# "The Scream" stolen! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 22, 2004, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scream-stolen/260962 "2004-08-22T11:02:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2004, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scream-stolen/260962/21 "2004-08-22T19:16:45Z")
[**Guanolad** ’s link](http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-1148547,00.html) The commas were fine, but he had a backslash in the closing tag, instead of a forward slash. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2004, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scream-stolen/260962/22 "2004-08-22T19:33:03Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > Perhaps they just got a new apartment and are trying to liven up the dull old place. Crap. I was _certain_ it was going to match the sofa. ---
**Author:** ![Murcielago](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@Murcielago](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Murcielago)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2004, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scream-stolen/260962/23 "2004-08-22T19:36:07Z")
From the above link: " [Munch] made several copies of his key works, including ‘The Scream’. " Ah hell. Now, in my mind, the name Edvard Munch will be linked up with the name Thomas Kinkade. Try that one out for cognitive dissonance. ---
**Author:** ![Dan\_Norder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4af34b/32.png) [@Dan\_Norder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dan_Norder)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2004, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scream-stolen/260962/24 "2004-08-22T22:18:30Z")
It’s not difficult to rob paintings (including the decent one The Madonna as well, by the way) when the museum has less security than a Taco Bell restaurant. Hundred million dollars worth of paintings gone because the museum had no guns, no walls coming down, no lasers, no alarms of any sort. And considering that another copy of The Scream was stolen in 1994, you’d think maybe they’d want to try to stop it from happening again? Gah. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2004, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scream-stolen/260962/25 "2004-08-22T22:26:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Two masked thieves pulled the work and another painting, Madonna, off the wall as stunned visitors watched on Sunday. Either the reporter is apostrophizing a certain well known American pop star, or she’s involved somehow. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2004, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scream-stolen/260962/26 "2004-08-22T22:39:59Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > [**Guanolad** ’s link](http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-1148547,00.html) > The commas were fine, but he had a backslash in the closing tag, instead of a forward slash. D’oh! Thanks. You know, I thought something was wrong when I hit that key too. You may now continue with your regularly scheduled art theft speculation. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scream-stolen/260962/27 "2004-08-23T01:12:13Z")
Ah, shit…I just noticed that they swiped [Madonna](http://www.museumsnett.no/nasjonalgalleriet/munch/eng/innhold/ngm00841.html) as well. Now THAT’S a really good painting. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scream-stolen/260962/28 "2004-08-23T02:27:09Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > This is stupid. You can’t sell these works on the black market, what the hell do they think they’re going to achieve? Yes, you can. In fact, they are often sold before they are stolen. “Stolen to order” is the term used. There are a lot of rich people with low morals who are perfectly happy to pay big bucks for a ‘hot’ painting, even though they can’t publicly admit to possessing it. Such collectors are wierd. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scream-stolen/260962/29 "2004-08-23T02:37:29Z")
> [@indecisive1](#): > > knowing that at least someone, somewhere, sometime understood. Damn straight. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scream-stolen/260962/30 "2004-08-23T02:44:01Z")
It’s a weird coincidence; I had been reading about the 1994 theft about an hour before the new theft occurred. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scream-stolen/260962/31 "2004-08-23T03:10:15Z")
> [@](#): > > Little Nemo: > It’s a weird coincidence; I had been reading about the 1994 theft about an hour before the new theft occurred. And for how long did you think you could keep that information a secret? (Any Interpol Dopers here? Investigate Nemo.) And **Ukulele Ike** , yeah I’d rather have that **Madonna** painting more than the “Scream”. Of course I would _never_ consider stealing that painting _nor_ would I have ordered its being stolen. Hold on a moment … Interpol is at the door. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scream-stolen/260962/32 "2004-08-23T03:49:45Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Yes, you can. In fact, they are often sold before they are stolen. “Stolen to order” is the term used. > > There are a lot of rich people with low morals who are perfectly happy to pay big bucks for a ‘hot’ painting, even though they can’t publicly admit to possessing it. Such collectors are wierd. This is strangely and sadly true. I work in a museum, and we hear tales of this occasionally. Usually, it’s an inside job, an employee who coveted a particular item. Usually, thefts of this kind are solved relatively quickly, and the item returned without incident. Sometimes, however, they’re gone for years. (Sometimes such items are returned after the death of the owner.) Munch’s painting could wind up in the back of someone’s closet, taken out only once the shades are drawn, gloated over in the wee hours by someone who whispers, “It’s mine! All mine!” It happened at my museum, years ago. A certain item was taken from our collection. It wasn’t famous, so an ordinary person wouldn’t recognize its value, but it would be almost impossible to sell, because the only people who would be willing to pay the kind of price it could command would be serious collectors. For some types of items, the serious collectors are relatively few in number, and an item of importance suddenly appearing on the market, combined with the fact that rumors of thefts get around pretty quickly, would make such a venture most risky, unless you had a buyer in mind before the robbery. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scream-stolen/260962/33 "2004-08-23T05:01:46Z")
[Here’s some more news.](http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/08/22/scream.theft/index.html) > [@CNN](#): > > The picture frames were later found in another part of the city with the pictures cut out. Authorities have found the getaway car and are using video footage of Sunday’s robbery in an effort to track down the thieves, police said. > > […] > > Sunday’s theft from took guards and patrons by surprise. > > An eyewitness said one man dressed in black rushed towards the “Madonna” painting, “grabbed that off the wall and then started banging it against the wall and against the ground because the gray strings weren’t breaking off for him.” > > “He then saw ‘The Scream’, ran towards that and grabbed that off the wall and then he started rushing out the front and we started rushing out the back.” > > “The Scream” was attached to the wall by wires, witnesses said, noting that no alarm bell could be heard when the painting was taken. They also said guards did not prevent the robbers from fleeing with the paintings. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scream-stolen/260962/34 "2004-08-23T05:07:21Z")
:smack: I shudder to think of those great paintings being CUT out of their frames. Bastards. Guess I’m glad that no patrons were killed, but…how big is this museum? If you pulled that at the Met or someplace you’d have to run miles and miles to get out of there, and the guards, although I believe they’re also unarmed, have these new-fangled things called ‘walkie-talkes’ which they can use to call the door guards who, believe me, are armed. Also, the really famous stuff often has a rope or something in front of it so you can’t get really close to it. Oh well. If these robbers are that dumb, the paintings will either get recovered in a week–or never ever seen again. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scream-stolen/260962/35 "2004-08-23T05:43:40Z")
> [@](#): > > An eyewitness said one man dressed in black rushed towards the “Madonna” painting, “grabbed that off the wall and then started banging it against the wall and against the ground because the gray strings weren’t breaking off for him.” I whimpered out loud reading that. ---
**Author:** ![Dan\_Norder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4af34b/32.png) [@Dan\_Norder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dan_Norder)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scream-stolen/260962/36 "2004-08-23T05:53:44Z")
You know, they shoot people in some places for poaching endangered species, I wouldn’t mind the death penalty for harming important works of art too. And I could probably be talked into it for idiot museum directors and guards who take no effort whatsoever to protect them. ---
**Author:** ![hildea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ebca7d/32.png) [@hildea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hildea)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scream-stolen/260962/37 "2004-08-23T06:23:06Z")
☹ > [@Mehitabel](#): > > Guess I’m glad that no patrons were killed, but…how big is this museum? Not very big. According to a drawing in a newspaper today there’s only a small cafe and a short stretch of corridor between the entrance and the “1890”-room, where these paintings were. I haven’t been at the [Munch museum](http://www.munch.museum.no/) since I was a small kid, but I remember it as mercifully small 🙂 . (I much preferred the dinosaur museum nearby.) > [@Mehitabel](#): > > …the guards, although I believe they’re also unarmed, have these new-fangled things called ‘walkie-talkes’ which they can use to call the door guards who, believe me, are armed. Um, sure about that? I really, really, really doubt there are armed museum guards anywhere in Norway. Even the police don’t normally carry weapons. (AFAIK, they have guns in the police cars, but locked in a box or something.) The 1994-theft was from the National Gallery, btw, not the Munch Museum. So lessons learned from that theft might not have been applied to other museums. Heh, and call me a wimpy liberal if you like, but I prefer risk loosing a national treasure once in a while (even if it hurts) than increasing the number of people killed. There are enough deaths on this planet. A thing, no matter how precious and irreplacable, isn’t worth the death of a sinlge human being to me. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scream-stolen/260962/38 "2004-08-23T06:26:49Z")
Hey, I was at that museum a couple of years ago! I remember thinking the security was sketchy. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scream-stolen/260962/39 "2004-08-23T06:51:32Z")
> [@Mehitabel](#): > > THE GUARDS WERE NOT ARMED. Time for another thread on gun control laws in Great Debates. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scream-stolen/260962/40 "2004-08-23T07:04:38Z")
In defense of the museum (from the first link) > [@](#): > > Ms Christofferson said the guards were more concerned with protecting visitors than the paintings. > > The museum had not long been open when the thieves struck > “When they threaten the guards with a gun there is not much to be done,” she told the BBC. > > “They were more concerned with the security of the visitors.” Much as this sucks horribly, I’m not sure I can find fault with that. If the guards had pulled out guns, this could’ve turned into a bloodbath. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scream-stolen/260962.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-scream-stolen/260962.md?page=3)