# The science in Game of Thrones **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 21, 2011, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-science-in-game-of-thrones/586245 "2011-06-21T03:37:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2011, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-science-in-game-of-thrones/586245/21 "2011-06-22T08:45:36Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > But the concept of the year is based off a full seasonal cycle. It really isn’t, though - most dating systems have fiddly bits put in so the seasons ‘wobble’ relative to the year, rather than drifting off entirely, because the year is based on something else, but having the seasons hit at the about the same point during the year is a good thing for planning planting and harvests. With seasons like the ones in ASoIaF, there’d be no point in that, so the year would simply be based on the sun’s progression through the zodiac, or the cycles of the moon, or the growing cycle of chief crops, or something of mystical significance to the culture that designed the calendar, without all the fiddly bits to align the seasons. ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-science-in-game-of-thrones/586245/22 "2011-06-23T04:08:44Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > That’s Midwinter, not the start. There is seasonal lag, but it’s better to say it starts anywhere from 1 Nov (Samhain) to 1 Dec (it starts 1 June here) depending. Samhain is good for the “least daylight hours” version, 1 Dec is better for the “3 coldest months of the year” definition. But it makes no sense to _start_ Winter at the solstice (even if that’s the US standard practice) The local weathercasters refer to “meteorological winter” starting December 1. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-science-in-game-of-thrones/586245/23 "2011-06-23T11:11:19Z")
> [@Spectralist](#): > > The seasons lengths do vary. A specific range is never given but I got the impression that a 5 year summer was about average. With 3 and 10 years being unusually short and long but not enough so to seem odd to the educated. And the winters are usually of a length similar to the summers that preceded them. Tyrion was born during what was described as a particularly brutal three year winter, and the story Bran is told is about a ten year winter, so there’s definitely evidence for what you’re proposing. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-science-in-game-of-thrones/586245/24 "2011-06-23T15:39:16Z")
I’m not a book reader but my understanding from watching the show was that the long winters were basically mini-Ice Ages, perhaps growing longer and longer after each cycle. How large of a planet do we think this world is? Earth-sized? Bigger, smaller? ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-science-in-game-of-thrones/586245/25 "2011-06-24T01:25:21Z")
I thought “Winter” was just a metaphor for “Times at war”. Is this not true? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![DxZero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@DxZero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DxZero)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-science-in-game-of-thrones/586245/26 "2011-06-24T01:39:36Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > I thought “Winter” was just a metaphor for “Times at war”. Is this not true? 😕 Not a book reader. But “Winter” is literally winter. During King Robert’s reign, there were various small wars encompassing much more time than was to referred to as winter. IIRC, the Targaryean reign had as many more years at war than not at war. Winter as a season is bad, because nothing can grow. Crops die. Famine. The whole bit. Especially when winters can last years. Thats why its so dreaded. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-science-in-game-of-thrones/586245/27 "2011-06-24T03:45:12Z")
Actually, how much does winter affect Dorne? Or other continent(s) (other than Westeros). It’s been a while since I read the books Brian ---
**Author:** ![elensari](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/fbc32d/32.png) [@elensari](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elensari)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-science-in-game-of-thrones/586245/28 "2011-08-18T01:19:21Z")
I agree that trying to explain a fantasy world with science as we know it is somewhat reficulous, but it is too interesting an enigma not to try. All gaming worlds have physics models of some sort. I love the idea of a variable star. Being a giant would not make the scenario impossible. It is only necessary for our world to stay far enough away from it to keep from burning out its atmosphere in summer. Also, being a variable star system with a giant star of some variety would potentially support our planet having a pronounced elliptical orbit. You would need the size to mainetain enough temperature stability at the hemisphere pointed towards it in long winters. Also a variable star system orbits itself, so due to wobble when the northern hemisphere is pointed away and the smaller star is dominant = long winter. GRRM mentions the moon, so we assume there is only one. What if this is wrong? If there were more than one and it was larger with an elliptical orbit this could be how they tell the years. That is complete speculation though since it is not yet mentioned. If this were true though it would absolutely cause tidal and techtonic anomolies which are already used in the tale of Valeria’s demise, per the books. Insert crazy extra moon and when it is closer or farther it too can effect the seasons, but being a moon is still visible enough to determine the seasons. Certainly this is still a scenario where magic alone would keep this extremely delicate balance in place. There us my two cents worth. Fun discussion by the way. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-science-in-game-of-thrones/586245/29 "2011-08-18T01:36:47Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > The world has essentially a scientist caste with obsessive record keeping. If there was a historical pattern to summer and winter, we would have seen references to the Maesters Almanac. Since we haven’t, ergo one does not exist. Ergo, there is no pattern. All the points about it not making logical sense are correct. In the world of GOT you have a scientific caste of the brightest minds that have had written language for thousands of years, and yet there is virtually zero advance in the practical sciences of any sort beyond a more or less medieval level of technology. They have been stuck at the same technological level for hundreds to thousands of years despite a powerful engine for progress at their fingertips re the Maester class. It’s a bizarre conceit, but the author makes the rules. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-science-in-game-of-thrones/586245.md?page=1)