# The SDMB Baseball Hall of Fame Project: Center Fielders **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** baseball-mlb\ **Created:** [March 31, 2017, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-center-fielders/783441 "2017-03-31T19:33:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2017, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-center-fielders/783441/1 "2017-03-31T19:33:07Z")
Hello, and welcome back to the SDMB Baseball Hall of Fame Project. Opening Day is soon! In this thread we’ll be voting in Center Fielders. _“Put me in coach, I’m ready to play today Look at me, I can be Center field”_ - John Fogerty If you’d like to see past rounds of voting, please see: [Round 1: The Inner Circle](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=811859) [Round 2: Catchers](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=812948&highlight=catchers) [Round 3: First Basemen](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=813687) [Round 4: Second Basemen](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=815248) [Round 5: Third Basemen](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=816092) [Round 6: Shortstops](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=818442) [Round 7: Left Fielders](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=481932&highlight=fielders) Please cast a ballot for ten center fielders, no more and no less. A helpful list of center fielders is provided. **Please remember however that you may vote for anyone who has ever played any center field in the entire history of major league baseball or major Negro League professional play. The list below is an aid to help your memory; it does not limit your choices.** If I have made an egregious omission, please ask me to add the name. The following players are not eligible in this vote because they have already been elected to the SDMB Hall Of Fame: **Ty Cobb, Willie Mays, Mickey Mantle, Rickey Henderson, and Stan Musial** (all elected on Inner Circle ballot.) Here is a list of center fielders. Please have fun! Ken Griffey, Jr. Tris Speaker Chet Lemon Hack Wilson Earle Combs Eric Davis Oscar Charleston Garry Maddox Tris Speaker Monte Irvin Amos Otis Vada Pinson Bernie Williams Andy Van Slyke Hugh Duffy Johnny Damon Joe DiMaggio Lenny Dykstra Brett Butler (not the comedienne) Martin Dihigo Duke Snider James “Cool Papa” Bell Andrew McCutcheon Carlos Beltran Edd Roush Steve Finley Kenny Lofton Andruw Jones Cristobal Torriente Wally Berger Curt Flood Richie Ashburn Andre Dawson Max Carey Billy Hamilton (the 19th century player) Jim Edmonds Earl Averill Kirby Puckett Devon White Curtis Granderson Willie Wilson Torii Hunter Jimmie Wynn Willie Davis Mike Trout Larry Doby Fred Lynn Dale Murphy Max Carey Ellis Burks Cesar Cedeno Mike Cameron ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2017, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-center-fielders/783441/2 "2017-03-31T19:49:21Z")
Ken Griffey, Jr. Kirby Puckett Tris Speaker Cool Papa Bell Joe DiMaggio Duke Snider Andre Dawson Carlos Beltran Kenny Lofton Richie Ashburn ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2017, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-center-fielders/783441/3 "2017-03-31T19:54:49Z")
**Joe DiMaggio** Ken Griffey, Jr. Tris Speaker Duke Snider Richie Ashburn Billy Hamilton (the 19th century player) I’ll just vote for 6. BTW, you listed Tris Speaker twice. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2017, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-center-fielders/783441/4 "2017-03-31T19:58:50Z")
Again, in order of merit: Tris Speaker Joe DiMaggio Ken Griffey [gap] Duke Snider [BIG gap] Richie Ashburn Andre Dawson Carlos Beltran Kenny Lofton Jim Edmonds Jim Wynn Virtually impossible to split the top 3. Despite the timeline Speaker still looks pretty great. DiMaggio’s wartime credit puts him over Junior, who was pretty mundane past age 30 (has any originally great fielder seen such a precipitous decline with the glove?). Duke was a slight cut below, all told; I’m not sure he would be as good in another time or place or team. Thanks in part to the 3 immortals getting in on the immortal’s ballot, 5 through 10 were pretty much a tossup. All had flaws of one sort or another; none had anything approaching historical peaks or career accomplishments. Since he had his best seasons here, I classified Andre as a CFer… Simply a matter of which poison to take. I like Wynn’s peak despite his short career, Andre’s D when young despite his low OBP, Lofton’s glove despite his relative lack of power. Edmonds and Beltran were very good in a lot of areas, great in none. But the competition included a borderline old timer (Sliding Billy Hamilton), a guy the stats insist had the best glove ever (Andruw Jones), but where I strongly suspect there’s some systematic bias there, a couple of guys who also couldn’t draw a walk (Willie Davis & Puckett) that Andre was clearly superior to overall, and a postwar African American whom I really couldn’t give any color line credit (Larry Doby). ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2017, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-center-fielders/783441/5 "2017-03-31T20:45:50Z")
Ken Griffey, Jr. Joe DiMaggio Tris Speaker Duke Snider Richie Ashburn Andre Dawson Andruw Jones Carlos Beltran Kirby Puckett Billy Hamilton I enjoy these, because it makes me dig into the stats and the history for players I know very little about. Once he became a full-time player, Tris Speaker had a WAR of 5 or more in 17 out of the next 18 seasons. He had some incredible batting averages, even by the standards of the dead-ball era, hitting .380 or above five times (and, yet, only leading the AL once, due to Cobb), as well as apparently being an excellent fielder. Wow. Snider played for 18 years, but really had 8 good years ('50-'57), though those were very good years, indeed. Once I got beyond my first five picks on the list above, I was less enthused about the guys I was finding (and maybe that’s a function of the four best CFs already being in the Inner Circle). - Beltran and Jones seem to have had a few very good seasons, but mostly just long careers where they were fairly reliable, though not spectacularly so. - Dawson was very good with the Expos, and had his transcendent MVP season in '87 with the Cubs, but then played on bad knees for another decade. - I loved watching Puckett play, and he too had some great years, but he, of course, was forced to retire early due to glaucoma. But, then, I thought, maybe I’m grading too harshly; Puckett and Dawson are both in the actual HOF, and Beltran and Jones are both very, very good. So, they make my list, as well as Billy Hamilton, about whom I knew very little (and about whom, apparently, very little is known!), but who was evidently one of the top players of his era. Edit: I missed DiMaggio on my original list, and had Trout as my #10. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2017, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-center-fielders/783441/6 "2017-03-31T23:38:17Z")
Don’t have time to vote yet (I’ll get to it), but just wanted to point out your Left Fielder link is to the old round. The correct one is [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=819884](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=819884). ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2017, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-center-fielders/783441/7 "2017-03-31T23:44:38Z")
Ken Griffey, Jr. Tris Speaker Oscar Charleston Joe DiMaggio Duke Snider James “Cool Papa” Bell Carlos Beltran Kenny Lofton Billy Hamilton Mike Trout Thought about Jim Wynn as a homer Astros fan, but you know who has almost as many career WAR as Wynn? Mike Trout. (55 to 48-ish). ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2017, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-center-fielders/783441/8 "2017-04-01T19:58:04Z")
My choices: Tris Speaker Oscar Charleston Joe DiMaggio Ken Griffey, Jr. Carlos Beltran Duke Snider Cool Papa Bell Kenny Lofton Richie Ashburn Billy Hamilton Making the call at the bottom of the list was hard. LARRY DOBY: Doby was 23 when he came up, about the same age as Kenny Lofton, so as someone else pointed out it’s hard to credit him much for the color line, and his peak wasn’t stupid high (like Jackie Robinson’s was.) True story; after his first, relatively unsuccessful season, the following spring training Tris Speaker saw Doby in the Indians’ camp and questioned why the hell the Indians were playing a man at second base who was obviously an outfielder. They moved him to outfield, and he became a great player. Tris Speaker knew a thing or two about the outfield. ANDRUW JONES: The argument for Andruw Jones rests very heavily on him being more or less the greatest defensive center fielder of all time. I am very skeptical he was that good. MIKE TROUT: If Mike Trout just shows up for five more years he’s a Hall of Famer. He doesn’t even have to be an All-Star; if he’'s just pretty good, he’s in. But we’ll elect him later. ANDRE DAWSON: Really good for a long time. I guess I have to explain why Lofton and not Dawson, and I dunno. Lofton contributed to more winning teams - a LOT of winning teams - and that counts for something, right? I almost dumped Snider too. Snider had an interesting career path; until age 30 he was awesome. Then the Dodgers moved to Los Angeles, and Snider was never a great player again. He wasn’t BAD, but he wasn’t anywhere near great. Maybe he just aged, but maybe he was particularly suited to Ebbetts Field. If you wanted to argue he doesn’t make the top 10, to be honest, I would not argue very strongly against you. But he had a hell of a peak, and he contributed to many winning teams. He twice hit four home runs in a World Series. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2017, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-center-fielders/783441/9 "2017-04-01T23:06:08Z")
Ken Griffey, Jr. Tris Speaker Oscar Charleston Joe DiMaggio Duke Snider James “Cool Papa” Bell Richie Ashburn Andre Dawson Earl Averill Kirby Puckett ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2017, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-center-fielders/783441/10 "2017-04-02T01:46:19Z")
Forgot about Oscar Charleston. I think it is quite likely he was on the level of Mays or Cobb. I am less sanguine about Cool Papa Bell, who might have been Lofton’s equal-maybe. So changing ballot: Tris Speaker Joe DiMaggio Ken Griffey Duke Snider Richie Ashburn Andre Dawson Carlos Beltran Kenny Lofton Jim Edmonds Oscar Charleston The Duke’s argument is kind of a two-edged sword. Yeah, he probably got a lot of help from Ebbets AND the endless parade of righthanders the righty-heavy Brooklyn lineup routinely fielded (only c. 1/6th of his PA’s were against lefties, and he definitely was a poorer hitter vs. them). But he took all of that and turned it into value, and it all led to real wins. We could do the same with Wade Boggs say, but, again, all those doubles and super high OBP led to real runs and real wins. I think a player who can take big advantage of his home park deserves credit for doing so. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-center-fielders/783441/11 "2017-04-03T13:55:52Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > The Duke’s argument is kind of a two-edged sword. Yeah, he probably got a lot of help from Ebbets AND the endless parade of righthanders the righty-heavy Brooklyn lineup routinely fielded (only c. 1/6th of his PA’s were against lefties, and he definitely was a poorer hitter vs. them). But he took all of that and turned it into value, and it all led to real wins. We could do the same with Wade Boggs say, but, again, all those doubles and super high OBP led to real runs and real wins. I think a player who can take big advantage of his home park deserves credit for doing so. The poster child for this is Mel Ott, who will come up in the RF ballot (and will hopefully be elected; he was an awesome player.) Ott hit 328 home runs at home, 188 away. I am quite certain that that is the biggest home/road home run split of any player in baseball history who hit a lot of home runs - Chuck Klein is right up there, I guess. Gavvy Cravath had a way bigger split but he only hit 119 homers (he did win six home run titles though, and was the first 20th century player to hit 20 in a season.) Ott actually had a higher batting average and way more doubles on the road; he was quite deliberately trying to pull the ball down the line at home, which was Polo Grounds with its ridiculously short fences down the line and cavernous center field. This would count against Ott, be something you;d have to adjust for, if EVERYONE was hitting eighty percent mopre homers in Polo Grounds. But Ott was the only guy who really did this consistently. No one else did. Ott, uniquely, could take advantage of his home park’s weird dimensions and hit home runs and win games. He wouldn’t have been as great a hitter if he played in a ballpark with conventional dimensions. But he didn’t, he played in the Polo Grounds, and used it to his team’s advantage. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-center-fielders/783441/12 "2017-04-03T14:10:02Z")
I’m not claiming that he was the greatest, or even in the top ten, but I was disappointed that the name [Paul Blair](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Blair_(baseball)) didn’t even appear in this thread until I put it here. He was a joy to watch. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-center-fielders/783441/13 "2017-04-03T14:53:17Z")
Since the thread in question doesn’t exist yet, I’ll just say in passing that one year (late in his career) Ott hit 18 home runs at home. And zero on the road. ---
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2017, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-center-fielders/783441/14 "2017-04-04T20:18:17Z")
Tris Speaker Oscar Charleston Garry Maddox Hugh Duffy Joe DiMaggio Martin Dihigo Duke Snider James “Cool Papa” Bell Earl Averill Mike Trout Might be a little early in his career for Trout to be elected, but I just couldn’t bring myself to delete his name. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2017, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-center-fielders/783441/15 "2017-04-19T15:39:54Z")
Tris Speaker Joe DiMaggio Ken Griffey, Jr. Kirby Puckett Richie Ashburn Oscar Charleston Turkey Stearnes Cool Papa Bell Mike Trout Duke Snider I went with Turkey again (I had him on my LF ballot, but he primarily played CF) because I think he was a great player, he has one of the best baseball nicknames, and he was a character as [RickJay mentioned](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20023608&postcount=22). I wasn’t excited about including the Duke, but couldn’t find anyone I thought deserved it more. Lofton was the last cut. And it might be a little early for Mike Trout, but I obviously had to include him (although my user name has nothing to do with him). ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2017, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-center-fielders/783441/16 "2017-04-19T19:33:23Z")
> [@What Exit?](#): > > BTW, you listed Tris Speaker twice. He deserves two votes. Guy could have been in on the second basemen’s ballot, even if he never played a game there. Tris Speaker Ken Griffey, Jr. Oscar Charleston Joe DiMaggio Duke Snyder Cool Papa Bell Kenny Lofton Kirby Puckett Larry Doby Mike Trout ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-center-fielders/783441/17 "2017-04-24T19:54:09Z")
Ken Griffey, Jr. Tris Speaker Hack Wilson Earle Combs Oscar Charleston Joe DiMaggio James “Cool Papa” Bell Carlos Beltran Andre Dawson Dale Murphy ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2017, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-center-fielders/783441/18 "2017-05-26T17:57:12Z")
Anyone willing to tally things up? I will if nobody else bites, and move onto RF… ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-center-fielders/783441/19 "2017-06-01T18:17:58Z")
Tell you what: I’ll tally, and you post the RF thread. 11 (Unanimous) : Tris “Grey Eagle” Speaker, Joseph “Joltin’ Joe” DiMaggio 10: Ken “Junior” Griffey Jr. 9: Edwin “Duke” Snider 8: James “Cool Papa” Bell, Oscar Charleston 7: Richie “Putt Putt” Ashburn 6: Carlos “Sr. Octubre” Beltran 5: Kenneth “Kenny” Lofton, Kirby “Puck” Puckett, Andre “The Hawk” Dawson I’m sorry, Oscar Charleston: I’ve never heard of, and Google could not provide, a nickname for you. Billy Hamilton and Mike Trout both got four votes, Earl Averill nabbed two, ten more players got one, and Jim Wynn got zero.