# The SDMB Baseball Hall of Fame Project, Part One: The Inner Circle **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** baseball-mlb\ **Created:** [November 24, 2016, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-part-one-the-inner-circle/772891 "2016-11-24T15:47:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Parthol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/dec6dc/32.png) [@Parthol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Parthol)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-part-one-the-inner-circle/772891/21 "2016-11-27T07:22:57Z")
Babe Ruth Willie Mays Ty Cobb Walter Johnson Barry Bonds Cy Young Hank Aaron Roger Clemens Honus Wagner Stan Musial Ted Williams Lou Gehrig Pedro Martinez Tris Speaker Tom Seaver Guys who would have been 16-20: Lefty Grove Greg Maddux Rogers Hornsby Ricky Henderson Mickey Mantle ---
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-part-one-the-inner-circle/772891/22 "2016-11-27T08:44:49Z")
Babe Ruth Barry Bonds Willie Mays Ted Williams Ty Cobb Honus Wagner Hank Aaron Tris Speaker Rogers Hornsby Stan Musial Roger Clemens Cy Young Walter Johnson Greg Maddux Randy Johnson ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-part-one-the-inner-circle/772891/23 "2016-11-28T17:27:14Z")
Bump. More votes please! I’m impressed at the range of choices so far, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-part-one-the-inner-circle/772891/24 "2016-11-28T17:39:46Z")
Babe Ruth Barry Bonds Willie Mays Ted Williams Ty Cobb Honus Wagner Rogers Hornsby Walter Johnson Hank Aaron Tris Speaker Lou Gehrig Rickey Henderson Christy Mathewson Stan Musial CY Young I would suggest doing a couple rounds of this. We can probably get 50+ in before any disagreement whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-part-one-the-inner-circle/772891/25 "2016-11-28T17:40:04Z")
Babe Ruth Ty Cobb Lou Gehrig Cy Young Walter Johnson Rogers Hornsby Christie Mathewson Grover Cleveland Alexander Warren Spahn Willie Mays Mickey Mantle Tom Seaver Joe Dimaggio Ted Williams Tris Speaker ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-part-one-the-inner-circle/772891/26 "2016-11-28T18:06:44Z")
Ted Williams Babe Ruth Barry Bonds Hank Aaron Willie Mays Ty Cobb Tris Speaker Honus Wagner Rickey Henderson Frank Robinson Cy Young Roger Clemens Nolan Ryan Walter Johnson Pedro Martinez I also went with 10 position players and 5 pitchers. Looks like Nolan Ryan is the only guy on my list not yet mentioned by anyone. Wish I could have fit Gehrig on there, but I like my list. ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-part-one-the-inner-circle/772891/27 "2016-11-28T18:55:52Z")
Ruth Honus Wagner Mays Cobb Ted Williams Walter Johnson Spahn Aaron Gehrig Morgan Ricky Henderson Grove Schmidt Bench Speaker ---
**Author:** ![Wilson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@Wilson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wilson)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-part-one-the-inner-circle/772891/28 "2016-11-28T20:24:25Z")
Babe Ruth Walter Johnson Hank Aaron Barry Bonds Willie Mays Lou Gehrig Lefty Grove Ted Williams Rogers Hornsby Honus Wagner Ty Cobb Jackie Robinson Stan Musial Oscar Charleston Mickey Mantle Yeah, I know pitchers are underrepresented. Pedro and Clemens just missed the cut. Side note: every time I do an exercise like this, I come out thinking that Stan Musial is better than I give him credit for. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-part-one-the-inner-circle/772891/29 "2016-11-28T21:09:49Z")
Babe Ruth Lou Gehrig Hank Aaron Tris Speaker Ty Cobb Ted Williams Honus Wagner Stan Musial Pete Rose Rogers Hornsby Cy Young Walter Johnson Randy Johnson Roger Clemens Mariano Rivera I know, I know: a closer? But relievers have become hugely instrumental in the game, and Rivera stands head and shoulders above the rest. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-part-one-the-inner-circle/772891/30 "2016-11-28T21:22:06Z")
Surprised with how little I’m seeing Jackie Robinson on these ballots. He’s there, but no where near where I thought he would be. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-part-one-the-inner-circle/772891/31 "2016-11-28T21:28:06Z")
Babe Ruth Hank Aaron Mickey Mantle Cy Young Walter Johnson Ty Cobb Barry Bonds Willie Mays Lou Gehrig Ted Williams Grover Cleveland Alexander Rickey Henderson Tom Seaver Greg Maddux Stan Musial ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-part-one-the-inner-circle/772891/32 "2016-11-28T21:31:59Z")
Are y’all serious … only two votes for Pete Rose ??? ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-part-one-the-inner-circle/772891/33 "2016-11-28T21:34:53Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > Are y’all serious … only two votes for Pete Rose ??? Sorry, but I don’t see Pete in the top 40, let alone the top 15. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-part-one-the-inner-circle/772891/34 "2016-11-28T21:40:17Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Sorry, but I don’t see Pete in the top 40, let alone the top 15. I knew that I’d wind up overlooking someone that I felt should be on my short list when I made it, so after coming up with a starter list, I went to [Baseball Reference’s list of lifetime Wins Over Replacement scores](http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/WAR_career.shtml), just to see if I was missing anyone. On that list, Rose only comes in at #65, in between Jeff Bagwell and Brooks Robinson. WAR certainly isn’t a perfect tool, but it did provide some enlightenment to me. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-part-one-the-inner-circle/772891/35 "2016-11-28T22:40:38Z")
Rose was a very fine player indeed. I saw him play in person probably seven or eight times and countless more times on TV, and there are few players from his time(s) that I remember more clearly, or enjoyed watching more. Mostly, he was a terrific singles hitter. He walked a pretty decent amount. He hit a bunch of doubles. And you might argue we have to cut him a little extra slack because most of his career was a down time for offense. And of course, he played forever. (Whether he should have or not is another question.) Anyway, that’s impressive. But when all is said and done, his career rests on getting on base and scoring runs…and he’s barely in the top 200 for on base percentage. In context, to name a few others from roughly his era, he’s about where Al Kaline, Henry Aaron, and Willie McCovey are, only of course they all hit for a much higher slugging percentage than Rose (.Aaron .555, McC .514, Kaline .480…Rose .409), and Kaline at least was a much better fielder. It’s hard to justify ranking Rose ahead of them, in my book. And there are lots of other hitters in similar situations. For me, bottom line: Hitting a ton of singles, drawing a good number of walks, and leading the league a few doubles makes you a valuable player. But not among the top ten or twelve to ever play the game. Just my 2c. ---
**Author:** ![Intelligently\_Designed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intelligently_designed/32/20957_2.png) [@Intelligently\_Designed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intelligently_Designed)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-part-one-the-inner-circle/772891/36 "2016-11-28T22:45:57Z")
Babe Ruth Ty Cobb Cy Young Rogers Hornsby Stan Musial Jackie Robinson Walter Johnson Ted Williams Lou Gehrig Hank Aaron Willie Mays Honus Wagner Mickey Mantle Tris Speaker Sandy Koufax ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-part-one-the-inner-circle/772891/37 "2016-11-28T22:48:00Z")
I thought about Pete Rose for a hot second and if I listed my top 25 he’d probably be there. Great player, great record, but not quite top 15 for me. Jackie Robinson, yeah maybe he should have been there in the Inner Circle. What his legacy means to MLB alone is definitely HOF worthy and top of that, he was an awesome player. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-part-one-the-inner-circle/772891/38 "2016-11-28T23:05:46Z")
> [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](#): > > Rose was a very fine player indeed. I saw him play in person probably seven or eight times and countless more times on TV, and there are few players from his time(s) that I remember more clearly, or enjoyed watching more. > > Mostly, he was a terrific singles hitter. He walked a pretty decent amount. He hit a bunch of doubles. And you might argue we have to cut him a little extra slack because most of his career was a down time for offense. And of course, he played forever. (Whether he should have or not is another question.) > > Anyway, that’s impressive. But when all is said and done, his career rests on getting on base and scoring runs…and he’s barely in the top 200 for on base percentage. In context, to name a few others from roughly his era, he’s about where Al Kaline, Henry Aaron, and Willie McCovey are, only of course they all hit for a much higher slugging percentage than Rose (.Aaron .555, McC .514, Kaline .480…Rose .409), and Kaline at least was a much better fielder. It’s hard to justify ranking Rose ahead of them, in my book. And there are lots of other hitters in similar situations. > > For me, bottom line: Hitting a ton of singles, drawing a good number of walks, and leading the league a few doubles makes you a valuable player. But not among the top ten or twelve to ever play the game. Just my 2c. On further review, I used McCovey in this example because he has the same OBP as Rose…but I’m not sure he’s actually “obviously better” the way Aaron is and I’d argue Kaline too. So I’ll withdraw his name… ---
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-part-one-the-inner-circle/772891/39 "2016-11-28T23:06:58Z")
Before I read any posts beyond #2, I’ll list my Inner Circle: Babe Ruth Ty Cobb Ted Williams Walter Johnson Christy Mathewson Willie Mays Henry Aaron Satchel Paige Stan Musial Bob Feller Nolan Ryan Pete Rose Roberto Clemente Rod Carew Cy Young ---
**Author:** ![janis\_and\_c0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/janis_and_c0/32/21_2.png) [@janis\_and\_c0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/janis_and_c0)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-part-one-the-inner-circle/772891/40 "2016-11-28T23:27:15Z")
Babe Ruth Ted Williams Joe DiMaggio Cy Young Christy Mathewson Micky Mantle Lou Gehrig Hank Aaron Honus Wagner Ty Cobb Jackie Robinson Stan Musial Satchel Paige Rogers Hornsby Sandy Koufax [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-part-one-the-inner-circle/772891.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-part-one-the-inner-circle/772891.md?page=3)