# The scourge that is the demon weed **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 4, 2018, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scourge-that-is-the-demon-weed/805860 "2018-01-04T17:54:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2018, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scourge-that-is-the-demon-weed/805860/41 "2018-01-05T15:17:32Z")
Oh, I so want to see the Rs alienate Ohio. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2018, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scourge-that-is-the-demon-weed/805860/42 "2018-01-05T15:27:07Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > You test for THC the way you tested for drunk drivers before breathalyzers and urine tests: get out, walk a line, touch your nose, count backward from 100 by threes, etc., etc. - in other words, practical tests of a persons coordination and focus. Which, by the way, is also the way you test for other sorts of impairment besides alcohol, because driving under the influence means driving under the influence of _anything_ that impairs your driving. [From here.](https://www.rwslaw.com/traffic-law-duidwi/admissibility-of-field-sobriety-tests-in-drunk-driving-cases%C2%A4/) > [@](#): > > **The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has maintained that the three tests in combination accurately predict intoxication up to 80 percent of the time.** Despite NHTSA’s vote of confidence, there has been substantial criticism of the alleged scientific validity of the tests as reliable evidence of intoxication. As a consequence, various courts have approached the admissibility of the test results differently, coming to different conclusions as to the reliability of the FSTs. > > Despite the variety of responses, the overwhelming majority of jurisdictions allow the results of FSTs to\*\* establish probable cause to arrest and charge a motorist with driving while intoxicated or under the influence.\*\* Another conclusion universally reached by state courts is that the\*\* tests are not admissible to prove a motorist’s specific blood alcohol level.\*\* Blood tests or breathalyzer tests are generally used to establish this fact. Where state courts differ is to what extent the results of FSTs, performed in real world situations, are admissible as a valid and reliable predictor of driving impairment. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2018, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scourge-that-is-the-demon-weed/805860/43 "2018-01-05T15:34:15Z")
> [@andros](#): > > For a very specific value of “sense.” I don’t see any way federal raids in an emergent state can play out well for the administration. The optics aren’t there; there’s no real anti-cannabis base to perform for, and the last dispensary raids in California played a large part in creating the Cole memo in the first place (and IMO strongly aided the legalization movement). > > But this admin is all about the short-term. I guess there might be some red-meat-to-the-trogs benefit in a few high-profile raids on “traffickers” (ie people of color) and throwing the book at “the worst offenders” (ie people of color). Well, yeah, in the sense of preventing dispensaries opening up. I just know that I wouldn’t want to be the first to open their doors in Ohio, and I certainly wouldn’t want to be the second after the first gets raided. > [@eschereal](#): > > Oh, I so want to see the Rs alienate Ohio. I would not mind seeing a bit more blue around here. The cynical side of me hopes that Sessions decides to try shutting it down. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2018, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scourge-that-is-the-demon-weed/805860/44 "2018-01-05T15:36:33Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > You test for THC the way you tested for drunk drivers before breathalyzers and urine tests: get out, walk a line, touch your nose, count backward from 100 by threes, etc., etc. - in other words, practical tests of a persons coordination and focus. Which, by the way, is also the way you test for other sorts of impairment besides alcohol, because driving under the influence means driving under the influence of _anything_ that impairs your driving. > You need a certain number of votes to overturn bad laws. The question is whether or not that critical mass is there yet. **Not even close.** You test via a blood test for THS, and as RC said, that THC may be old and not at all psychoactive. Road side sobriety test are totally ineffective for THC except for smelling burnt weed in the vehicle. Some Sativa strains are marketed as, and do in fact, increasing focus and mental awareness. Others are marketed as couch lockers (good night, sleep tight weed). There is no test. Anyone who thinks finding THC in the blood (as many states do) is an indication of intoxication, is still in the dark ages. All that proves is THC ingestion in the last 30 or so days. That’s the problem. CA has made it illegal to consume Cannabis in a car. Period. Moving, parked, whatever, smoke it in a car and you’re busted. The smell remains and cops are pretty good at sniffing it out. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2018, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scourge-that-is-the-demon-weed/805860/45 "2018-01-05T15:42:29Z")
Maybe this will all work out. I’m hoping that jurors use nullification to let the feds know how we feel on the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2018, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scourge-that-is-the-demon-weed/805860/46 "2018-01-05T15:43:11Z")
Really, the tests like walking a straight line etc. are more relevant than the blood alcohol percentage tests, and to the extent that they disagree, the problem is with the blood alcohol tests. The fundamental problem is not driving while having a certain chemical in your metabolism; the fundamental problem is driving while there exists a state of impairment which makes it unsafe for you to drive. A person could be rendered too impaired to drive by an inherent medical condition which is in no way their own fault, and we’d still want to get them off the road in that case. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2018, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scourge-that-is-the-demon-weed/805860/47 "2018-01-05T15:50:11Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > **Not even close.** You test via a blood test for THS, and as RC said, that THC may be old and not at all psychoactive. My post was NOT specifically about testing for THC. It was about testing for _impairment_. While the two topics are related they are not the same thing. You can be impaired by a lot more than cannabis or alcohol. In fact, tests for THC can detect it three weeks to a month after you use it. I agree, it’s pretty useless to determine impairment at a specific moment in time. > [@](#): > > CA has made it illegal to consume Cannabis in a car. Period. Moving, parked, whatever, smoke it in a car and you’re busted. The smell remains and cops are pretty good at sniffing it out. Then don’t smoke in the car. This is not rocket science. Hell, don’t even smoke because inhaling smoke of any sort is not healthy. There’s more than one way to use cannabis. This is like bitching you’re not allowed to drink alcohol in a car, or have open alcohol in a car where the driver can access it. Responsible people can handle the restriction. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2018, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scourge-that-is-the-demon-weed/805860/48 "2018-01-05T15:56:20Z")
One woman I used to work with said she trained as a field nurse for the marines. One day, they noticed the guy sweeping the barracks smelled of alcohol, so, to practice on the medical stuff, they tested his blood. She said that he read 0.40, which is two levels beyond lipwalking for most people, but this guy was casually doing his job like that (and probably turning his liver into mush). Blood substance levels may be a good normal baseline, but the high-tolerance outliers can end up fucked by the system. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2018, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scourge-that-is-the-demon-weed/805860/49 "2018-01-05T16:00:55Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > She said that he read 0.40, which is two levels beyond lipwalking for most people, Lipwalking? Even Urban Dictionary doesn’t recognize that. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2018, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scourge-that-is-the-demon-weed/805860/50 "2018-01-05T16:01:30Z")
Are there any statistics on accident rates for very intoxicated drivers? In my own limited experiments, I tend to be rather cautious when stoned on pot. The first and last time I drove after a gallon of beer, OTOH, I laughed as I dodged cars after running a red light! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2018, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scourge-that-is-the-demon-weed/805860/51 "2018-01-05T16:05:40Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Really, the tests like walking a straight line etc. are more relevant than the blood alcohol percentage tests, and to the extent that they disagree, the problem is with the blood alcohol tests. The fundamental problem is not driving while having a certain chemical in your metabolism; the fundamental problem is driving while there exists a state of impairment which makes it unsafe for you to drive. A person could be rendered too impaired to drive by an inherent medical condition which is in no way their own fault, and we’d still want to get them off the road in that case. Agreed, it really is about impairment, for whatever reason, not just what substances you have taken. My sister would never drive drunk, and never smoked weed, and thought that intoxicated drivers were the worst sorts of people. But, she has had several accidents due to falling asleep behind the wheel. ---
**Author:** ![SingleMalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/singlemalt/32/3961_2.png) [@SingleMalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SingleMalt)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2018, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scourge-that-is-the-demon-weed/805860/52 "2018-01-05T16:11:36Z")
It’s just my speculation, but I suspect that AG Sessions pulled this particular stunt because California just enacted their “sanctuary state” law, which has royally pissed off Sessions. This smells of a big “I’ll show you who’s boss” move, and screw Colorado and Washington and anyone else affected, because they’re all a bunch of damn hippies anyway. I am quite surprised to see a good portion of the Colorado Republican contingent, including Reps. Ken Buck and Mike Coffman, make pretty strong statements against this action. There are a lot of jobs here in Colorado that could be lost if Sessions wants to go for “maximum asshole”; friends of mine, fellow chemists, are working on methods to standardize purity and contaminant testing, for instance. It’s not just growers and sellers at risk. California is projecting upwards of $1 billion in state revenue from this first year of marijuana sales; Colorado is estimating $226 million for 2017. I don’t see Colorado going down quietly. Too much money at stake. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2018, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scourge-that-is-the-demon-weed/805860/53 "2018-01-05T16:15:08Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Maybe this will all work out. I’m hoping that jurors use nullification to let the feds know how we feel on the issue. It’s interesting that Sessions has washed his hands of this and passed it off to his subordinates to deal with. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2018, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scourge-that-is-the-demon-weed/805860/54 "2018-01-05T17:12:35Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Lipwalking? Even Urban Dictionary doesn’t recognize that. It’s when you’re face-down and too banjaxed for your limbs to work right. All you have left is to drag yourself along with your lips. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2018, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scourge-that-is-the-demon-weed/805860/55 "2018-01-05T17:16:56Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Lipwalking? Even Urban Dictionary doesn’t recognize that. Geez, I thought that was common vernacular. Now you are going to tell me that no one says “faced” either. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2018, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scourge-that-is-the-demon-weed/805860/56 "2018-01-05T17:18:55Z")
Ballwalking. A Naval tradition. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2018, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scourge-that-is-the-demon-weed/805860/57 "2018-01-05T17:38:53Z")
Instead of capriciously deciding to enforce or not enforce law congress could legalize it. That’s not a terribly hard concept to grasp. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2018, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scourge-that-is-the-demon-weed/805860/58 "2018-01-05T17:41:30Z")
I looked at the original vote on establishing Schedule I in the early '70s – it was approved unanimously, with almost all the Democrats voting “present”. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2018, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scourge-that-is-the-demon-weed/805860/59 "2018-01-05T17:42:20Z")
I don’t agree with the administration’s decision. I think it’s stupid, short-sighted, and out of touch with _de facto_ reality. Unfortunately, I saw this coming years ago. My boss’s son moved out to Colorado to get into the weed business. I warned him that getting into the field while federal prohibitions were still in place was inherently more risky than most businesses. The feds could have done this just as soon as 45 got settled in. If you work in the field of state-legal cannabis, the feds could shut you down at any time - or worse. I support legal cannabis 100%, especially as it’s currently working in Colorado. (I’m not a smoker at all, but I visited a pot shop in Bailey on a lark and was really impressed by how well-run it was.) That said, this could have happened at any time. Anyone who sunk a lot of money into the business was taking a huge risk. I applaud their courage to carry on when they knew this could happen. I just hope that people don’t get hurt. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2018, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scourge-that-is-the-demon-weed/805860/60 "2018-01-05T17:49:40Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Instead of capriciously deciding to enforce or not enforce law congress could legalize it. That’s not a terribly hard concept to grasp. Good point, I have talked to my senators and congressman about the subject. My democratic senator agrees, my republican senator and congressman have not returned my calls. Have you talked to your congressional representatives? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scourge-that-is-the-demon-weed/805860.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scourge-that-is-the-demon-weed/805860.md?page=4)