The SDMB Baseball Hall of Fame Project, Part One: The Inner Circle

The Game Room
21

Babe Ruth
Willie Mays
Ty Cobb
Walter Johnson
Barry Bonds
Cy Young
Hank Aaron
Roger Clemens
Honus Wagner
Stan Musial
Ted Williams
Lou Gehrig
Pedro Martinez
Tris Speaker
Tom Seaver

Guys who would have been 16-20:

Lefty Grove
Greg Maddux
Rogers Hornsby
Ricky Henderson
Mickey Mantle

22

Babe Ruth
Barry Bonds
Willie Mays
Ted Williams
Ty Cobb
Honus Wagner
Hank Aaron
Tris Speaker
Rogers Hornsby
Stan Musial
Roger Clemens
Cy Young
Walter Johnson
Greg Maddux
Randy Johnson

23

Bump. More votes please!

I’m impressed at the range of choices so far, actually.

24

Babe Ruth
Barry Bonds
Willie Mays
Ted Williams
Ty Cobb
Honus Wagner
Rogers Hornsby
Walter Johnson
Hank Aaron
Tris Speaker
Lou Gehrig
Rickey Henderson
Christy Mathewson
Stan Musial
CY Young

I would suggest doing a couple rounds of this. We can probably get 50+ in before any disagreement whatsoever.

25

Babe Ruth
Ty Cobb
Lou Gehrig
Cy Young
Walter Johnson
Rogers Hornsby
Christie Mathewson
Grover Cleveland Alexander
Warren Spahn
Willie Mays
Mickey Mantle
Tom Seaver
Joe Dimaggio
Ted Williams
Tris Speaker

26

Ted Williams
Babe Ruth
Barry Bonds
Hank Aaron
Willie Mays
Ty Cobb
Tris Speaker
Honus Wagner
Rickey Henderson
Frank Robinson
Cy Young
Roger Clemens
Nolan Ryan
Walter Johnson
Pedro Martinez

I also went with 10 position players and 5 pitchers. Looks like Nolan Ryan is the only guy on my list not yet mentioned by anyone. Wish I could have fit Gehrig on there, but I like my list.

27

Ruth
Honus Wagner
Mays
Cobb
Ted Williams
Walter Johnson
Spahn
Aaron
Gehrig
Morgan
Ricky Henderson
Grove
Schmidt
Bench
Speaker

28

Babe Ruth
Walter Johnson
Hank Aaron
Barry Bonds
Willie Mays
Lou Gehrig
Lefty Grove
Ted Williams
Rogers Hornsby
Honus Wagner
Ty Cobb
Jackie Robinson
Stan Musial
Oscar Charleston
Mickey Mantle

Yeah, I know pitchers are underrepresented. Pedro and Clemens just missed the cut.

Side note: every time I do an exercise like this, I come out thinking that Stan Musial is better than I give him credit for.

29

Babe Ruth
Lou Gehrig
Hank Aaron
Tris Speaker
Ty Cobb
Ted Williams
Honus Wagner
Stan Musial
Pete Rose
Rogers Hornsby
Cy Young
Walter Johnson
Randy Johnson
Roger Clemens
Mariano Rivera

I know, I know: a closer? But relievers have become hugely instrumental in the game, and Rivera stands head and shoulders above the rest.

30

Surprised with how little I’m seeing Jackie Robinson on these ballots. He’s there, but no where near where I thought he would be.

31

Babe Ruth
Hank Aaron
Mickey Mantle
Cy Young
Walter Johnson
Ty Cobb
Barry Bonds
Willie Mays
Lou Gehrig
Ted Williams
Grover Cleveland Alexander
Rickey Henderson
Tom Seaver
Greg Maddux
Stan Musial

32

Are y’all serious … only two votes for Pete Rose ???

33

Sorry, but I don’t see Pete in the top 40, let alone the top 15.

34

I knew that I’d wind up overlooking someone that I felt should be on my short list when I made it, so after coming up with a starter list, I went to Baseball Reference’s list of lifetime Wins Over Replacement scores, just to see if I was missing anyone. On that list, Rose only comes in at #65, in between Jeff Bagwell and Brooks Robinson.

WAR certainly isn’t a perfect tool, but it did provide some enlightenment to me.

35

Rose was a very fine player indeed. I saw him play in person probably seven or eight times and countless more times on TV, and there are few players from his time(s) that I remember more clearly, or enjoyed watching more.

Mostly, he was a terrific singles hitter. He walked a pretty decent amount. He hit a bunch of doubles. And you might argue we have to cut him a little extra slack because most of his career was a down time for offense. And of course, he played forever. (Whether he should have or not is another question.)

Anyway, that’s impressive. But when all is said and done, his career rests on getting on base and scoring runs…and he’s barely in the top 200 for on base percentage. In context, to name a few others from roughly his era, he’s about where Al Kaline, Henry Aaron, and Willie McCovey are, only of course they all hit for a much higher slugging percentage than Rose (.Aaron .555, McC .514, Kaline .480…Rose .409), and Kaline at least was a much better fielder. It’s hard to justify ranking Rose ahead of them, in my book. And there are lots of other hitters in similar situations.

For me, bottom line: Hitting a ton of singles, drawing a good number of walks, and leading the league a few doubles makes you a valuable player. But not among the top ten or twelve to ever play the game. Just my 2c.

36

Babe Ruth
Ty Cobb
Cy Young
Rogers Hornsby
Stan Musial
Jackie Robinson
Walter Johnson
Ted Williams
Lou Gehrig
Hank Aaron
Willie Mays
Honus Wagner
Mickey Mantle
Tris Speaker
Sandy Koufax

37

I thought about Pete Rose for a hot second and if I listed my top 25 he’d probably be there. Great player, great record, but not quite top 15 for me.

Jackie Robinson, yeah maybe he should have been there in the Inner Circle. What his legacy means to MLB alone is definitely HOF worthy and top of that, he was an awesome player.

38

On further review, I used McCovey in this example because he has the same OBP as Rose…but I’m not sure he’s actually “obviously better” the way Aaron is and I’d argue Kaline too. So I’ll withdraw his name…

39

Before I read any posts beyond #2, I’ll list my Inner Circle:

Babe Ruth
Ty Cobb
Ted Williams
Walter Johnson
Christy Mathewson

Willie Mays
Henry Aaron
Satchel Paige
Stan Musial
Bob Feller

Nolan Ryan
Pete Rose
Roberto Clemente
Rod Carew
Cy Young

40

Babe Ruth
Ted Williams
Joe DiMaggio
Cy Young
Christy Mathewson

Micky Mantle
Lou Gehrig
Hank Aaron
Honus Wagner
Ty Cobb

Jackie Robinson
Stan Musial
Satchel Paige
Rogers Hornsby
Sandy Koufax