# The sarcasm pointmark. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 22, 2004, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sarcasm-pointmark/281195 "2004-12-22T18:59:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![alterego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@alterego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alterego)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2004, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sarcasm-pointmark/281195/1 "2004-12-22T18:59:16Z")
Oftentimes on instant messenger, my pure and holy friends don’t catch my sarcasm and perceive it as sincerity. A simple bout of the devil expressing himself through yet another git. The demon in me applauds this new literary tool of deliverance. > [@MSN Slate](#): > > [It is time](http://slate.msn.com/id/2111172/fr/ifr/) for the adoption of the sarcasm point. Why the sarcasm point? We have a mark that conveys that we mean or know something. We have one that says it with volume and force! We have one that communicates that we don’t know something, don’t we? We need one more: to do for language what shade did for drawing, what color did for television, and what eyebrows did for expressions—introduce finesse… > > …I’m serious[sub] **¡** [/sub] See, there are people who are relentlessly sincere. So, what are they supposed to do when they’re trying to sound a bit bitter? Suppose you’re IM’ing that oft-earnest friend you have, and he writes: “I need to go to church tomorrow and confess the jealousy in my heart.” You forget—have you ever heard him say nice things about God or do the opposite? “Wait … do you really?” “Sorry. I mean, I need to go to church tomorrow[sub] **¡** [/sub] To confess my jealousy¡ And the fact that I just renewed my subscription to Maxim¡” “Oh. Me too. Only as a Jew, I must do these things in synagogue[sub] **¡** [/sub]” For thoroughness, he’s 26 years late. > [@The Jewel-Hinged Jaw](#): > > As much as tone of voice is part of writing, the infinite nuances that various vocal tones can give to a single phrase are totally lost on the page. The scant dozen punctuation marks in the English typesetter’s box are just inadequate to handle the job. (A couple of weeks ago, Greg [Benford], Joan [Benford], Don [Simpson], [Chelsey] Quinn [Yarbro] and I were contemplating a new punctuation mark: a “sarcasm mark” which, when it appeared at the end of a sentence, would indicate that the sentence should be read in such a way as to imply the exact opposite of its denoted content. Perhaps a small tilde over a period?) _(Berkeley Windhover edition, p. 168-9, published in 1978)_ ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2004, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sarcasm-pointmark/281195/2 "2004-12-22T19:06:31Z")
Oh, that sounds like a _great_ idea. ---
**Author:** ![TellMeI\_mNotCrazy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tellmei_mnotcrazy/32/3419_2.png) [@TellMeI\_mNotCrazy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TellMeI_mNotCrazy)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2004, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sarcasm-pointmark/281195/3 "2004-12-22T19:19:36Z")
> [@Trunk](#): > > Oh, that sounds like a _great_ idea. Yup. You don’t need one at all. Because you’re \*never \* sarcastic. I don’t think we need a new punctuation mark. Too many people can’t even figure out how to use the ones we already have. And if you have to point out your sarcasm to someone, chances are you just weren’t doing it right. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2004, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sarcasm-pointmark/281195/4 "2004-12-22T19:20:34Z")
Oh, that sounds like a \*great \* idea[sub] **¡** [/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Rufus\_Xavier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@Rufus\_Xavier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rufus_Xavier)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2004, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sarcasm-pointmark/281195/5 "2004-12-22T19:35:29Z")
> [@TellMeI'mNotCrazy](#): > > Yup. You don’t need one at all. Because you’re \*never \* sarcastic. > I don’t think we need a new punctuation mark. Too many people can’t even figure out how to use the ones we already have. And if you have to point out your sarcasm to someone, chances are you just weren’t doing it right. Huh; I hope Im being 'whooshed" here! How ,could anyone: not know(how to use),punctuation mark’s? Its so logical…that any-one shoul’dnt have a problem is beyond me, Seriously, I nominate the upside-down semicolon. Kinda like this :’ ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2004, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sarcasm-pointmark/281195/6 "2004-12-22T20:40:36Z")
> [@Rufus Xavier](#): > > Huh; I hope Im being 'whooshed" here! How ,could anyone: not know(how to use),punctuation mark’s? Its so logical…that any-one shoul’dnt have a problem is beyond me, > > Seriously, I nominate the upside-down semicolon. Kinda like this :’ Rufus, this post is hurting my head. Please STOP. Ow. ---
**Author:** ![Chairman\_Pow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@Chairman\_Pow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chairman_Pow)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2004, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sarcasm-pointmark/281195/7 "2004-12-22T21:35:52Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Rufus, this post is hurting my head. Please STOP. > > Ow. Too bad you just can’t use smilies in business correspondence. For those who care, I think \<\<#?@@I%(&@ is easy to read and accurately gets the point acruss. I’m also pretty sure it spells something naughty in 1337speak. ---
**Author:** ![umop\_ap\_sdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/dbc845/32.png) [@umop\_ap\_sdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/umop_ap_sdn)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2004, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sarcasm-pointmark/281195/8 "2004-12-22T22:40:05Z")
A friend of mine who IM’s me a lot uses the 😛 smiley to indicate facetiousness, so why not just do that when you’re IM’ing? IOW, we already have a sarcasm mark and don’t need another one. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Khampelf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Khampelf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khampelf)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2004, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sarcasm-pointmark/281195/9 "2004-12-22T22:56:06Z")
On another board I haunt… er, umm frequent, we came up with the ‘Sarcasm Ampersand’ to eliminate the posts where we puzzled over what someone _Really_ meant. Survivor? Oh, sure, I watch it every week, it’s my favorite.& I almost chose ‘Sarcasm Ampersand’ to be my screen-name. ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2004, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sarcasm-pointmark/281195/10 "2004-12-22T23:01:11Z")
That’s such a _lovely_ username…& (Just kidding!) ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2004, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sarcasm-pointmark/281195/11 "2004-12-22T23:31:06Z")
> [@Rufus Xavier](#): > > Seriously, I nominate the upside-down semicolon. Kinda like this :’ I agree that one is necessary. With this new paradigm of communication via text instead of speech, it is impossible for us to convey subtexts such as sarcasm except via explicit icons. However, I feel that to properly express sarcasm with an individual character it would be most appropriate to use an upside-down colon instead. ---
**Author:** ![Rufus\_Xavier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@Rufus\_Xavier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rufus_Xavier)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sarcasm-pointmark/281195/12 "2004-12-27T16:32:05Z")
> [@Punoqllads](#): > > I agree that one is necessary. With this new paradigm of communication via text instead of speech, it is impossible for us to convey subtexts such as sarcasm except via explicit icons. However, I feel that to properly express sarcasm with an individual character it would be most appropriate to use an upside-down colon instead. Nice try, ‘spellbound.’ Unfortunately, everyone knows that using an upside-down colon can only lead to acute gastric distress. It’s alimentary. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sarcasm-pointmark/281195/13 "2004-12-27T18:29:07Z")
> [@The Sonoran Lizard King](#): > > I almost chose ‘Sarcasm Ampersand’ to be my screen-name. I’m naming my daughter “Sarcasm Ampersand.” ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sarcasm-pointmark/281195/14 "2004-12-27T19:12:49Z")
> [@](#): > > Unfortunately, everyone knows that using an upside-down colon can only lead to acute gastric distress. It’s alimentary. Rufus - OUCH! The pain. ---
**Author:** ![Khampelf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Khampelf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khampelf)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sarcasm-pointmark/281195/15 "2004-12-27T21:41:53Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > I’m naming my daughter “Sarcasm Ampersand.” Be sure to get her some Green Jammies with Ampersands all over them. She’ll have a head start on being a super-villain of some description. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sarcasm-pointmark/281195/16 "2004-12-27T21:49:51Z")
I dunno. Half the fun of sarcasm and irony is the feeling of smug, largely baseless superiority one feels when someone totally misses what you were really saying. ---
**Author:** ![TJdude825](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@TJdude825](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TJdude825)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sarcasm-pointmark/281195/17 "2004-12-28T08:03:01Z")
I agree that punctuation (not to mention spelling, sentence formation, capitalization, etc) would be too difficult for most people. Also, what **Miller** said. If anything, it could only be used in places full of smart people, like the SDMB for example. If we did decide to adopt a sarcasm mark, I’d propose “§” because it looks like an S and it’s otherwise pretty useless, except to mean “section” or “subsection” or something in snooty pretentious books. ---
**Author:** ![Sean\_Factotum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Sean\_Factotum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sean_Factotum)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sarcasm-pointmark/281195/18 "2004-12-28T14:23:03Z")
For years I’ve been using “start/end sarcastics”, in the same way one would use italics, to designate sarcasm in my written correspondence. I for one welcome this addition to the language.