# The Science of Discworld III Darwin's Watch **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 20, 2005, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-science-of-discworld-iii-darwins-watch/304815 "2005-05-20T23:43:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Nic2004](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@Nic2004](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nic2004)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-science-of-discworld-iii-darwins-watch/304815/21 "2005-05-25T12:53:41Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > You’ll enjoy **Night Watch** more if you’re familiar with _Les Miserables._ > > (I wasn’t, but enjoyed it anyway 🙂 ) Interesting. I have been interested in the time period(IIRC) of the French Revolution and enjoyed _Tale of Two Cities_. Is this memory correct? Is _Les Miserables_ of this period and how does it enhance this book? Thanks ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-science-of-discworld-iii-darwins-watch/304815/22 "2005-05-25T12:58:29Z")
Was _The Science of Discworld II: The Globe_ ever published in the US? I looked everywhere and finally had to order it from the UK. I don’t even know how much I paid for it; how much is £ 10 in US dollars? ---
**Author:** ![Izzardesque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a9adbd/32.png) [@Izzardesque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Izzardesque)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-science-of-discworld-iii-darwins-watch/304815/23 "2005-05-25T16:40:19Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Was _The Science of Discworld II: The Globe_ ever published in the US? I looked everywhere and finally had to order it from the UK. I don’t even know how much I paid for it; how much is £ 10 in US dollars? About $20. The first SotDW is the best of the three. All are quite interesting tho. I concur with those who say the ‘Guards’ series are the best, although Sourcery is a favourite of mine - nothing can beat the image of the Horseman of the Apocalypse getting drunk! ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-science-of-discworld-iii-darwins-watch/304815/24 "2005-05-25T20:19:46Z")
> [@Nicodemus2004](#): > > Is _Les Miserables_ of this period and how does it enhance this book? At the risk of minor spoilage, suffice it to say that many plot elements in **Night Watch** are “evil twin” versions of elements from _Les Miz._ This is certainly not a first for Terry Pratchett – **Masquerade** was a riff on _The Phantom of the Opera._ ---
**Author:** ![Nic2004](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@Nic2004](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nic2004)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-science-of-discworld-iii-darwins-watch/304815/25 "2005-05-26T00:49:44Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > At the risk of minor spoilage, suffice it to say that many plot elements in **Night Watch** are “evil twin” versions of elements from _Les Miz._ > > This is certainly not a first for Terry Pratchett – **Masquerade** was a riff on _The Phantom of the Opera._ Interesting, thanks. I just passed the part of the fight on the roof of the Library and the lightning strike and the awakeing in same place/different time. I am however having a little trouble in getting a mental picture of people/things and the settings where this is all taking place. The author seems to take for granted my familiarity with the landscape and creatures in the story. Is this just me or is this the result of starting with this book? I am enjoying the story very much. I guess I’m recently familure with some Dickens works and he does a lot of visual writing…describing peoples appearances and the look of the surroundings. Anyway, thanks to all for the lead. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-science-of-discworld-iii-darwins-watch/304815/26 "2005-05-26T06:55:54Z")
> [@Nicodemus2004](#): > > I am however having a little trouble in getting a mental picture of people/things and the settings where this is all taking place. The author seems to take for granted my familiarity with the landscape and creatures in the story. Is this just me or is this the result of starting with this book? It’s the book. Most **Discworld** novels don’t really muck too deeply with geography, but **Night Watch** has some moderately critical plot points that are dependent on how far away people and places are from each other. IIRC, Pratchett even mentions somewhere that he laid out some of the scenes with the help of _The Mapp of Ankh-Morpork,_ a peripheral book written by Stephen Briggs. Unfortunately, I find the map at the beginning of the book doesn’t help too much, either. As for character descriptions, Pratchett doesn’t dwell on them too much, so feel free to envision the characters any way you like. 🙂 A lot of people like to use Clint Eastwood as a stand-in for Sam Vimes… ---
**Author:** ![Tarrsk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/97f17d/32.png) [@Tarrsk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarrsk)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-science-of-discworld-iii-darwins-watch/304815/27 "2005-05-26T07:51:05Z")
Considering you’ve already started “Night Watch,” I’d advise going back and reading the Watch books from the start, in order (as listed in **Torgo** ’s L-space link). The development of Sam Vimes from disillusioned drunk to unwilling duke and force for justice in the streets of Ankh-Morpork is brilliantly executed, and every one of the Watch books work excellently as stand-alone stories as well. You’ll gain new appreciation for “Night Watch,” going back to it after working your way through the rest of the arc in order. After the Watch books, my favorite character “bloc” is the Death/ Susan arc (starting with “Mort,” although it really gets going in “Reaper Man”). Rincewind I could take or leave; the main draw of his books, for me, are the wizards of Unseen University, who are a hilarious parody of academia. Archchancellor Ridcully + Ponder Stibbons = comedy gold. ---
**Author:** ![Nic2004](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@Nic2004](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nic2004)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-science-of-discworld-iii-darwins-watch/304815/28 "2005-05-26T14:11:14Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > It’s the book. Most **Discworld** novels don’t really muck too deeply with geography, but **Night Watch** has some moderately critical plot points that are dependent on how far away people and places are from each other. IIRC, Pratchett even mentions somewhere that he laid out some of the scenes with the help of _The Mapp of Ankh-Morpork,_ a peripheral book written by Stephen Briggs. Unfortunately, I find the map at the beginning of the book doesn’t help too much, either. > > As for character descriptions, Pratchett doesn’t dwell on them too much, so feel free to envision the characters any way you like. 🙂 A lot of people like to use Clint Eastwood as a stand-in for Sam Vimes… Yeah, the map doesn’t help me much either. And I hadn’t thought of Clint as Sam but now that you mention it… it does kinda work. Thanks, I go back to it shortly. And **Tarrsk** , thanks also. I just left those two in the damaged Library with the Archchancellor Ridcully standing naked with only his pointy hat on his head. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-science-of-discworld-iii-darwins-watch/304815/29 "2005-05-27T01:18:36Z")
In posting this I was hoping it would turn into a serious debate about evolution and quantum, but I guess my high opinion of this particular book is backed by a science-geek love of the… sciency bits of the books. The bits presumably written by Messrs Stewart and Cohen. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-science-of-discworld-iii-darwins-watch/304815/30 "2005-05-27T01:30:46Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > As for character descriptions, Pratchett doesn’t dwell on them too much, so feel free to envision the characters any way you like. 🙂 A lot of people like to use Clint Eastwood as a stand-in for Sam Vimes… You know, I’ve never found an actor that fits my vision of Vimes. Eastwood is interesting, but I can’t fit him into the earlier, disillusioned drunk. Or his panic when…but that would be spoiling the book, wouldn’t it? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-science-of-discworld-iii-darwins-watch/304815/31 "2005-05-27T01:35:13Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > As for character descriptions, Pratchett doesn’t dwell on them too much, so feel free to envision the characters any way you like. 🙂 A lot of people like to use Clint Eastwood as a stand-in for Sam Vimes… Me Included. ---
**Author:** ![Nic2004](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@Nic2004](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nic2004)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-science-of-discworld-iii-darwins-watch/304815/32 "2005-05-27T12:48:17Z")
> [@Lobsang](#): > > Saw this in Ottakers. How could I _not_ buy it! > > I’ve read about a third of it in one sitting. That’s not like me, but I couldn’t put it down. It combines two of my favourite things. Discworld and the Theory\* of Evolution > This is just about the least creative OP you can imagine. But I wanted to mention the book. The science is just as rivveting as the Humour. > > [sub]\*Not ‘hypothesis’[/sub] > [@Lobsang](#): > > In posting this I was hoping it would turn into a serious debate about evolution and quantum, but I guess my high opinion of this particular book is backed by a science-geek love of the… sciency bits of the books. The bits presumably written by Messrs Stewart and Cohen. Okay. I for one think that Evolution is easily the most important series of credible observations and the most scientifically supported “Theory” in the realm of science. The multi-disipline discoveries rangeing from the study of genetics to the study of plate tectonics to archeology to antropology makes it easily one of the most supported ones. If it is in fact “wrong” then I believe that almost every branch of science is off-track. And I find this highly unlikely. As to quantum things, I am less certain I am knowlegeble enough on this topic. I tend to be more Newtonian in my thinking and have difficulty wrapping my head around many of the postions put forth in this field. How’s that, **Lobsang**? More to the OP? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-science-of-discworld-iii-darwins-watch/304815/33 "2005-05-27T14:29:26Z")
I picture Harvey Keitel as Vimes. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-science-of-discworld-iii-darwins-watch/304815/34 "2005-05-27T15:18:43Z")
> [@The Gaspode](#): > > I picture Harvey Keitel as Vimes. Too stocky. I’ve always pictured Vimes as being a bit gaunt and bony. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-science-of-discworld-iii-darwins-watch/304815/35 "2005-05-27T15:44:19Z")
Lately I’ve become convinced that [Nathan Fillion](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0277213/) would be a perfect Vimes. He’s got the look I’ve always pictured Vimes as having, and Malcolm Reynolds in _Firefly_ has an almost identical personality and outlook on life. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-science-of-discworld-iii-darwins-watch/304815/36 "2005-05-27T16:59:03Z")
Nathan Fillion seems to me to be supercool, but not Vimes. Jerry Doyle would make a good Vimes. And oddly enough, I’ve always pictured Denise Richards as Angua. ---
**Author:** ![Nic2004](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@Nic2004](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nic2004)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-science-of-discworld-iii-darwins-watch/304815/37 "2005-05-28T00:09:17Z")
How ‘bout Russell Crow? Stong, quiet, commanding, has an accent? I know… I’m new in this area. I’m just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-science-of-discworld-iii-darwins-watch/304815/38 "2005-05-28T00:16:13Z")
I have a high opinion of Russel Crow. So I would probably trust him to do a good job if cast has Vimes. Russel Crow (an Aussie or Kiwi, I am not sure which) has demonstrated great range. An American schitzophrenic mathamatician, an English Sea-captain, a roman general. That’s quite a range for a guy with the most relaxed accent of the english language on earth. ---
**Author:** ![Nic2004](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@Nic2004](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nic2004)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-science-of-discworld-iii-darwins-watch/304815/39 "2005-05-28T00:22:47Z")
Thanks Lobsang. If it happens, remember I said it first! PS- I’m really enjoying the book. Right now Vimes is teaching Sam-the-younger the tricks of the trade. ---
**Author:** ![Tarrsk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/97f17d/32.png) [@Tarrsk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarrsk)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-science-of-discworld-iii-darwins-watch/304815/40 "2005-05-28T03:27:43Z")
I could see Russell Crowe as Vimes. Maybe it’s because of my age, but I think of Clint Eastwood as a relatively old man, far older than the mid-50s that Vimes is supposed to be (I think). An older Nathan Fillion would also work great, although it’d have to be the darker “Serenity” Mal rather than the more light-hearted Mal of later episodes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-science-of-discworld-iii-darwins-watch/304815.md?page=1)