# The SDMB Baseball Hall of Fame Project, Part One: The Inner Circle **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** baseball-mlb\ **Created:** [November 24, 2016, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-part-one-the-inner-circle/772891 "2016-11-24T15:47:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-part-one-the-inner-circle/772891/1 "2016-11-24T15:47:36Z")
A few years ago I tried to create an SDMB Hall of Fame. It was derailed by an argument by malcontents who didn’t like the voting structure. Other threads: [Part 2: Catchers](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=19848251) [Part 3: First Basemen](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=813687) Let’s try again! I am some good ideas. Today’s ballot is THE INNER CIRCLE. I’ll fully explain it in Post 2. To understand the voting, let me lay out how this is going to work - this will take months to do, and we’re in no rush. I am designing the vote to elect fewer people than are in the Hall of Fame now, but still a fair number, probably about 190. We are going to hold a series of votes, each its own thread. They will be: 1. The Inner Circle “The Inner Circle” vote will be different from the subsequent votes in that there will be no ballot. You will be asked to vote for 15 players, any 15 players, you want. The top 15 vote getters are immediately inducted into the SDMB Baseball Hall of Fame and are removed from future ballots. Players who come close will be so noted on whatever subsequent ballot they are eligible for. Basically this ballot is meant to get the very greatest out of the way. I expect for instance that Babe Ruth will go in. 1. Catchers 2. First Basemen 3. Second Basemen 4. Third Basemen 5. Shortstops 6. Left Fielders 7. Center Fielders 8. Right Fielders 9. Multi-Position and DH Stars In the positional votes you will be presented with ballots of as many players I can think of who could reasonably get a vote. If a player noted for playing that position does not appear, the OP will note (to the best of my memory) why that player isn’t there. (For instance, you may wonder why Rod Carew isn’t on the ballot for first basemen, but I’ll explain he’s on the second basemen ballot, or whatever.) The top ten vote getters are promptly inducted no matter what percentage of votes they get, except that I reserve the right to change that number for Vote 10. Since I am imperfect, if I forget someone obvious, please say so. 1. Pitchers, Part 1 2. Pitchers, Part 2 The pitching ballots will be similar to the position player ballots but we will break pitchers up into groups to make it easier to manage. There may be more than two parts. We’ll see. 1. Runoff 1 2. Runoff 2 In the Runoff votes, players who were highly ranked but missed election on previous ballots will be given a second chance. This is where some positions will probably be more represented than others, thus correcting the artificial balance created by the voting. 1. Special Elections We will then conduct a few special ballots, including (At a minimum) Negro League baseball. I am disinclined to have elections for broadcasters, writers, and executives, but I am open to my mind being changed if people want that. The INNER CIRCLE ballot is further explained in the next post. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-part-one-the-inner-circle/772891/2 "2016-11-24T15:54:14Z")
PART ONE: The Inner Circle The Inner Circle ballot is unlike any other. Here you are asked to vote for 15 players. Exactly 15; no more, and no less. The top 15 vote getters are immediate inductees into the SDMB Hall of Fame. The order in which you state the names is not relevant. You may choose anyone who has ever played professional baseball in the Major Leagues or Negro Leagues. (Note that the Negro Leagues will have their own election, too, if you are worried they won’t get a shot.) Any player is eligible, whether or not they are current active, retired, or dead; whether they are eligible for the real life Hall of Fame or not; anyone. This is your chance to simply state who you think the 15 greatest players of all time are. As there are more upcoming ballots, the guy who just misses your ballot will probably be elected anyway, so don’t panic. Please name 15 players. Go! ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-part-one-the-inner-circle/772891/3 "2016-11-24T16:40:34Z")
Ty Cobb Babe Ruth Lou Gehrig Cy Young Walter Johnson Grover Cleveland (Pete) Alexander Rogers Hornsby Stan Musial Ted Williams Willie Mays Hank Aaron Cal Ripken Barry Bonds Roger Clemens Alex Rodriguez ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-part-one-the-inner-circle/772891/4 "2016-11-24T17:27:33Z")
Babe Ruth Willie Mays Lou Gehrig Barry Bonds Ted Williams Walter Johnson Greg Maddux A-Rod (crap, I hate admitting that) Lefty Grove Roger Clemens Ty Cobb Honus Wagner Mickey Mantle Hank Aaron Stan Musial ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-part-one-the-inner-circle/772891/5 "2016-11-24T17:32:49Z")
1. Cy Young 2. Babe Ruth 3. Lou Gehrig 4. Cap Anson 5. Ty Cobb 6. Lefty Grove 7. Walter Johnson 8. Ted Williams 9. Willie Mays 10. Hank Aaron 11. Jackie Robinson 12. Joe DiMaggio 13. Honus Wagner 14. Stan Musial 15. Pete Rose ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-part-one-the-inner-circle/772891/6 "2016-11-24T17:47:30Z")
Babe Ruth Willie Mays Ted Williams Ty Cobb Jackie Robinson Walter Johnson Cy Young Hank Aaron Honus Wagner Stan Musial Mike Schmidt Roger Clemens Lou Gehrig Lefty Grove Barry Bonds ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-part-one-the-inner-circle/772891/7 "2016-11-24T18:20:54Z")
I’d suggest that people be encouraged to justify their ballots, and not just toss them onto the ballot, undiscussed. I’d also prefer a pre-voting debate thread where the borderline cases can be tossed back and forth. Decided to go with 10 position players, 5 pitchers, none relievers: Babe Ruth Barry Bonds Willie Mays Mickey Mantle Stan Musial Ted Williams Hank Aaron Honus Wagner Ty Cobb Rickey Henderson Pedro Martinez Roger Clemens Walter Johnson Randy Johnson Greg Maddux Note: I timeline fairly heavily, and do believe that the old timers would probably have 20-30% less value (WAR of however else you wish to quantify them), which is why Eddie Collins and Tris Speaker (who would be 16th for me-or Cy Young or Pete Alexander) aren’t on there. Cobb and Wagner would still be superstars today tho despite that. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-part-one-the-inner-circle/772891/8 "2016-11-24T18:24:35Z")
I don’t think having additional threads on top of the voting threads will help, so we’ll go with what it is now. But by all means discuss your votes. I went with a rough mix of great players while trying to balance - Players from different times and - Different positions Hence Schmidt, a third baseman and a player of the 70s-80s, but not Mickey Mantle, probably a greater player but at a well represented position and time. ---
**Author:** ![drm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e57/32.png) [@drm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drm)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-part-one-the-inner-circle/772891/9 "2016-11-24T18:52:59Z")
Babe Ruth Hank Aaron Ty Cobb Walter Johnson Ted Williams Jackie Robinson Cy Young Mickey Mantle Lou Gehrig Tom Seaver Bob Gibson Barry Bonds Roger Clemens Mike Schmidt Stan Musial ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-part-one-the-inner-circle/772891/10 "2016-11-24T19:47:44Z")
1.Babe Ruth 2.Ty Cobb 3.Ted Williams 4.Willie Mays 5. Cy Young 6. Mickey Mantle 7. Hank Aaron. 8. Lou Gehrig. 9. Honus Wagner 10. Greg Maddux 11.Walter Johnson. 12. Randy Johnson 13. Stan Musial 14. Rickey Henderson 15. Al Kaline ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-part-one-the-inner-circle/772891/11 "2016-11-24T19:52:04Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > I’d also prefer a pre-voting debate thread where the borderline cases can be tossed back and forth. I don’t expect anyone in this round to be a borderline case. At least, I haven’t seen any names thrown out so far that I haven’t agreed, “Yep, he’s a Hall of Famer.” ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-part-one-the-inner-circle/772891/12 "2016-11-24T20:38:52Z")
Barry Bonds Willie Mays Hank Aaron Alex Rodriquez Ted Williams Rickey Henderson Roger Clemens Joe Morgan Pedro Martinez Johnny Bench Tom Seaver Albert Pujols Frank Robinson Mike Schmidt Mickey Mantle ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-part-one-the-inner-circle/772891/13 "2016-11-24T20:48:39Z")
Babe Ruth Lou Gehrig Joe DiMaggio Ted Williams Ty Cobb Cy Young Willie Mays Hank Aaron Jackie Robinson Barry Bonds Pete Rose Mickey Mantle Stan Musial Honus Wagner Mel Ott ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-part-one-the-inner-circle/772891/14 "2016-11-24T21:01:27Z")
Off top of head: Ruth Bonds Teddy Ballgame Mays Clemens Cy Young Cobb Musial Mantle Rickey Henderson Gehrig Well that’s 11. Four more… Feel like at least two should be pitchers. After playing with BR’s ranking by WAR: Honus Wagner (facepalm at not thinking of him) Hank Aaron (didn’t realize he was _that_ good.) Lefty Grove Walter Johnson Feel like Josh Gibson and Satchel Paige should go somewhere on this list, but who gets kicked? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-part-one-the-inner-circle/772891/15 "2016-11-24T21:55:42Z")
Babe Ruth Barry Bonds Roger Clemens Walter Johnson Ted Williams Albert Pujols Greg Maddux Honus Wagner Ty Cobb Lefty Grove Charles Radbourne Willie Mays Mickey Mantle Hank Aaron Johnny Bench ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-part-one-the-inner-circle/772891/16 "2016-11-24T23:18:29Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > Feel like Josh Gibson and Satchel Paige should go somewhere on this list, but who gets kicked? Negro League players. Have a separate election for them? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2016, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-part-one-the-inner-circle/772891/17 "2016-11-25T20:27:16Z")
Please see the OP. There will be a ballot for Negro League players (who are not elected in previous ballots.) ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-part-one-the-inner-circle/772891/18 "2016-11-27T00:47:16Z")
Mike Schmidt Lefty Grove Willie Mays Henry Aaron Walter Johnson Ty Cobb Babe Ruth Joe Morgan Honus Wagner Stan Musial Ted Williams Rickey Henderson Greg Maddux Rogers Hornsby Randy Johnson Lots more where those guys came from… ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-part-one-the-inner-circle/772891/19 "2016-11-27T01:13:35Z")
Babe Ruth Ty Cobb Cy Young Nap Lajoie Walter Johnson Christy Mathewson Willie Mays Hank Aaron Bob Feller Warren Spahn Tom Seaver Ted Williams Steve Carlton Greg Maddux Rickey Henderson ---
**Author:** ![Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shinna_Minna_Ma)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-part-one-the-inner-circle/772891/20 "2016-11-27T06:42:51Z")
Cy Young Babe Ruth Lou Gehrig Mickey Mantle Willy Mays Frank Robinson Brooks Robinson Stan Musial Yogi Berra Jim Palmer Ted Williams Jackie Robinson Tom Seaver Hank Aaron Joe Dimaggio I’d also like to see voting for managers. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-part-one-the-inner-circle/772891.md?page=2)