# The Scottish Independence Vote- the aftermath **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 19, 2014, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scottish-independence-vote-the-aftermath/698927 "2014-09-19T14:18:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scottish-independence-vote-the-aftermath/698927/61 "2014-09-20T06:08:23Z")
> [@PaulParkhead](#): > > But I am excused, surely, for being upset. I mean, my fellow countrymen actually _want_ this? Wow. I don’t think you need conclude, from the “No” win, that most of your fellow countrymen (even most of the “No” voters) really want to continue to be governed by the likes of Cameron or Miliband, just that they do not think that breaking up the UK is a good way to go about getting something better. ---
**Author:** ![filmstar-en](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/50afbb/32.png) [@filmstar-en](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmstar-en)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scottish-independence-vote-the-aftermath/698927/62 "2014-09-20T10:46:37Z")
It is probably worth looking at the wording of the Vow that was made by the three main parties intended to address the issue of Scottish independence: The people of Scotland want to know that all three main parties will deliver change for Scotland. WE ARE AGREED THAT: The Scottish Parliament is permanent and extensive new powers for the Parliament will be delivered by the process and to the timetable announced by our three parties, starting on 19th September. And it is our hope that the people of Scotland will be engaged directly as each party works to improve the way we are governed in the UK in the years ahead. We agree that the UK exists to ensure opportunity and security for all by sharing our resources equitably across all four nations to secure the defence, prosperity and welfare of every citizen. And because of the continuation of the Barnett allocation for resources, and the powers of the Scottish Parliament to raise revenue, we can state categorically that the final say on how much is spent on the NHS will be a matter for the Scottish Parliament. We believe that the arguments that so powerfully make the case for staying together in the UK should underpin our future as a country. We will honour those principles and values not only before the referendum but after. People want to see change. A No vote will deliver faster, safer and better change than separation. David Cameron Ed Miliband Nick Clegg What exactly has to be delivered? Open to interpretation, I think. Keep the Barnett formula, but it does not say they won’t change it and its mention is really just a statement of the current status, which is that Scotland controls the NHS in Scotland. No change there. The rest seem to be statements of principle and a process and a timetable. What are the politicans saying? > **[Scottish referendum: Gordon Brown vows 'powers will be delivered'](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29289035)** > > Gordon Brown says his promise of further powers for Scotland will be delivered to the timetable set out ahead of the independence referendum. 'Mr Brown spoke of three “lock ins” which he said demonstrated that promises would be kept: a resolution has been signed by David Cameron, Nick Clegg, Ed Miliband and Mr Brown committing to a timetable of action including draft legislation for a new Scotland Bill by the end of January. It will be lodged in the House of Commons on Monday. civil servants were already at work drawing up a timetable and detailed plans so that a “command paper” setting out new powers can be published by the end of October. a House of Commons debate to be held on Thursday 16 October to ensure the plans are on track.’ So the big deliverable is Scotland Bill by the end of January. What they need to do is ensure that whatever it contains is part of a consistent plan for the rest of the UK and does not unbalance the constitution. That is the difficult bit. Constitution reform is not a subject that can be rushed. There is no clear plan how to balance the powers in the rest of the UK. It is a difficult problem and there is no consensus within parties never mind between them. The three parties each had different ideas about what their plans for more powers for the Scottish Parliament. I would guess the Scotland Bill would be enabling legislation. There will be a UK General Election next May which will have these constitutional issues at the forefront and Wales and Northern Ireland will be looking for some more powers but only up to a point. So Scottish Parliament will keep up the pressure, but in order to deliver it, the bigger problem affecting all of the UK has to be solved. I would expect the full participation of the UK Scots MPs in solving this conundrum. Constitutional arguments usually go on for a long time, and then it has to be sold to the electorate. The Scots seem happy to have a the Scots Parliament but in England selling the idea of another layer of a politicians has not been successful in the past. If people don’t vote or do not feel engaged, these extra levels of government will become useless talking shops for local big wigs prone to feathering their own nests. The quality of existing local government is not highly regarded in England, there is little reason to suppose it will be any better at a regional level no matter how elegantly such structures fit into a constitutional settlement. People complain about Westminster centralism, but we need an alternative that is viable within England. Scotland will force this issue. I see a rocky road ahead. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scottish-independence-vote-the-aftermath/698927/63 "2014-09-20T10:52:47Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Impossible to make Scotch whisky outwith Scotland, but ther have been some good whiskies that taste as good as Scotch in a Scotch style. We shared a bottle of exceptionally good Japanese Malt last year as an experiment; it had won prizes at blind tastings. Brand is almost everything and people are buying the tradition rather than the quality. The Scotch whisky industry is about to get a rather nasty surprise. I posted this elsewhere but the competition to Scotch is getting a whole lot more intense(particularly from the US). What we are seeing is a golden period for Scotch. The industry as a whole will soon suffer badly, and with it taxation revenue fall. Something will have to give, either the whsky firms go out of business, or taxes on it will need cut drastically. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scottish-independence-vote-the-aftermath/698927/64 "2014-09-20T11:23:33Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > The Scotch whisky industry is about to get a rather nasty surprise. I posted this elsewhere but the competition to Scotch is getting a whole lot more intense(particularly from the US). What we are seeing is a golden period for Scotch. The industry as a whole will soon suffer badly, and with it taxation revenue fall. Something will have to give, either the whsky firms go out of business, or taxes on it will need cut drastically. I am old enough to have heard this argument three times already. ---
**Author:** ![Dunkelheit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dunkelheit/32/248_2.png) [@Dunkelheit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunkelheit)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scottish-independence-vote-the-aftermath/698927/65 "2014-09-20T11:24:40Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > The term you are looking for is areas of social distress. Such areas have inhabitants with no purpose in life because of that social stress. Stigmatising them as delinquents says more to me about you than about them. > > The point you are missing that historically these are Labour areas voting against Labour and for independence whereas tradition SNP areas largely voted against independence; that is the paradox. It was **LC Strawhouse** who mentioned the jokes about Yes majority areas being full of delinquents. **PaulParkhead** was refuting the stigmatisation, not supporting it. In the post **LC Strawhouse** is responding to, it looks like the No and Yes links got mixed up, which explains (his?) confusion on that matter. They each refer to a different side voting based on welfare, but the labels got switched. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scottish-independence-vote-the-aftermath/698927/66 "2014-09-20T11:32:22Z")
> [@filmstar-en](#): > > It is probably worth looking at the wording of the Vow that was made by the three main parties intended to address the issue of Scottish independence: > The people of Scotland want to know that all three main parties will deliver change for Scotland. > > WE ARE AGREED THAT: > The Scottish Parliament is permanent and extensive new powers for the Parliament will be delivered by the process and to the timetable announced by our three parties, starting on 19th September. > > And it is our hope that the people of Scotland will be engaged directly as each party works to improve the way we are governed in the UK in the years ahead. > We agree that the UK exists to ensure opportunity and security for all by sharing our resources equitably across all four nations to secure the defence, prosperity and welfare of every citizen. > > And because of the continuation of the Barnett allocation for resources, and the powers of the Scottish Parliament to raise revenue, we can state categorically that the final say on how much is spent on the NHS will be a matter for the Scottish Parliament. > > We believe that the arguments that so powerfully make the case for staying together in the UK should underpin our future as a country. We will honour those principles and values not only before the referendum but after. > People want to see change. A No vote will deliver faster, safer and better change than separation. > David Cameron > Ed Miliband > Nick Clegg > > What exactly has to be delivered? > > Open to interpretation, I think. Keep the Barnett formula, but it does not say they won’t change it and its mention is really just a statement of the current status, which is that Scotland controls the NHS in Scotland. No change there. > > The rest seem to be statements of principle and a process and a timetable. > > What are the politicans saying? > > [Scottish referendum: Gordon Brown vows 'powers will be delivered' - BBC News](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29289035) > > 'Mr Brown spoke of three “lock ins” which he said demonstrated that promises would be kept: > > a resolution has been signed by David Cameron, Nick Clegg, Ed Miliband and Mr Brown committing to a timetable of action including draft legislation for a new Scotland Bill by the end of January. It will be lodged in the House of Commons on Monday. > > civil servants were already at work drawing up a timetable and detailed plans so that a “command paper” setting out new powers can be published by the end of October. > > a House of Commons debate to be held on Thursday 16 October to ensure the plans are on track.’ > > So the big deliverable is Scotland Bill by the end of January. > > What they need to do is ensure that whatever it contains is part of a consistent plan for the rest of the UK and does not unbalance the constitution. > > That is the difficult bit. Constitution reform is not a subject that can be rushed. There is no clear plan how to balance the powers in the rest of the UK. It is a difficult problem and there is no consensus within parties never mind between them. > > The three parties each had different ideas about what their plans for more powers for the Scottish Parliament. I would guess the Scotland Bill would be enabling legislation. There will be a UK General Election next May which will have these constitutional issues at the forefront and Wales and Northern Ireland will be looking for some more powers but only up to a point. > > So Scottish Parliament will keep up the pressure, but in order to deliver it, the bigger problem affecting all of the UK has to be solved. I would expect the full participation of the UK Scots MPs in solving this conundrum. Constitutional arguments usually go on for a long time, and then it has to be sold to the electorate. The Scots seem happy to have a the Scots Parliament but in England selling the idea of another layer of a politicians has not been successful in the past. If people don’t vote or do not feel engaged, these extra levels of government will become useless talking shops for local big wigs prone to feathering their own nests. The quality of existing local government is not highly regarded in England, there is little reason to suppose it will be any better at a regional level no matter how elegantly such structures fit into a constitutional settlement. People complain about Westminster centralism, but we need an alternative that is viable within England. > > Scotland will force this issue. > > I see a rocky road ahead. That ignores the fact that the Calman Commission has been going for many years. Devolution of powers will occur- as was pointed out by several people yesterday, active reneging on either Barnett or Devo max would be like handing out a million SNP membership cards. There is already talk of covenenting- look up Scottish history. I am also predicting that Gordon Brown and Alex Salmond will be an impressive and challenging double act on the issue whoever is Prime Minister in May 2015. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scottish-independence-vote-the-aftermath/698927/67 "2014-09-20T11:44:19Z")
> [@filmstar-en](#): > > What exactly has to be delivered? > > Open to interpretation, I think. Indeed. I’m wondering what **Pjen** thinks the “Vow” (what a stupid term) actually is, and what, concretely, it promises. I see no mention of second readings of bills within the “Vow”, or any reference to Gordon Brown’s promises, which always seemed completely separate and non-binding to me. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scottish-independence-vote-the-aftermath/698927/68 "2014-09-20T11:59:18Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > I am old enough to have heard this argument three times already. Yes, then you’ll remember the previous downturns in the Scotch whisky industry. Downturns which lead to the closure of distilleries, layoffs and the falling off of tax revenue. These things invariably run in cycles of 20 years or so. This current boom period will not continue forever. Your attitude is the kind of attitude that thought Scottish shipbuilding, Steel production and heavy industry would always exist. Well, those damn Asians sure put paid to that belief. The US whisky industry is also about to make huge inroads into the Scotch whisky market. Changes in US legislation has meant 1000 small/craft distilleries have opened in the US these past few years. If even only a small number of these guys produce decent whisky then its really a huge danger to our industry. A rival industry located in a country with less taxation and better climate for quicker maturation is not an industrial rival to write off. And the thing is, the British(and Scottish) Government dont give a damn about this real and present danger. They are too content raking in taxation proceeds from Scotch. Taxation that will make our industry less competative against this new competition. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scottish-independence-vote-the-aftermath/698927/69 "2014-09-20T12:07:17Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > Yes, then you’ll remember the previous downturns in the Scotch whisky industry. Downturns which lead to the closure of distilleries, layoffs and the falling off of tax revenue. These things invariably run in cycles of 20 years or so. This current boom period will not continue forever. Your attitude is the kind of attitude that thought Scottish shipbuilding, Steel production and heavy industry would always exist. Well, those damn Asians sure put paid to that belief. > > The US whisky industry is also about to make huge inroads into the Scotch whisky market. Changes in US legislation has meant 1000 small/craft distilleries have opened in the US these past few years. If even only a small number of these guys produce decent whisky then its really a huge danger to our industry. A rival industry located in a country with less taxation and better climate for quicker maturation is not an industrial rival to write off. And the thing is, the British(and Scottish) Government dont give a damn about this real and present danger. They are too content raking in taxation proceeds from Scotch. Taxation that will make our industry less competative against this new competition. And I have seen its regular recovery from cyclical crises. I have little confidence in any social, political or financial prediction for more than a few years on the future. Events, dear boy, events. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scottish-independence-vote-the-aftermath/698927/70 "2014-09-20T12:15:28Z")
The Scottish Conservatives set up a commission under Lord Strathclyde to look into possible future plans for the devolved Scotland : [http://www.scottishconservatives.com/2014/06/strathclyde-commission-scotland-full-powers-income-tax/](http://www.scottishconservatives.com/2014/06/strathclyde-commission-scotland-full-powers-income-tax/) is a precis and this [http://www.scottishconservatives.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Strathclyde\_Commission\_14.pdf](http://www.scottishconservatives.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Strathclyde_Commission_14.pdf) is the full thing. Basically, it recommends that (almost) full control of income tax in Scotland devolves to the Scottish Parliament, along with other tax and welfare proposals. It would make a decent blueprint for the Scottish aspects of the Westminster deliberations, I think. Certainly the Scottish Conservative leader (the admirable Ruth Davidson) supports it. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scottish-independence-vote-the-aftermath/698927/71 "2014-09-20T12:22:20Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > Indeed. I’m wondering what **Pjen** thinks the “Vow” (what a stupid term) actually is, and what, concretely, it promises. I see no mention of second readings of bills within the “Vow”, or any reference to Gordon Brown’s promises, which always seemed completely separate and non-binding to me. The Vow was published on the front page of the Record and promoted together with a timeline agreed with Cameron. Reneging on it would be very difficult. How much more untrustworthy can our representatives be seen to be. It would certainly put pressure on for another referendum. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scottish-independence-vote-the-aftermath/698927/72 "2014-09-20T12:44:16Z")
**Pjen** , your side lost, and you need to accept that. The loss wasn’t even close, neither. You lost by hundreds of thousands of votes on a referendum that could be won by 50% + 1, an absurdly generous standard for those proposing such a momentous level of change, with heavy losses in supposed SNP safe seats despite the SNP pumping out record levels of nonsense during the entirety of the campaign. There’s not going to be another referendum before 2044. Just accept it, and stop with this delusion that any failure to abide by some timetable to completely change the UK’s constitution is going to result in a new referendum. It’s pretty obvious to everybody that change is coming, and the change is going to be much bigger than anything promised during the campaign by the “No” side, as it’s involving all four home nations, _as any constitutional change on this scale obviously would_. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scottish-independence-vote-the-aftermath/698927/73 "2014-09-20T12:51:41Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > The Vow was published on the front page of the Record and promoted together with a timeline agreed with Cameron. Reneging on it would be very difficult. How much more untrustworthy can our representatives be seen to be. It would certainly put pressure on for another referendum. There’s a General Election next year, so after that there’s no “reneging” involved. No-one is bound after that. Not that I think they _will_, but the new government will have to reaffirm its commitment for the process to continue. That said, one of the three signatories will almost be PM next year (it’ll be Cameron, of the good Scottish name), and will no doubt choose to be bound by it, but a putative Labour government in 2020 wouldn’t be. Your idea that politicians are bound by headline-making promises is somewhat absurd, and contradicted by everyday reality. _Every_ politician breaks promises on a regular basis. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scottish-independence-vote-the-aftermath/698927/74 "2014-09-20T13:04:42Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Centralism and the West Lothian question. You came off easy compared to my country. We had a civil war over it. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scottish-independence-vote-the-aftermath/698927/75 "2014-09-20T13:16:15Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > There’s a General Election next year, so after that there’s no “reneging” involved. No-one is bound after that. > > Not that I think they _will_, but the new government will have to reaffirm its commitment for the process to continue. That said, one of the three signatories will almost be PM next year (it’ll be Cameron, of the good Scottish name), and will no doubt choose to be bound by it, but a putative Labour government in 2020 wouldn’t be. > > Your idea that politicians are bound by headline-making promises is somewhat absurd, and contradicted by everyday reality. _Every_ politician breaks promises on a regular basis. Once again your legalistic rigidity misleads you. With skill Scottish independence can be put to bed for a generation. Consider the position in May 2016 where the Barnett Formula has been removed and no new powers had been transferred. There would be an SNP landslide in the elections to the Scottish Parliament, followed by a claim of right because the NO vote would have been seen as having been purchased by a pack of lies. Suppose by then the opinion polls show a 70/30 split in favour of YES. Now that would be a serious crisis with sterling under pressure and politicians reconfirmed as liars. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scottish-independence-vote-the-aftermath/698927/76 "2014-09-20T13:18:45Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > **Pjen** , your side lost, and you need to accept that. The loss wasn’t even close, neither. You lost by hundreds of thousands of votes on a referendum that could be won by 50% + 1, an absurdly generous standard for those proposing such a momentous level of change, with heavy losses in supposed SNP safe seats despite the SNP pumping out record levels of nonsense during the entirety of the campaign. There’s not going to be another referendum before 2044. Just accept it, and stop with this delusion that any failure to abide by some timetable to completely change the UK’s constitution is going to result in a new referendum. It’s pretty obvious to everybody that change is coming, and the change is going to be much bigger than anything promised during the campaign by the “No” side, as it’s involving all four home nations, _as any constitutional change on this scale obviously would_. As noted above, the referendum was won by promises of Financial continuity and further devolution on a strict timetable. Do not doubt that dishonourable disavowal would result on considerable chaos. ---
**Author:** ![filmstar-en](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/50afbb/32.png) [@filmstar-en](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmstar-en)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scottish-independence-vote-the-aftermath/698927/77 "2014-09-20T13:35:21Z")
An politician worth their salt could come up with some solution to modify the Barnett formula to suit their purposes. The other nations of the UK are unlikely to support a continuing subsidy to Scottish Parliament by tying it to the narrow terms of the out of date agreement. God knows we have heard quite enough about what Scots think about themselves, the UK and independence. The debate has moved on the consider the constitution of the UK and Scotland is one of four nations within that Union. All the parties will have different ideas about how to settle the constitutional issue with due reference to commitments made during the independence debate. It is no longer the preserve of the SNP and its oft-voiced and partisan pronouncements on the subject. It is not just about Scotland anymore, it is about the UK. You know, that political entity that the Scots voted for in preference to independence? It needs a little work. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scottish-independence-vote-the-aftermath/698927/78 "2014-09-20T13:36:25Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Once again your legalistic rigidity misleads you. With skill Scottish independence can be put to bed for a generation. Consider the position in May 2016 where the Barnett Formula has been removed and no new powers had been transferred. There would be an SNP landslide in the elections to the Scottish Parliament, followed by a claim of right because the NO vote would have been seen as having been purchased by a pack of lies. Suppose by then the opinion polls show a 70/30 split in favour of YES. Now that would be a serious crisis with sterling under pressure and politicians reconfirmed as liars. Yep, and that’s why they _won’t_ do it, as I said. Doesn’t mean they _can’t_. The main point being that, if Scotland starts trying to be completely irrational and acting in a way that will harm the UK, we are not bound to let it, even if doing so would break “The Vow”. Hopefully none of that will happen, because hopefully cooler heads than yours will be doing the negotiating for transfer of power, and then using that power. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scottish-independence-vote-the-aftermath/698927/79 "2014-09-20T13:38:12Z")
Gordon Brown has confirmed that a resolution to implement the Vow will be placed before Parliament on Monday. It contains the time scale set down previously and is signed by Cameron, Clegg, Miliband and Brown. > **[Gordon Brown gives timeline for Scottish devolution reforms - video](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2014/sep/20/gordon-brown-timeline-scottish-devolution-independence-video)** > > Former prime minister Gordon Brown gives a timeline for Scottish devolution reforms, as promised to the country in the leadup to Thursday's referendum ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scottish-independence-vote-the-aftermath/698927/80 "2014-09-20T13:39:12Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Yep, and that’s why they _won’t_ do it, as I said. Doesn’t mean they _can’t_. The main point being that, if Scotland starts trying to be completely irrational and acting in a way that will harm the UK, we are not bound to let it, even if doing so would break “The Vow”. Hopefully none of that will happen, because hopefully cooler heads than yours will be doing the negotiating for transfer of power, and then using that power. See the update above! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scottish-independence-vote-the-aftermath/698927.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scottish-independence-vote-the-aftermath/698927.md?page=5)