# The Saudi Palace Coup **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 29, 2015, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-saudi-palace-coup/718803 "2015-04-29T13:13:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MorphinePoet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morphinepoet/32/7315_2.png) [@MorphinePoet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MorphinePoet)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-saudi-palace-coup/718803/1 "2015-04-29T13:13:19Z")
Last night King Salman of Saudi Arabia - who’d just become king in January after the death of his predecessor King Abdulla - sacked his Crown Prince and totally skipped the first generation of royals - the sons of the founder - by appointing a grandson of the founder as the new Crown Prince, who just became the first second generation royal to become Crown Prince. King Salman also appointed his own son - who’s thirty years old and already Defence Minister and Secretary General of the Royal Court - as the new Deputy Crown Prince, thus totally skipping the second generation of royals - the grandsons of the ruler - and going into the third generation, also for the first time in the history of Saudi Arabia. He also sacked strongman and longtime Minister of Foreign Affairs, Prince Saud al-Faisal, and appointed the incumbent Saudi ambassador to the US, Adel al-Jubair, as the new Minister of FA. All of these moves and reshuffles - including his early decision to sack the prominent Khaled al-Tuwajiri from his post as Sec Gen of the Royal Court - are considered revolutionary. My own opinion is that this is the beginning of a major rift in the Saudi royal family and ultimately the whole kingdom. This goes beyond just ‘alienating’ some prominent emirs and goes into a zone in which no collective royal wisdom or mediation will deter harsh reactions. What do you think will happen next? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-saudi-palace-coup/718803/2 "2015-04-29T13:19:12Z")
If it leads to civil war, I’m rooting for both sides to lose. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-saudi-palace-coup/718803/3 "2015-04-29T13:29:00Z")
Man, that’s got to look bad on the resume… ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-saudi-palace-coup/718803/4 "2015-04-29T13:43:07Z")
They fucked up in Yemen. Royally. This is the results. Its like Israel after 2006 Lebanon. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-saudi-palace-coup/718803/5 "2015-04-29T14:18:58Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > They fucked up in Yemen. Royally. No pun intended 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-saudi-palace-coup/718803/6 "2015-04-29T14:23:21Z")
It’s interesting that he’s made his nephew his heir rather than his son. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-saudi-palace-coup/718803/7 "2015-04-29T14:41:46Z")
There has been significant pressure for the royal family to move into the next generation of successors for quite some time now. This is hardly revolutionary. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-saudi-palace-coup/718803/8 "2015-04-29T14:48:44Z")
In what sense is this a coup? King Salman is still king. He has changed the order of succession (contrary to tradition but AFAIK quite legally) and changed some Ministry heads (also legally AFAIK). ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-saudi-palace-coup/718803/9 "2015-04-29T14:49:25Z")
When do women get to drive? ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-saudi-palace-coup/718803/10 "2015-04-29T15:00:36Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-saudi-palace-coup/718803/11 "2015-04-29T15:07:54Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > It’s interesting that he’s made his nephew his heir rather than his son. His son is only 30 or so, I think. He would presumably be considered much too young to step right in. Here is a [chart](http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2015/04/saudi-arabias-monarchy) of part of the Saudi royal family. Note that on the right side it just lumps together Abdel-Aziz’s 34(!) other sons. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-saudi-palace-coup/718803/12 "2015-04-29T15:27:53Z")
Good thing, the traditional order of succession was a formula for perpetual gerontocracy. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-saudi-palace-coup/718803/13 "2015-04-29T15:48:45Z")
Get off my sand! ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-saudi-palace-coup/718803/14 "2015-04-29T16:47:20Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Good thing, the traditional order of succession was a formula for perpetual gerontocracy. This is absolutely true. I have to wonder, though; once one king sets aside what little “rulebook” the country has, does that mean chaos for every later succession? I guess the Soviet Union held it together during transitions without any rules, although there too they faced a gerontocracy problem. Salman’s son being Defense Minister may help him, to the extent he builds his own power base with the military. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-saudi-palace-coup/718803/15 "2015-04-29T18:16:01Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Salman’s son being Defense Minister may help him, to the extent he builds his own power base with the military. The Saudi military is a glorified marching band, sailing group and flying club, with a country club level rules of membership, only the right “sort” get in. There is a reason they were begging Pakistan and Egypt for help in Yemen and why they were so butthurt when Pakistan refused. Nobody cares about the military, which is about an dangerous as a sloth. The real force is the Interior ministry and its troops. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-saudi-palace-coup/718803/16 "2015-04-29T22:09:14Z")
> [@MorphinePoet](#): > > Last night King Salman of Saudi Arabia - who’d just become king in January after the death of his predecessor King Abdulla - sacked his Crown Prince and totally skipped the first generation of royals - the sons of the founder - by appointing a grandson of the founder as the new Crown Prince, who just became the first second generation royal to become Crown Prince. King Salman also appointed his own son - who’s thirty years old and already Defence Minister and Secretary General of the Royal Court - as the new Deputy Crown Prince, thus totally skipping the second generation of royals - the grandsons of the ruler - and going into the third generation, also for the first time in the history of Saudi Arabia. > > He also sacked strongman and longtime Minister of Foreign Affairs, Prince Saud al-Faisal, and appointed the incumbent Saudi ambassador to the US, Adel al-Jubair, as the new Minister of FA. > > All of these moves and reshuffles - including his early decision to sack the prominent Khaled al-Tuwajiri from his post as Sec Gen of the Royal Court - are considered revolutionary. > > My own opinion is that this is the beginning of a major rift in the Saudi royal family and ultimately the whole kingdom. This goes beyond just ‘alienating’ some prominent emirs and goes into a zone in which no collective royal wisdom or mediation will deter harsh reactions. > > What do you think will happen next? Sounds more like a purge , than a coup. Declan ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-saudi-palace-coup/718803/17 "2015-04-29T22:49:01Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > In what sense is this a coup? King Salman is still king. He has changed the order of succession (contrary to tradition but AFAIK quite legally) and changed some Ministry heads (also legally AFAIK). I don’t know if this fits the definition or not, but [self-coups are a thing](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-coup). It’s not the first time that a autocratic ruler has cut people out of the line of succession. Oftentimes it’s because the original heir was a fuckup (see: Uday Hussein). ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-saudi-palace-coup/718803/18 "2015-04-29T22:58:33Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by BrainGlutton View Post > Good thing, the traditional order of succession was a formula for perpetual gerontocracy. Just ask Prince Charles about that. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-saudi-palace-coup/718803/19 "2015-04-30T03:47:13Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > I guess the Soviet Union held it together during transitions without any rules, although there too they faced a gerontocracy problem. China has done alright as well (and Iran, though they’ve only had one transition between Supreme Leaders). I certainly wouldn’t advocate it from a human rights or good-governance standpoint, but having an opaque ruling party/family at the top which basically hashes out between themselves when its time to choose the next guy seems to work all right from a stability standpoint. ---
**Author:** ![Nema98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d2c977/32.png) [@Nema98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nema98)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-saudi-palace-coup/718803/20 "2015-04-30T21:40:19Z")
Interesting view by the OP but I would not call this a coup. King Salman inherited the throne and like all new heads of government, whether an absolute monarch, president or prime minister change cabinet members. This not unusual at all and is in fact expected. The foreign minister, Saud al-Faisal has been in that post since 1975! Forty years!! Plus reports say he was ill and he is 75 years old. But even if the King wanted to replace him, that is legal. Very rarely does someone hold a post for decades on end, Saud al-Faisal is the world’s longest serving foreign minister, serving during the reigns of four Saudi kings. His replacement is Adel al-Jubeir, who was the Saudi ambassador to the U.S since 2007. Now being appointed foreign minister by King Salman, it is the first time that an important post is being held by someone NOT a member of the large royal family. As for a nephew being this is not all that unusual, the Saudi succession rules are unique compared to other monarchies, even those in the Arab world. It’s actually quite confusing and complicated. Below is a link to the Wikipedia article which discusses the background and current affairs. > **[Succession to the Saudi Arabian throne](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succession_to_the_Saudi_Arabian_throne)** > > Member State of the Arab League > > > The order of succession to the Saudi Arabian throne is determined by, and within, the House of Saud. Every King of Saudi Arabia, upon his death, has been succeeded by the crown prince, with a new crown prince then being appointed according to agnatic seniority among the sons of Ibn Saud, though various members of the family have been bypassed for various reasons. A deputy crown prince (second in line for the throne) was first selected in 2014. Even during a single reign, there could be several heir apparent or crown princes chosen. Some have died before the king died, this happened in 2011 and 2012 with King Abdullah’s crown princes. So some of the moves by King Salman are indeed notable and interesting, overall it is not a coup. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-saudi-palace-coup/718803.md?page=2)