope?” and Lucifer has no answer, losing the duel. In literally the next episode, we get, “You took their hope away, so of course they went mad and killed themselves.” > > Good thing Lucifer didn’t know about John Dee, I guess. Yeah I didn’t get that part either. With no life there is no hope, as hope is an emotion that life forms experience. There was no hope when the universe first formed because there were no brains to generate that emotion. Part of me was hoping that Dream would bring up quantum fluctuations that could ignite a new big bang and a new universe, blotzmann brains, etc as a counterpoint to the heat death of the universe, but instead he went with hope. Overall its one of the best TV series I’ve seen in a long time. I personally enjoyed episodes 5 and 6, which went off on tangents that were themselves extremely interesting. One thing I didn’t like was casting Patton Oswalt as the raven. Having listened to his comedy work, its hard for me to take him seriously in that role. I don’t think Oswalt is one of those actors who can easily transition from comedy to serious drama. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/178 "2022-08-23T21:11:20Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > . . . sounds like some project manager(s) or other really had no clue how to budget effectively (or intentionally planned an unstainable budget for reasons). It’s not unusual for a TV show to be cancelled because of production costs even when it’s doing well. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2022, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/179 "2022-08-24T02:58:17Z")
It draws considerably more from horror than from comedy, that’s for sure. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145/180 "2022-08-26T21:51:14Z")
Speaking of annotations, is Lucien the librarian basically Lucianus of Samosata who wrote _The Dream_ (enupnion…), or… not? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sandman-tv-show-thread-see-op-for-spoiler-policy/969145.md?page=10)